Long term thinking in a short term game

[CATCH17]

The Cowboys are their own worst enemy. They stupidly inflate their own players value with reckless public commentary and completely lack any semblance of transition planning from a very good player by trying to obtain some exit value for that player via a trade.

The Cowboys often pay good players top talent contracts and continuously find themselves with less than starting caliber talent on the depth chart behind them. The top heavy roster is starting to show signs of becoming a problem and the strategy remains the same.

Coach offers a good divergence from the just pay them strategy. Franchise Dak, bring in a quality FA QB who will do a 1 yr deal and draft or sign a developmental QB. Players that want things their way should only be allowed to get their way elsewhere. Zeke and Lawrence are two good examples of players that were overpaid and wanted to do things according their plan. That, so far, has not worked out great for the Cowboys considering what it has cost them.

Desperate teams with a lot of cap space make some highly speculative decisions. Maybe the Cowboys can find another Minnesota out there to help them move a player and get some significant draft capital in exchange.

I think the Colts are the only team that would possibly compete with us for Dak’s services.

I think the Patriots could get involved as long as they don’t have to give up a draft pick.

That is why I think letting Dak hit the open market is a huge win for Dallas regardless of the outcome.

I just don’t see Dak being in high demand for his price tag and I’d like to see Dallas compete with someone besides themselves.

 

[Jake]

I agree with everything you’re saying but I do think if you dial 1 800 Quarterback now days you can find some quality as opposed to back then. I think QBs are just far more prepared for the NFL now days coming out of college and if you put most of these guys in an optimal environment then they can give you 20ish + TDs and 15 or under INTs minimum.

Time will tell about Haskins and Jones (2019).

2018 - Rosen
2017 - Trubisky
2016 - Lynch
2015 - Mariota
2014 - Bortles
2013 - Manuel
2012 - Weeden
2011 - Locker
2010 - Bradford

Every year there's (at least) one first round bust from the QB Store™.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I understand and agree. Check out some of Cole McDonald's games on YouTube. Kid can make most throws.

He can. But can't they all? Don't you have to be able to make all the throws to make it to college especially that competition?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think the Colts are the only team that would possibly compete with us for Dak’s services.

I think the Patriots could get involved as long as they don’t have to give up a draft pick.

That is why I think letting Dak hit the open market is a huge win for Dallas regardless of the outcome.

I just don’t see Dak being in high demand for his price tag and I’d like to see Dallas compete with someone besides themselves.

I don't think there's a big market but I do think there are 2 or 3 teams that would give Dak 30 million.

 

[CATCH17]

Time will tell about Haskins and Jones (2019).

2018 - Rosen
2017 - Trubisky
2016 - Lynch
2015 - Mariota
2014 - Bortles
2013 - Manuel
2012 - Weeden
2011 - Locker
2010 - Bradford

Every year there's (at least) one first round bust from the QB Store™.

Yeah it’s fine.. Just keep drafting.. Heck draft 2 of them. Busts are at every position.

 

[CATCH17]

I don't think there's a big market but I do think there are 2 or 3 teams that would give Dak 30 million.

I do too. I think 30 million is more then fair.. We know Dak wants more then that and we know he wants a short term contract.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I don't think there's a big market but I do think there are 2 or 3 teams that would give Dak 30 million.

More than 3 teams would easily give Dak 30 million.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I do too. I think 30 million is more then fair.. We know Dak wants more then that and we know he wants a short term contract.

I don't know if he wants more but it definitely seems he wants a short team deal. I think its fair to ask for what Goff and Wentz got. If he wants 34 or 35 the deal should be done. And it was reported that's exactly what he asked for but they didn't want to give it to him. Now they want to and he turned it down so chances are that's probably where they end up.

 

[CATCH17]

I don't know if he wants more but it definitely seems he wants a short team deal. I think its fair to ask for what Goff and Wentz got. If he wants 34 or 35 the deal should be done. And it was reported that's exactly what he asked for but they didn't want to give it to him. Now they want to and he turned it down so chances are that's probably where they end up.

They said they offered him a top 5 contract at his position.

I think he has been offered 34 million on a 6 or 7 year contract and the years are what they don’t agree on.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

More than 3 teams would easily give Dak 30 million.

