CFZ Looking at Dak's WRs. has he really been helped?

[cnuball21]

Yup. Dak didnt "elevate" them though. LOL. Tell me. How did any of these guys do after leaving Dallas?

Dak isn't capable of that. Outside of Brady, and maybe Mahomes (who has gotten a decent amount of help), I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone who has.

Obviously the better the QB the more you want them to be able to help but even the good ones need talent around them. When I look around the league at a lot of the top QBs and playoff contenders, they have better WR rooms than we do...plain and simple.

 

[doomsday9084]

This is strange. In the universe I'm in, Amare Cooper has played most of the season with a back up QB on the Browns and he is:
14th in yards and 6th in TD's. Are we just forgetting about Amare? Does he not exist in the universe this thread was made in? Does someone think that Jacoby Brisset is carrying Cooper?

I have come to realize that I don't hate Dak. He is a fine, but not great QB. I hate all of the excuses that seem to float around him and that colors my vision of his play.

 

[cnuball21]

This is strange. In the universe I'm in, Amare Cooper has played most of the season with a back up QB on the Browns and he is:
14th in yards and 6th in TD's. Are we just forgetting about Amare? Does he not exist in the universe this thread was made in? Does someone think that Jacoby Brisset is carrying Cooper?

I have come to realize that I don't hate Dak. He is a fine, but not great QB. I hate all of the excuses that seem to float around him and that colors my vision of his play.

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make here? He's in a similar boat. He's having a nice year statistically just like Lamb is but they have ZERO threats outside of him.

Like playing the Cowboys, if you can stop there run and give Cooper attention they'll struggle to move the ball through the air.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Brown got significant playing time with Gallup out. With him back his snaps have reduced.


Also I am shocked that Gallup is the guy who Dak has played most with. That's fairly surprising.

Fair enough. I hate him being so underused.

 

[jay94]

Last years group was way, way better when healthy. Like, not even close to this years group.

I wasn't calling out a single receiver earlier clearly TO was the best, but a group last year may of been the teams best ever corps.

 

[G2]

Most of those WRs are meh

 

[cnuball21]

I wasn't calling out a single receiver earlier clearly TO was the best, but a group last year may of been the teams best ever corps.

Yah, last years group was special IMO.

 

[CouchCoach]

If a receiver is open and the QB either misses him or fails to deliver the ball, who is that on?

Prescott gets his fair share of easy completions with separation.

The key word with him is the same as it always has been, consistency. That's what separates the really good QB's from the good ones. They have fewer bad throws.

However, this is not all Prescott's fault. His owner wants to have his own Allen, Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert or Lawrence QB and that is just not who Prescott is going to be. He has improved himself since he entered the league but he is not taking it to their level.

 

[cnuball21]

If a receiver is open and the QB either misses him or fails to deliver the ball, who is that on?

Prescott gets his fair share of easy completions with separation.

The key word with him is the same as it always has been, consistency. That's what separates the really good QB's from the good ones. They have fewer bad throws.

However, this is not all Prescott's fault. His owner wants to have his own Allen, Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert or Lawrence QB and that is just not who Prescott is going to be. He has improved himself since he entered the league but he is not taking it to their level.

That’s fair, Dak has to do his job and see the field and accurately deliver the football but that’s not the purpose of the thread. Taking the QB out of it, the Cowboys are closer to the bottom of the list for WRs for NFC playoff contenders than the top.

And if you want to talk about the QBs you listed (outside of Lawrence) then you should probably acknowledge all of them have better WR options than Dak.

Also - from an accuracy perspective, Daks EPA+CPOE / play is 8th in the NFL.

 

[Aftershock]

How about you look at his WR Corps? They have been above average for sure compared to the rest of the league. Other QB's would kill for the WR corps that Dak has had:

2016-17: Witten, Dez, Beasley, T. Williams - arguably top 10
2019: Gallup, Cooper, Cobb, T. Austin - arguably top 10
2020-1: CD, Cooper, Gallup, Schultz - Top 5 without a DOUBT

 

[cnuball21]

How about you look at his WR Corps? They have been above average for sure compared to the rest of the league. Other QB's would kill for the WR corps that Dak has had:

2016-17: Witten, Dez, Beasley, T. Williams - arguably top 10
2019: Gallup, Cooper, Cobb, T. Austin - arguably top 10
2020-1: CD, Cooper, Gallup, Schultz - Top 5 without a DOUBT

We’re talking about this year where it’s not above average.

