Looking Back: Tyron Smith or JJ Watt?

[joseephuss]

You said "Free was terrible other than his first season at LT" and you're wrong. He was very good at RT in 2009 stepping in for Marc Colombo who suffered a season ending injury. In 7 games that season Free only gave up one sack. It was his play at RT from 09 to 2010 that got the Cowboys to switch him to LT where he played great for one season. It was his solid play for over 2 seasons that earned him that 32M contract with 17M guaranteed. It was after signing that contract that his play at LT regressed causing the Cowboys to switch him back to RT and move Tyron to LT. Free was still a liability and that resulted in him almost getting cut and having to take a pay cut.

I don't remember Colombo suffering a season ending injury in 2009. I remember him playing horribly against the Vikings in the playoffs that season.

 

[KJJ]

When you go 3 and outs and turn the ball over and leave the defense on the field you can't expect them to not give up scores. To think otherwise is inane

The Cowboys possessed the ball slightly longer than Philly. They had the same number of first downs and had 414 total yards so how many 3 and outs can you have producing that many yards? You're making it sound like the Cowboys had trouble moving ball that night but it was the turnovers and the Cowboys inability to stop Philly's running game along with their inability to run the ball themselves that ultimately put the game on Orton's shoulders in the final minutes. He had no running game to lean on and was forced to put the ball up and he made the same ill-timed mistake we saw Romo make the year prior against Washington in the season finale when that game was on the line.

 

[KJJ]

I don't remember Colombo suffering a season ending injury in 2009. I remember him playing horribly against the Vikings in the playoffs that season.

When I said season ending I meant regular season. Colombo suffered an injury in week 10 vs the Packers in 09 and missed the final 7 regular season games but he returned for the playoffs. He still wasn't healthy and didn't play well. The OL fell apart against Minn but the defense stunk as well allowing old man Favre to toss 4 TD's.

 

[burmafrd]

the whole team pretty much stank it up vs the Vikings. I think that is when doughboy began to really lose them.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

You said "Free was terrible other than his first season at LT" and you're wrong. He was very good at RT in 2009 stepping in for Marc Colombo who suffered a season ending injury. In 7 games that season Free only gave up one sack. It was his play at RT from 09 to 2010 that got the Cowboys to switch him to LT where he played great for one season. It was his solid play for over 2 seasons that earned him that 32M contract with 17M guaranteed. It was after signing that contract that his play at LT regressed causing the Cowboys to switch him back to RT and move Tyron to LT. Free was still a liability and that resulted in him almost getting cut and having to take a pay cut.

We are talking about playing LT not RT but continue to make up words that I didn't say.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

The Cowboys possessed the ball slightly longer than Philly. They had the same number of first downs and had 414 total yards so how many 3 and outs can you have producing that many yards? You're making it sound like the Cowboys had trouble moving ball that night but it was the turnovers and the Cowboys inability to stop Philly's running game along with their inability to run the ball themselves that ultimately put the game on Orton's shoulders in the final minutes. He had no running game to lean on and was forced to put the ball up and he made the same ill-timed mistake we saw Romo make the year prior against Washington in the season finale when that game was on the line.

Stop trying to twist my words into things I didn't say. Keep making it seem that Orton throwing multiple interceptions....the second one to lose the game and Clutts fumble had nothing to do with the lost against Philly, it was all because of defense. No matter how many yards that was giving up the defense did their job by giving our offense the ball to win it and Orton failed. Point blank.

Really you going to put it on the defense by saying it's ok for Orton to lose the game because Romo has thrown an interception to lose the game? That's the offense to blame, defense didn't throw the interception

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Leary should only be in the discussion if you would rather have him over Watt. No player has their way every week but Watt is arguably the best, most disruptive defensive player the league has seen since Lawrence Taylor.

Yet you were the one using one play to prop up Watt as the guy.

Do you not see the absurdity both ways?

 

[KJJ]

We are talking about playing LT not RT but continue to make up words that I didn't say.

I'm not making up words I quoted you. lol You said "Free was terrible other then his first season at LT." From that statement you're giving the impression that you either forgot or wasn't aware that Free played very well for a season and a half at RT. That's the interpretation I got and if I got it wrong you need to make yourself more clear. It was Free's solid play at RT that gave the Cowboys the trust in him to move him to LT. He played one good season at LT and regressed prompting the Cowboys to put him back at RT and play Tyron at LT who they felt would make a good LT when they drafted him.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I'm not making up words I quoted you. lol You said "Free was terrible other then his first season at LT." From that statement you're giving the impression that you either forgot or wasn't aware that Free played very well for a season and a half at RT. That's the interpretation I got and if I got it wrong you need to make yourself more clear. It was Free's solid play at RT that gave the Cowboys the trust in him to move him to LT. He played one good season at LT and regressed the next season prompting the Cowboys to put him back at RT and play Tyron at LT who they felt at the time they drafted him that he would make a good LT.

Again we are talking about Smith at LT and Free at LT, guess I will dumb everything down for you in elementary standards. Sorry I assumed I was talking to an intelligent adult

 

[KJJ]

Stop trying to twist my words into things I didn't say. Keep making it seem that Orton throwing multiple interceptions....the second one to lose the game and Clutts fumble had nothing to do with the lost against Philly, it was all because of defense. No matter how many yards that was giving up the defense did their job by giving our offense the ball to win it and Orton failed. Point blank.