I personally don't think so. I think a bunch of teams would take him but the blueprint has been shown that to contend in this league you need probably a cheap running back and a cheap quarterback. Its my Zeke argument. I don't think many of teams would take on Zeke's contract because I feel the blueprint is to draft a running back in the later rounds and use that money elsewhere.

Same thing happened to Kirk Cousins....the only team that would've gave him that contract was a team that needed to win now. Its a small list of teams who need to win now, can take on that type of contract and needs a quarterback.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I personally don't think so. I think a bunch of teams would take him but the blueprint has been shown that to contend in this league you need probably a cheap running back and a cheap quarterback. Its my Zeke argument. I don't think many of teams would take on Zeke's contract because I feel the blueprint is to draft a running back in the later rounds and use that money elsewhere.

Same thing happened to Kirk Cousins....the only team that would've gave him that contract was a team that needed to win now. Its a small list of teams who need to win now, can take on that type of contract and needs a quarterback.

I think teams like the Dolphins, Titans, Falcons, Saints, Bears, Lions, Jaguars, Buccaneers and several others would give Dak $30 million to go play for them.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

They said they offered him a top 5 contract at his position.

I think he has been offered 34 million on a 6 or 7 year contract and the years are what they don’t agree on.

Well they are going to say a bunch of things. They can say they offered him 35 to 40 million a year but if they can get from under the contract than its a useless deal.

If I had to take a wild guess.....I'd say they want to give him a 34 million dollar deal for 6 years so they can get creative with some contracts and move money around. From everything I've read Dak essentially wants to bet himself again after 4 years and get another contract. Seems they aren't off on the yearly money they are off on the guarantees and the years.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think teams like the Dolphins, Titans, Falcons, Saints, Bears, Lions, Jaguars, Buccaneers and several others would give Dak $30 million to go play for them.

Naw I don't. Titans got Tannehill.....I'd take Dak over him but he costs them nothing. Not sure if his contract is up yet. Falcons are still all in on Ryan, Saints are about to hit a hitch on salary. Payton may elect to go with what they have or draft a guy. They're young enough to do so. Lions still all in on Stafford.

Bears, Jags and Bucc's are 3 teams on my list that would do it but it depends on if they drafted guys this year which they very well could. List could get any smaller.

 

[DHCBF66]

The stumbling block in getting this QB deal done seems to be the term of the contract and the Cowboys do not want to find themselves back here again in 4 years. Prescott is young enough that he will most likely get another contract and they evidently fear he will improve and deliver and they will be at his mercy and the mercy of a QB league gone wild.

Well, what did SF do when they had Montana, GB when they had Favre, NE when they had Brady and KC with Smith? Got the replacement before they needed him.

This seems very simple to me in this rags to riches to rags league and windows of opportunity. Where was SF in 2018? 4-12, second worst record in the NFC and in 2019? 13-3, best record in the NFC and in the SB. One year, two different teams. Will they be able to hold that team together? Probably not but who cares? They took that one to the Big Dance.

If they're concerned about the solution with the next contract with this QB, don't be, don't even consider another contract with him. They hired a QB oriented HC, make his assignment to find the next franchise QB before this QB's contract expires because he's hitting the bricks before or when it expires. That is his priority #2.

This keeping the family together thinking has no place with successful teams. If the Niners could part with Montana, Rice and Lott and GB with Favre and NE willing to trade Brady, long term thinking has no place in today's NFL. View every player, including the Witten's, as passing through and a hired gun. Every player is expendable and replaceable by the team, not on their own.

Accept that their not going to keep the band together, it's going to be like Poco, not often the same players from album to album but great players along the way.

Now, get this done. Get all of the players either gone and replaced or renewed and the team set for the season. No hold out distractions like they had last year, get the team ready for the season, a season of nothing but the game of football, not the business of football.

There is no team in all of sports with built in opportunities for distractions like the Cowboys. The team was inconsistent last season and underachieved because of distractions. The job of any FO is to limit those, not create them. Get the football team all about football.

When was NE willing to trade Brady?

 

[CouchCoach]

When was NE willing to trade Brady?

On his last contract because Belichick didn't want to pay him what he deserved as the best QB and had drafted Garoppolo to take his place. It was his MO and Brady knew there wasn't any player he wouldn't trade at the top of their game. Brady struck a deal that he would take 15M and Garoppolo would take a hike and Kraft had the compromise he wanted and Belichick had want he wanted, cap space.