 

[Aftershock]

We’re talking about this year where it’s not above average.

The OP listed out all of Dak's WR's through the years.

 

[cnuball21]

The OP listed out all of Dak's WR's through the years.

Oh gotcha. The recent focus has been on current year.

Yea, last year was great. That was the only year I’d argue we had a playoff caliber WR room. The years before we had a few average groups some being slightly above average.

 

[CouchCoach]

That’s fair, Dak has to do his job and see the field and accurately deliver the football but that’s not the purpose of the thread. Taking the QB out of it, the Cowboys are closer to the bottom of the list for WRs for NFC playoff contenders than the top.

And if you want to talk about the QBs you listed (outside of Lawrence) then you should probably acknowledge all of them have better WR options than Dak.

Also - from an accuracy perspective, Daks EPA+CPOE / play is 8th in the NFL.

I do not use stats for much since I have eyes and watch the players and I would not put Prescott at their level and there are variables on every team.

No team has a better tandem than the Dolphins but there are other ways to keep the QB from finding them.

Prescott has a better RB duo than any of those QB's and that should afford him more open WR's.

And I am going to make an assumption here. Prescott was just fine with letting Cooper go after he didn't play the company line, just as Prescott was the same with Beasley after he defended the WR's for being NFL open. And I specifically went back and watched what Cooper was referring to and he was dead on.

Prescott insinuated that Lamb was at fault earlier in the year because that's what he does, deflect blame until he can't any longer then he does what he did after the HOU game, I promise to not to that because I hate picks too. Anything to turn the heat down.

But other than playing it safer with checkdowns to backs and TE's, how is he going to do that? One thing every one of those QB's I mentioned shares, along with Brady and Rodgers, the willingness to thread the needle sometimes barely larger than the ball and selective amnesia when it doesn't go well. It mystifies me how accurate they can be.

But I think there is a trait in all of those QB's that Prescott does not have, confidence. He might talk a good game but I watched him at Miss St and since he became the DC QB and that mouth breather look after a pick is all about shaky confidence. The man has been living the dream but I think that comes with a few fitful nights of sleep, regardless of the mattress.

 

[cnuball21]

I do not use stats for much since I have eyes and watch the players and I would not put Prescott at their level and there are variables on every team.

No team has a better tandem than the Dolphins but there are other ways to keep the QB from finding them.

Prescott has a better RB duo than any of those QB's and that should afford him more open WR's.

And I am going to make an assumption here. Prescott was just fine with letting Cooper go after he didn't play the company line, just as Prescott was the same with Beasley after he defended the WR's for being NFL open. And I specifically went back and watched what Cooper was referring to and he was dead on.

Prescott insinuated that Lamb was at fault earlier in the year because that's what he does, deflect blame until he can't any longer then he does what he did after the HOU game, I promise to not to that because I hate picks too. Anything to turn the heat down.

But other than playing it safer with checkdowns to backs and TE's, how is he going to do that? One thing every one of those QB's I mentioned shares, along with Brady and Rodgers, the willingness to thread the needle sometimes barely larger than the ball and selective amnesia when it doesn't go well. It mystifies me how accurate they can be.

But I think there is a trait in all of those QB's that Prescott does not have, confidence. He might talk a good game but I watched him at Miss St and since he became the DC QB and that mouth breather look after a pick is all about shaky confidence. The man has been living the dream but I think that comes with a few fitful nights of sleep, regardless of the mattress.

It’s 2022 man, there’s a plethora of data available to evaluate players so we don’t have to just rely on the “eyeball test” anymore. You essentially lost me right after the first paragraph.

He also blamed the Packers ints on miscommunication. He did not put the finger at Lamb and directly blame him…so that’s false.

And regardless of your “eyeball tests” opinion of him that changes nothing about the whole point of this thread. Our current WR is mediocre at best. All of your favorite needle throwing QBs…Mahomes, Allen, Joe, Herby all have better 1/2 punches at WR then we do.

 

[CouchCoach]

It’s 2022 man, there’s a plethora of data available to evaluate players so we don’t have to just rely on the “eyeball test” anymore. You essentially lost me right after the first paragraph.

He also blamed the Packers ints on miscommunication. He did not put the finger at Lamb and directly blame him…so that’s false.

