Lets Ponder the Patriots Deflationgate Issue

[Miller]

I only like this because of the JG comment..

I have no beef with you bud, just debating football. That's what the board is for!

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

The refs said they checked all the balls before the and they all were compliant

The Pats then had possession of all the balls before the game

The balls were tested at halftime and all the NE were illegal and all the INDY were still legal

The balls were re-inflated and stayed legally inflated for the rest of the game

Those are the facts and that is why the NFL is looking into the matter. This is the last thing the league wanted going into the SB, but if they ignored it, it would be so much worse. All the other stuff is just semantics and conjecture.

The only issue is finding out who, how and when the balls were deflated. They may never get the whole story, but if the team stonewalls that is just as damning as an admission. It is only a few people that could have access to the balls. It's not that complicated.

That is so on the money but we have a few posting here who cant see it. And they call anybody who isnt in outright denial, haters and jealous of the Patriots. Its really comical.

 

[Rogah]

The only issue is finding out who, how and when the balls were deflated. They may never get the whole story, but if the team stonewalls that is just as damning as an admission.

Who is stonewalling? By all reports, the Patriots are cooperating fully. It's not their fault the league is dragging their legs. Heck, the Patriots discovered and willing submitted the video of the ball attendant walking to the field and stopping to take a whiz.

 

[Rogah]

That is so on the money but we have a few posting here who cant see it. And they call anybody who isnt in outright denial, haters and jealous of the Patriots. Its really comical.

You're not a jealous hater if you think the Patriots are guilty.

But you are a jealous hater if you think they should get anything worse than a speeding ticket.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Who is stonewalling? By all reports, the Patriots are cooperating fully. It's not their fault the league is dragging their legs. Heck, the Patriots discovered and willing submitted the video of the ball attendant walking to the field and stopping to take a whiz.

How do we know that while they say they are cooperating fulling they arent lying about things?

 

[Rogah]

How do we know that while they say they are cooperating fulling they arent lying about things?

The gave up the video they themselves discovered and submitted any employee who was asked to a league interview. What exactly else are they supposed to do?

 

[Doomsday101]

NFL is dragging their feet, they will continue to do so until after the SB. They are not going to interfere with the big game. Once it is done I expect players and coaches will be brought in to answer question but they will not do it before the game

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

The gave up the video they themselves discovered and submitted any employee who was asked to a league interview. What exactly else are they supposed to do?

That certainly gives the appearance of being forthright, but its still possible they could lie. I mean if we're gonna question everything else about this entire scenario its only fair to ask all of the questions IMO.

 

[dogberry]

Can the league sanction an employee of a team for refusing to speak with the league?

 

[BoysFan4ever]

NFL is dragging their feet, they will continue to do so until after the SB. They are not going to interfere with the big game. Once it is done I expect players and coaches will be brought in to answer question but they will not do it before the game

 

[JJHLH1]

My opinion is that the Patriots have been caught cheating (again), and they've been using deflated balls for a long time, as suspected by other teams. It would be mighty unlucky for the Patriots to get caught using deflated footballs on their first attempt.

We know the Patriots have an exceptionally low fumble rate, which magically began in 2007, the year teams were first allowed to bring their own balls on the road. Prior to 2007 the Patriots fumbled MORE than the average team, which is what you would expect for a team that plays outdoors in bad weather. And strangely, the low Patriot fumble rate doesn't apply to special teams, which use a different set of footballs than the offense. A deflated football would actually hurt the kicking game.

Some people have argued this doesn't mean anything, but it certainly looks suspicious:

1. Outlier fumble rate.
2. Outlier started same time as new rule.
3. Rule lobbied for by team with outlier fumble rate.
4. Team caught with deflated footballs, a plausible causal connection.
5. Team has a fumble rate split from offense to special teams as would be implied by causal connection.

Finally, we know a Patriots' ball boy was alone in a locked bathroom with the balls for 90 seconds. A news reporter has demonstrated he can deflate 12 footballs by 2 psi in 40 seconds:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...-soften-12-balls-40-seconds-article-1.2094280

With their past conviction of cheating, the Patriots lose the benefit of the doubt. I fully expect the NFL to come down hard on the Pats. For their previous cheating in 2007 there were $750,000 in fines and the loss of a 1st round draft pick. Obviously the punishment will be much more severe this time since it failed to deter their bad behavior.

 

[Nightman]

Who is stonewalling? By all reports, the Patriots are cooperating fully. It's not their fault the league is dragging their legs. Heck, the Patriots discovered and willing submitted the video of the ball attendant walking to the field and stopping to take a whiz.

I said IF they stonewalled. That would be the only way the League couldn't get the bottom of this. It's not as complicated as we have made it out to be all week. There are only a few guys with access to the balls after the refs checked them.

