Looking Back: Tyron Smith or JJ Watt?

[tyke1doe]

It's simple: the LT protects your QB. No LT and maybe no QB (Romo).
DE doesn't protect the QB. He sacks the QB, but he doesn't protect the QB.

Therefore, Tyron Smith.

 

[Noryb]

Ware and Watt on the same team, I think that might have been good enough to give us that extra win we needed to make the playoffs in those years, but maybe not... I'm not really trying to judge the player based on team success... My whole point was in response to Irvin88 who said if we had taken Watt instead of Tyron that "we would be in the same place Houston is now... no playoffs", which is an argument that doesn't hold water, since the Texans have made the playoffs more than us since the 2011 draft... Yeah we were good last year, but this is this year, and Romo is hurt once again, despite playing behind what is supposedly a "dominant" OL... My real point is, not only is Watt a more special player, he would be more valuable to the team's success than Tyron has... That said, I'm not at all unhappy with Tyron, it was a good pick, he's a really good young player and I'm thrilled that he's on our team...

Cowboys would have made the playoffs the last 4 years if they played in that division. Texans won that division the year the Colts didn't have Manning and the year Luck was a rookie.

It really wasn't that great of an accomplishment.

I posted earlier in this thread that about half of Watt's career sacks have come against those 3 crappy teams.

 

[KJJ]

Last season the Cowboys had the most loaded offense they've had since the early 90's. They had arguably the best OL in football along with the top rusher in the league and a QB who had an MVP type season. They had a WR who led the league in TD's. Two of the Cowboys offensive players Murray and Dez set franchise records last season for rushing yards and TD catches. The Cowboys offense didn't have a single weakness yet they couldn't get past the second round of the playoffs due to their defense which has been an ongoing problem for more than a decade. You would have to go back to the 90's to find the last time the Cowboys had a solid secondary. Since Kevin Smith was drafted in 92 the Cowboys have come up with one solid corner (Newman) who was good in coverage but wasn't a playmaker. You can count with 2 fingers the "great" defensive players the Cowboys have drafted the past 20 years Ware and Lee. If it wasn't for injuries/missed games Lee would be having a HOF career. He missed an entire season with an ACL and looks better than ever. The Cowboys have had a few solid players on defense but it's been littered mostly with players who are decent but inconsistent.

For every play they make they give up two plays that's been the story of the Cowboys defenses for more than a decade. Everything the Cowboys have accomplished since their great 90's teams has all been due to the offenses they've had. The Cowboys have been blessed with a lot of talent at the skill positions and that's what's carried this team to the playoffs under Romo and the reason they have 2 playoff wins. The defense has been the downfall of every good team the Cowboys have had since the 90's and it ended up being their downfall last season vs the Packers. It's the same problem every time the Cowboys make the playoffs they can't cover, tackle, force turnovers or a generate a damn pass rush and the end result is a shredding by a top QB. Hard for anyone to convince me a healthy Ware wouldn't have made at least somewhat of a difference vs the Packers. It was the lack of pressure on Rodgers that did the Cowboys in and last years Cowboys team may have been the best one we'll see for awhile. Romo has been injured the past 3 seasons resulting in missed games and with him getting older the clock is ticking. Once he's gone gosh knows where the Cowboys will be then especially if the defense continues to be an issue every season.

 

[KJJ]

If Watt was on this team we would be where Houston is. ....no playoffs.

We are contenders with Smith. ..not so much with Watt. I want a team not one great player

This is coming from a guy who was questioning my intelligence. lol That's has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in a long time unless you're referring to the Cowboys in their current state. You're never very clear so it's anyone's guess where you're coming from with that comment. The only way the Cowboys would have a chance to end up like Houston with Watt on the team is if Romo and Dez don't return.The Cowboys are contenders because of their QB and skill position players. They end up being bounced from contention every season primarily because of their defense. The Cowboys were contenders long before Tyron arrived. They contended in 06, 07 and 09 without Tyron. Romo's had at least 3 different LT's and the Cowboys have contended with all of them. Swapping Tyron for Watt could make the Cowboys a dynamic team once Romo and Dez return. As strong as the Cowboys OL is with the equivalent of three #1's up front if you count Collins the Cowboys wouldn't miss a beat up front by replacing Tyron with another LT.

With the addition of Watt to go along with Hardy and Gregory that would give the Cowboys one of the best pass rushes they've had since the early 90's. Just imaging rotating Hardy and Gregory with Watt on the other side...SCARY! With Hardy, Gregory, Lee and McClain who should be back the Cowboys defense would improve dramatically. Despite several top 10 offenses over the years the Cowboys have not been able to get past the second round of the playoffs because of their defense primarily their lack of a pass rush. To contain an Aaron Rodgers and the rest of the prolific passers you run into in the playoffs you have to have a pass rush and Watt along with Hardy and Gregory would provide a dynamic pass rush. Those 3 would be a nightmare for opposing OL's.