And regardless of your “eyeball tests” opinion of him that changes nothing about the whole point of this thread. Our current WR is mediocre at best. All of your favorite needle throwing QBs…Mahomes, Allen, Joe, Herby all have better 1/2 punches at WR then we do.

You are correct. I just get tired of all of the Prescott excuse makers just as I did the Romo ones.

No, the Cowboys do not have a WR corps as good as those teams and they do not have a QB as good either. And therein might be a clue as to how QB's and WR's help make each other better. No better example than PHL.

However, when it comes to WR's, better to throw to your own than the other team's DB's. Bad WR's are still the better option.

 

[cnuball21]

You are correct. I just get tired of all of the Prescott excuse makers just as I did the Romo ones.

No, the Cowboys do not have a WR corps as good as those teams and they do not have a QB as good either. And therein might be a clue as to how QB's and WR's help make each other better. No better example than PHL.

However, when it comes to WR's, better to throw to your own than the other team's DB's. Bad WR's are still the better option.

Yea, Philly is the perfect example. Hurtz looked like someone that would get cut early in his career so they built the OL, drafted a 1st round WR, traded for a #1 WR and we’re active like crazy in FA to build their defense. Now he’s magically good. Weird how that works.

Rams are a good example too. Stafford was a good QB rotting away in Det until he got to a team that was actually aggressive in building a Super Bowl contender. Then he won one. Everyone crapped on him for a decade then he was a media darling with the Rams.

I don’t make excuses for Dak. When he’s bad I call him out and when he’s good he gets a that a boy. I make excuses for the team as a whole because the Jones have been holding this team back for the last 20+ years because they are inept at roster management.

Currently - our WR room is not good. This is a result of Jerry and Stephen letting Cooper walk and doing nothing to fix it in the offseason.

 

[cmoney23]

I'll just use one example:

What happened in 2018 pre-Cooper? Who was the game changer? Dak or Cooper? How was Dak before Cooper? How was Dak after Cooper? Who did Dak help and make better before Cooper showed up that season? Why was Cooper even needed then?

Great example.

The Cooper trade was widely questioned as a reach on the Cowboy's part. Most here and in the media, questioned if Cooper was worth the draft capital to get him as he didn't seem to be an elite WR.

He got here, with Dak, and his career resurged a bit.

Last full year in Oakland. 12 starts, 14 games, 48 receptions for 680 yards.
First full year in Dallas. 16 of 16. 79 receptions and 1,128 yards.

I Guess when I look at Amari, Pre-Dallas, with Dallas, and Post Dallas... I think he is who he is... a mid their 1 but would be a dynamic, top-tier number 2.

As for the Cowboys in 2018... that was a laughable experiment and proved to be such. A group of Tavon Austin, Allen Hurns, Beasley, Gallup...

 

[stinkface]

No doubt our receivers are slightly above average. Now, the question is whether they have peaked or still have upside? I think Lamb still has upside, but everyone else is pretty much peaked. I will say while I likevDak a bunch he does not have the pure ability to throw the ball like the top guys. Accuracy is hard to improve. He however is mentally tough and a leader and those are hard traits to find. Lots of QBs from a scouts viewpoint are better. That's why Dak was a 4th round pick. He has overachieved his draft status for sure. But he will never have the pure skillset of other QBs.

IMO the best young QB is Borrough. Dude is tough as nails and while he doesn't have the monster arm he has enough arm and he is amazingly accurate. Plus he can read the field and run through his progressions like a high speed computer. Mahomes and Allen are just freaks. PS. The young QB from Jacksonville has a ton of talent. They will be a team to watch in the next few years.

 

[cmoney23]

Yea, Philly is the perfect example. Hurtz looked like someone that would get cut early in his career so they built the OL, drafted a 1st round WR, traded for a #1 WR and we’re active like crazy in FA to build their defense. Now he’s magically good. Weird how that works.

Rams are a good example too. Stafford was a good QB rotting away in Det until he got to a team that was actually aggressive in building a Super Bowl contender. Then he won one. Everyone crapped on him for a decade then he was a media darling with the Rams.

I don’t make excuses for Dak. When he’s bad I call him out and when he’s good he gets a that a boy. I make excuses for the team as a whole because the Jones have been holding this team back for the last 20+ years because they are inept at roster management.

Currently - our WR room is not good. This is a result of Jerry and Stephen letting Cooper walk and doing nothing to fix it in the offseason.

You completely, 10000% nailed it.

My thoughts on Dak exactly.