Brady probably would have ended up back at home in SF instead of Garoppolo but they weren't much of a team and he knew his legacy was in NE. What would be interesting would be for SF to trade Garoppolo back to NE and sign Brady in FA.

 

[DHCBF66]

On his last contract because Belichick didn't want to pay him what he deserved as the best QB and had drafted Garoppolo to take his place. It was his MO and Brady knew there wasn't any player he wouldn't trade at the top of their game. Brady struck a deal that he would take 15M and Garoppolo would take a hike and Kraft had the compromise he wanted and Belichick had want he wanted, cap space.

Brady probably would have ended up back at home in SF instead of Garoppolo but they weren't much of a team and he knew his legacy was in NE. What would be interesting would be for SF to trade Garoppolo back to NE and sign Brady in FA.

I live in Ma 45 minutes from Gillette Stadium and that is not what happened at all. Jimmy G was drafted to replace an aging Brady and since Brady showed no signs of slowing down at the time he took less $$$ to help keep the Pats competitive and Jimmy G was traded to recoup the 2nd rounder they spent on him. Brady values championships over $$$ plain and simple. If he wanted the $$$ there would have been teams lined up to sign him for BIG $$$.

 

[CouchCoach]

I live in Ma 45 minutes from Gillette Stadium and that is not what happened at all. Jimmy G was drafted to replace an aging Brady and since Brady showed no signs of slowing down at the time he took less $$$ to help keep the Pats competitive and Jimmy G was traded to recoup the 2nd rounder they spent on him. Brady values championships over $$$ plain and simple. If he wanted the $$$ there would have been teams lined up to sign him for BIG $$$.

And that differs from what I wrote just how? Did I say Brady was about the money, just the opposite. He was willing to take less to stay in NE for his legacy.

I don't care if you live in the damned stadium, that was what was reported and Kraft made the comment that "Tommy didn't have much of a choice if he wanted to stay". He took a lot less than fair market value for the best QB in the game.

Teams move on from QB's if they feel they're declining or going to be too expensive to keep. Brady fixed the second part of that and continued to play at a high level.

 

[gjkoeppen]

The stumbling block in getting this QB deal done seems to be the term of the contract and the Cowboys do not want to find themselves back here again in 4 years. Prescott is young enough that he will most likely get another contract and they evidently fear he will improve and deliver and they will be at his mercy and the mercy of a QB league gone wild.

Well, what did SF do when they had Montana, GB when they had Favre, NE when they had Brady and KC with Smith? Got the replacement before they needed him.

This seems very simple to me in this rags to riches to rags league and windows of opportunity. Where was SF in 2018? 4-12, second worst record in the NFC and in 2019? 13-3, best record in the NFC and in the SB. One year, two different teams. Will they be able to hold that team together? Probably not but who cares? They took that one to the Big Dance.

If they're concerned about the solution with the next contract with this QB, don't be, don't even consider another contract with him. They hired a QB oriented HC, make his assignment to find the next franchise QB before this QB's contract expires because he's hitting the bricks before or when it expires. That is his priority #2.

This keeping the family together thinking has no place with successful teams. If the Niners could part with Montana, Rice and Lott and GB with Favre and NE willing to trade Brady, long term thinking has no place in today's NFL. View every player, including the Witten's, as passing through and a hired gun. Every player is expendable and replaceable by the team, not on their own.

Accept that their not going to keep the band together, it's going to be like Poco, not often the same players from album to album but great players along the way.

Now, get this done. Get all of the players either gone and replaced or renewed and the team set for the season. No hold out distractions like they had last year, get the team ready for the season, a season of nothing but the game of football, not the business of football.

There is no team in all of sports with built in opportunities for distractions like the Cowboys. The team was inconsistent last season and underachieved because of distractions. The job of any FO is to limit those, not create them. Get the football team all about football.

There's a lot of foolishness here. Your little fairy tale you say every player is expendable so the implication is no team should ever resign a player, no matter how good he is because like you say they are all expendable and this is what good teams do. You say they always draft replacements so they can step in. Again you say that's what the good teams do. Now using the Cowboys they have 25 UFA and yes they aren't all absolute needs, but 6 of them are starters. My point here is tell me all of the teams that have drafted starters in ALL 7 rounds of the draft. So not every player is expendable because there are usually more contracts up than there are draft picks so some have to be resigned. Now as you say the good teams do this but the good teams draft at the bottom of the draft which means all the best players in each round are gone before their pick.