 

[Fletch]

Last season the Cowboys had the most loaded offense they've had since the early 90's. They had arguably the best OL in football along with the top rusher in the league and a QB who had an MVP type season. They had a WR who led the league in TD's. Two of the Cowboys offensive players Murray and Dez set franchise records last season for rushing yards and TD catches. The Cowboys offense didn't have a single weakness yet they couldn't get past the second round of the playoffs due to their defense which has been an ongoing problem for more than a decade. You would have to go back to the 90's to find the last time the Cowboys had a solid secondary. Since Kevin Smith was drafted in 92 the Cowboys have come up with one solid corner (Newman) who was good in coverage but wasn't a playmaker. You can count with 2 fingers the "great" defensive players the Cowboys have drafted the past 20 years Ware and Lee. If it wasn't for injuries/missed games Lee would be having a HOF career. He missed an entire season with an ACL and looks better than ever. The Cowboys have had a few solid players on defense but it's been littered mostly with players who are decent but inconsistent.

For every play they make they give up two plays that's been the story of the Cowboys defenses for more than a decade. Everything the Cowboys have accomplished since their great 90's teams has all been due to the offenses they've had. The Cowboys have been blessed with a lot of talent at the skill positions and that's what's carried this team to the playoffs under Romo and the reason they have 2 playoff wins. The defense has been the downfall of every good team the Cowboys have had since the 90's and it ended up being their downfall last season vs the Packers. It's the same problem every time the Cowboys make the playoffs they can't cover, tackle, force turnovers or a generate a damn pass rush and the end result is a shredding by a top QB. Hard for anyone to convince me a healthy Ware wouldn't have made at least somewhat of a difference vs the Packers. It was the lack of pressure on Rodgers that did the Cowboys in and last years Cowboys team may have been the best one we'll see for awhile. Romo has been injured the past 3 seasons resulting in missed games and with him getting older the clock is ticking. Once he's gone gosh knows where the Cowboys will be then especially if the defense continues to be an issue every season.

You get a like. Well played and thought out. A good read. We're better off with Smith in the long run.

 

[KJJ]

You get a like. Well played and thought out. A good read. We're better off with Smith in the long run.

Smith will have the longest career but the Cowboys will never get over the hump if they don't build a solid defense that can rush the passer. It's going to be hard to avoid running into Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs. All the championship Cowboy teams had outstanding defenses that could get after the QB. In the 70s the Cowboys Doomsday defense was always making plays harassing QBs in the playoffs and it was the same with our great 90s teams. The defense always came up big in tight games with pressures, sacks and turnovers and none of the Cowboys defenses under Romo have been like that in elimination/playoff games.

Tyron is an excellent player but he can be replaced as strong as the Cowboys OL is. It's not that hard to find a good/decent LT that can do the job we've seen that over the years with Romo having at least 3 LTs. It's the defense that always rears its ugly head with the good teams the Cowboys have had. The offense has made all our teams what they were and the defense ends up killing us. Seattle didn't have near the offense the Cowboys had last season but they have a great defense. The D looked great vs Philly a couple of weeks ago but last week it was horrible that's been the story for more than a decade with this team there's been no consistency defensively.

 

[Fletch]

Smith will have the longest career but the Cowboys will never get over the hump if they don't build a solid defense that can rush the passer. It's going to be hard to avoid running into Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs. All the championship Cowboy teams had outstanding defenses that could get after the QB. In the 70s the Cowboys Doomsday defense was always making plays harassing QBs in the playoffs and it was the same with our great 90s teams. The defense always came up big in tight games with pressures, sacks and turnovers and none of the Cowboys defenses under Romo have been like that in elimination/playoff games.

Tyron is an excellent player but he can be replaced as strong as the Cowboys OL is. It's not that hard to find a good/decent LT that can do the job we've seen that over the years with Romo having at least 3 LTs. It's the defense that always rears its ugly head with the good teams the Cowboys have had. The offense has made all our teams what they were and the defense ends up killing us. Seattle didn't have near the offense the Cowboys had last season but they have a great defense. The D looked great vs Philly a couple of weeks ago but last week it was horrible that's been the story for more than a decade with this team there's been no consistency defensively.

I don't think you can just plug in someone to replace Smith's talents at LT. WAY easier said than done. Both Watt and Tyron are elite at their positions. Our O-line has been struggling as it is. Houston is struggling on defense even with JJ. In this day and age, both sides of the ball need to compliment each other.

 

[dallasdave]

I don't think you can just plug in someone to replace Smith's talents at LT. WAY easier said than done. Both Watt and Tyron are elite at their positions. Our O-line has been struggling as it is. Houston is struggling on defense even with JJ. In this day and age, both sides of the ball need to compliment each other.

Well said but you and I know we should have got both !!!

 

[KJJ]

I don't think you can just plug in someone to replace Smith's talents at LT. WAY easier said than done. Both Watt and Tyron are elite at their positions. Our O-line has been struggling as it is. Houston is struggling on defense even with JJ. In this day and age, both sides of the ball need to compliment each other.