As far as cooperating completely, the Pats have gone from:
We have never even considered how the balls are inflated, how silly To
The change in temperature caused the drop in pressure to
The vigorous rubbing and scuffing of the balls created a false pressure reading to
The balls were delivered to the refs under-inflated and the refs never checked

 

[Nirvana]

I lean in the direction that the ball boy deflated the 11 balls in the bathroom and that this is a repeat of the USC/Lane Kiffin story a couple of years ago. The ball boy takes the fall.

 

[Rogah]

That certainly gives the appearance of being forthright, but its still possible they could lie. I mean if we're gonna question everything else about this entire scenario its only fair to ask all of the questions IMO.

Translation: "I am going to assume they are guilty of stonewalling even though there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that they have done anything but be 100% cooperative."

 

[Rogah]

With their past conviction of cheating, the Patriots lose the benefit of the doubt. I fully expect the NFL to come down hard on the Pats. For their previous cheating in 2007 there were $750,000 in fines and the loss of a 1st round draft pick. Obviously the punishment will be much more severe this time since it failed to deter their bad behavior.

Why do you assume the punishment will be so much more severe?

If a guy robs a bank and goes to jail for 5 years and then 7 years later gets caught speeding 10 MPH over the limit, they don't send him back to jail. They give him a $100 just like they would for you and me.

 

[DFWJC]

The refs said they checked all the balls before the and they all were compliant

The Pats then had possession of all the balls before the game

The balls were tested at halftime and all the NE were illegal and all the INDY were still legal

The balls were re-inflated and stayed legally inflated for the rest of the game

Those are the facts and that is why the NFL is looking into the matter. This is the last thing the league wanted going into the SB, but if they ignored it, it would be so much worse. All the other stuff is just semantics and conjecture.

The only issue is finding out who, how and when the balls were deflated. They may never get the whole story, but if the team stonewalls that is just as damning as an admission. It is only a few people that could have access to the balls. It's not that complicated.

Yep.
That sums it up.
(I suppose...though I didn't think the Pats also had the Indy balls before the game)

The investigation is to find out why these facts took place and if there was purposeful intent to break the rules.

Some will draw their conclusion ahead of time and some will not. It's their right, of course.

But,yes, I think that lays out the basics.

 

[JJHLH1]

Why do you assume the punishment will be so much more severe?

If a guy robs a bank and goes to jail for 5 years and then 7 years later gets caught speeding 10 MPH over the limit, they don't send him back to jail. They give him a $100 just like they would for you and me.

I think the punishment will be more severe because it goes directly to the integrity of the game. Altering the balls after they have been inspected and signed off by the officials is a major infraction, worse in my mind than Spygate. Plus, it's their second offense. If Sean Payton was suspended for a year for player bounties which he had no direct involvement with, and he had no prior record, I look for a long suspension of either Belichick or Brady.

 

[Rogah]

I think the punishment will be more severe because it goes directly to the integrity of the game. Altering the balls after they have been inspected and signed off by the officials is a major infraction, worse in my mind than Spygate. Plus, it's their second offense.

Well, I'll ask you the question I have asked many others in here and no one has answered:

The Minnesota Vikings were caught tampering with balls earlier this season by warming them on the sideline (which is blatantly illegal) and as punishment they got a letter of warning. If a first offense merits a letter of warning, then what should a second offense merit?

If you're really concerned about competitive fairness and integrity of the game, you would not want one team to be severely punished for something that another team got caught doing and got nothing but a letter of warning.

 

[Miller]

Well, I'll ask you the question I have asked many others in here and no one has answered:

The Minnesota Vikings were caught tampering with balls earlier this season by warming them on the sideline (which is blatantly illegal) and as punishment they got a letter of warning. If a first offense merits a letter of warning, then what should a second offense merit?

If you're really concerned about competitive fairness and integrity of the game, you would not want one team to be severely punished for something that another team got caught doing and got nothing but a letter of warning.

True!! And there is this ....

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=12244290


"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," Blake said. "'Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard. Everybody puts the pin in and lets just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat.

"So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

 

[Nightman]

Why do you assume the punishment will be so much more severe?

If a guy robs a bank and goes to jail for 5 years and then 7 years later gets caught speeding 10 MPH over the limit, they don't send him back to jail. They give him a $100 just like they would for you and me.

Apples and doughnuts comparison. Whether you think it's a minor violation or not, the League looks it as cheating. The NFL should have a zero tolerance policy with NE for cheating/intentionally skirting the rules because of their history. Seven years is not a long time and all the major players have remained the same, even Josh McDaniels is back(funny DEN got in trouble when he was there).

Even Josh Gordon is looking at a year suspension for drinking alcohol. If the League thought DAL or WAS violated the salary cap again they would also get hammered.