Now lets look at a your examples. Favre, who a couple of times after a season ended said he was going to retire only a short time later decide that he was going to play again. The packers drafted Rodgers and when his original contract was up he said he wouldn't resign again to sit so the packers resigned him and in Favre's 18th season they traded him so Rodgers could start. Same thing with Montana and Young. Montana traded after 15 seasons in SF and Young the younger QB wanting his chance or he would sign with another team. And that brings us to Rice. After 16 seasons in SF they moved on from him. All three of your examples are players that left their teams at the very tail end of their careers not how you made it sound like it was during their prime. Also none of those 3 did anything after leaving their original teams.

Lastly tell me all of the distractions during the last season that caused the players to not be able to concentrate on football?
.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

There's a lot of foolishness here. Your little fairy tale you say every player is expendable so the implication is no team should ever resign a player, no matter how good he is because like you say they are all expendable and this is what good teams do. You say they always draft replacements so they can step in. Again you say that's what the good teams do. Now using the Cowboys they have 25 UFA and yes they aren't all absolute needs, but 6 of them are starters. My point here is tell me all of the teams that have drafted starters in ALL 7 rounds of the draft. So not every player is expendable because there are usually more contracts up than there are draft picks so some have to be resigned. Now as you say the good teams do this but the good teams draft at the bottom of the draft which means all the best players in each round are gone before their pick.

Now lets look at a your examples. Favre, who a couple of times after a season ended said he was going to retire only a short time later decide that he was going to play again. The packers drafted Rodgers and when his original contract was up he said he wouldn't resign again to sit so the packers resigned him and in Favre's 18th season they traded him so Rodgers could start. Same thing with Montana and Young. Montana traded after 15 seasons in SF and Young the younger QB wanting his chance or he would sign with another team. And that brings us to Rice. After 16 seasons in SF they moved on from him. All three of your examples are players that left their teams at the very tail end of their careers not how you made it sound like it was during their prime. Also none of those 3 did anything after leaving their original teams.

Lastly tell me all of the distractions during the last season that caused the players to not be able to concentrate on football?
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Having a contingency plan for twilight players is a good idea. Having a contingency plan for players that want big time contracts is a good idea. If an organization doesn't have a contingency plan for a player that wants a big time contract, then that organization is allowing that player to push them into a corner. The Pats traded Jamie Collins before letting his contract end, because they felt he wanted too much.

All well laid plans don't pan out sometimes. If Mike White would have turned into something then we could have possibly used him to drive the price down on Dak. So its a good train of thought. If Dak wants three years now re-signing him would give Dallas two good years to find his replacement. If you want to be a topnotch organization you always have to think ahead. No player plays forever.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Having a contingency plan for twilight players is a good idea. Having a contingency plan for players that want big time contracts is a good idea. If an organization doesn't have a contingency plan for a player that wants a big time contract, then that organization is allowing that player to push them into a corner. The Pats traded Jamie Collins before letting his contract end, because they felt he wanted too much.

All well laid plans don't pan out sometimes. If Mike White would have turned into something then we could have possibly used him to drive the price down on Dak. So its a good train of thought. If Dak wants three years now re-signing him would give Dallas two good years to find his replacement. If you want to be a topnotch organization you always have to think ahead. No player plays forever.

I agree that teams have to have backup plans, but the idea that because a player produces and then wants to get paid on his new contract is reason to just move on to the next man is foolishness. Here's the easy explanation There are 22 positions not including special teams, kicker and punter and long snapper and teams have 7 rounds in the draft. No teams hits it on all 7 rounds. Most teams have anywhere from 1/3 to almost half of their roster up for contracts every year. There's not enough picks to draft all of the replacements even if a team hits on all 7 picks. If you say sign free agents well if they're as good as the players that want to get paid that you moved on from it's a bidding war and you'll probably end up paying almost as much as the player you let go with no guarantee they will do as well on your team. There are players that are head and shoulders above any replacement they may have and it makes sense to resign those players. Otherwise the team will be in a constant rebuilding stage and get nowhere fast. No team has backup plans that replaces every position with really good backups. Now talking about the QB position, if Prescott in continually improving just how is that possible future QB that is a backup going to get in regular season games to progress.
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