You can't just plug anyone in but the Cowboys haven't had any problems finding LT's that could do the job since Romo has been here. It's all a matter of opinion but for me Watt is just too good to pass up even if it means sacrificing a stud LT.

 

[kevm3]

What other great LT's have the cowboys had protecting Romo?

 

[chris1995]

Smith

 

[jobberone]

I'll take two of each please.

 

[DandyDon52]

Not a popular opinion, however, I see Watt as a once in a generation player. So far in his brief career he looks like the best DL to enter the league since Reggie White came out of the USFL in 1986.

Tyron is a top 2-3 tackle, but certainly not that kind of generational talent.

Having said all that, it's too early to make a call. Ask me in 6-7 years.

I go along with this, but will say I think watt would have been the choice to make, and get another LT.

 

[Blackspider214]

Watt = Ware so far in his career.

 

[cowboyuptx]

Let's look back at some basic stats and remind ourselves how lucky we are to now have "the best and most dominant OL in the NFL", instead of the scrubby OL's we had in prior seasons of the Romo era....

SACKS ALLOWED
2015 - 5 (through 3 games, only 8 teams have allowed fewer sacks) *Romo injured - will miss 7-8 games w/ broken collarbone*
2014 - 30 (11 teams gave up fewer sacks)
2013 - 35 (only 6 teams gave up fewer sacks)
2012 - 36 (ranked 15th in sacks allowed)
2011 - 39 (only 12 teams allowed more sacks)

Average sacks per season in Tyron era 37.5 per season (2015 stats were not factored in)

2010 - 31 (only 10 teams allowed fewer sacks) *Romo injured - misses 10 games w/ broken collarbone*
2009 - 34 (15th in sacks allowed)
2008 - 31 (15th in sacks allowed)
2007 - 25 (only 9 teams allowed fewer sacks)
2006 - 37 (only 12 teams allowed more sacks)

Average sacks per season in pre-Tyron era 31.6 per season... If you eliminate the year with the lowest sack total (2007) then it's 34.5 per season

RUSHING YPC
2015 - 4.1 (13th in ypc)
2014 - 4.6 (3rd in ypc)
2013 - 4.5 (7th in ypc)
2012 - 3.6 (30th in ypc)
2011 - 4.4 (9th in ypc)

Average yard per carry in the Tyron era 4.275 (2015 stats were not factored in)

2010 - 4.2 (15th in ypc)
2009 - 4.8 (2nd in ypc)
2008 - 4.3 (10th in ypc)
2007 - 4.2 (7th in ypc)
2006 - 4.1 (14th in ypc)

Average yard per carry in the pre-Tyron era 4.32

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm............

 

[Macnalty]

Sacks are semi meaningless in a data set for predicting good defense(timing of sack important yes). QB pressure is a more relevant piece of info. IMO during the draft Tyron Smith made more sense, Watts talents were visible along with Tyron's and we were in desperate need of a Offensive Lineman. you can second guess all day it will only frustrate you, you make the choice on the best available data and Smith checked most of the boxes for us that year. Especially for need and future consideration. Wow we picked a perennial all pro how horrible(I jest). When Romo starts to slide in talent due to age and injury this argument will turn to Manziel vs Martin.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

Watt = Ware so far in his career.

What year of his career did Ware score 5 td's?

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

I'm good.....

 

[S4 DGMS]

Heres the deal. Tyron is an excellent L.T but Watt is a once a generation player. In fact when you consider that he has always played in a 3 man line Watt is doing things that have NEVER been done before him. HUGE difference between a 4-3 defensive lineman and a 3-4 defensive lineman. Truth be told,....no 3-4 defensive lineman that has came before him can touch what he has accomplished.

Also,....I cant even imagine what the guy could do in a 4 man line,.....WOW. Watt is so dominant that he could play all 4 of the positions in a 4 man line AND both end positions in a 3 man line and still dominate. Quite frankly, the guy could also play the nose in a pinch in a 3 man line,....certainly in a Phillips style 3-4.


Having said all that,....... we made the right call in selecting Smith. Our O line was in a terrible way and he was the 1st piece in bringing it back.

 

[S4 DGMS]

Lastly,....as a 3-4 defensive end you are considered to be outstanding if you can produce 7-9 sacks a year from that right defensive end position in the 3-4. The truly special ones like Leonard Marshall and Bruce Smith would produce 10-13 sacks a year or so.

Now consider that Watt does what he does mostly from the LEFT defensive end position in the 3-4 in addition to being an absolute bull against the run. And BTW,....consider the fact that JJ Watt also ranks higher than most corners and safties when it comes to " passes defensed" category because he knocks down so many passes at the LOS. Look it up,.... its there. In fact I think he was TOP FIVE in that department the year before last....LOL. Thats crazy! But again I say.......we did draft the right player. At that point in time our hands were basically tied.