Really you going to put it on the defense by saying it's ok for Orton to lose the game because Romo has thrown an interception to lose the game? That's the offense to blame, defense didn't throw the interception

Dude, I don't twist peoples words that's not my MO and never has been. It's not my fault you can't make yourself clear. You mentioned the Cowboys had 3 and outs as if they weren't moving the ball against Philly. That's the impression a comment like that gives. The Cowboys had over 400 yards of offense and 21 first downs. I said from the beginning the turnovers were costly never once saying they didn't contribute to the loss. Naturally 3 turnovers are going to contribute to any loss especially a 2 point game but despite the turnovers the Cowboys still had an opportunity to win in the end.

I never pinned the loss entirely on the defense but the D contributed by not being able to contain McCoy who had 131 yards and a TD. His performance took a lot of pressure off Foles who only had to attempt 33 passes while Orton had to attempt 46 passes due to the Cowboys inability to run the ball. You're not going to win a do or die game with a backup QB having attempt that many passes. Mistakes are bound to happen especially when the game is on the line.

 

[KJJ]

Again we are talking about Smith at LT and Free at LT, guess I will dumb everything down for you in elementary standards. Sorry I assumed I was talking to an intelligent adult

Most would have taken your original statement the way I did because you made it sound as if Free hadn't played well prior to his first season at LT. If misconstruing a post on a message board is a lack of intelligence then there's a lot of stupid people here. You didn't make yourself clear that's on you.

 

[KJJ]

The reason Free almost got cut was his poor play at LT after one very good season at the position and his continued poor play at RT after he was switched back. Jerry didn't feel his play warranted the salary he was making and forced him to take a pay cut or be cut.

 

[cowboyuptx]

If Watt was on this team we would be where Houston is. ....no playoffs.

We are contenders with Smith. ..not so much with Watt. I want a team not one great player

Are you kidding? Romo got hurt anyway! And secondly, the main difference between Dallas and Houston is not about us having Tyron vs them having Watt, it's about having Tony Romo vs Ryan Mallet as your starting QB! Not to mention having Dez Bryant starting at WR instead of DeAndre Hopkins.

And playoffs? Houston has been to the playoffs TWICE since drafting Watt in 2011 and have a record of 2-2.... JJ Watt's stats for those 4 playoff games, 5 Sacks, and 1 INT, which he returned 29 yards for a TD, that's stout... Meanwhile in that same time span, Dallas has only been to the playoffs ONCE and have a record of 1-1... In those 2 games, Romo was Sacked 10 times, while the Dallas defense registered only 5 Sacks in two games...

All Houston needed was a mediocre QB like Matt Shaub and they were able to make some noise in the playoffs... If you kept everything else the same, but put Dez and Romo on the Texans, then Houston would be a Super Bowl favorite, while Dallas would be picking in the top 5-10 of the draft...

 

[perrykemp]

Houston has been to the playoffs TWICE since drafting Watt in 2011 and have a record of 2-2.... JJ Watt's stats for those 4 playoff games, 5 Sacks, and 1 INT, which he returned 29 yards for a TD, that's stout...

Nice production.

 

[mattjames2010]

Are you kidding? Romo got hurt anyway! And secondly, the main difference between Dallas and Houston is not about us having Tyron vs them having Watt, it's about having Tony Romo vs Ryan Mallet as your starting QB! Not to mention having Dez Bryant starting at WR instead of DeAndre Hopkins.

And playoffs? Houston has been to the playoffs TWICE since drafting Watt in 2011 and have a record of 2-2.... JJ Watt's stats for those 4 playoff games, 5 Sacks, and 1 INT, which he returned 29 yards for a TD, that's stout... Meanwhile in that same time span, Dallas has only been to the playoffs ONCE and have a record of 1-1... In those 2 games, Romo was Sacked 10 times, while the Dallas defense registered only 5 Sacks in two games...

All Houston needed was a mediocre QB like Matt Shaub and they were able to make some noise in the playoffs... If you kept everything else the same, but put Dez and Romo on the Texans, then Houston would be a Super Bowl favorite, while Dallas would be picking in the top 5-10 of the draft...

Houston had Andre Johnson in 2012 who had a 1,400 yard season. They DID have a Dez Bryant. Matt Schaub was also a capable enough QB, threw for over 4,000 yards in 2012 and had a rating over 90. They had a good QB and a great WR.

But again, the claims in this thread is that JJ Watt is would take this team to the next level: JJ Watt was nothing in 2011 until playoffs, in 2012 playoffs he was surrounded by talented and posted 1.5 sacks; we all know the Texans story in 2013. The almighty Watt helped his team to 2 victories.

We had Ware in 2011 and 2012 - Ware had 19 sacks in 2011, then 12 sacks in 2012 and 5 forced fumbles. Both seasons we were 8-8; yet, people think Watt would have led us to the playoffs? No.

 

[Stryker44]

JJ Watt is unblockable without double teams. Watt easily.

 

[cowboyuptx]

Houston had Andre Johnson in 2012 who had a 1,400 yard season. They DID have a Dez Bryant. Matt Schaub was also a capable enough QB, threw for over 4,000 yards in 2012 and had a rating over 90. They had a good QB and a great WR.

But again, the claims in this thread is that JJ Watt is would take this team to the next level: JJ Watt was nothing in 2011 until playoffs, in 2012 playoffs he was surrounded by talented and posted 1.5 sacks; we all know the Texans story in 2013. The almighty Watt helped his team to 2 victories.

We had Ware in 2011 and 2012 - Ware had 19 sacks in 2011, then 12 sacks in 2012 and 5 forced fumbles. Both seasons we were 8-8; yet, people think Watt would have led us to the playoffs? No.

Ware and Watt on the same team, I think that might have been good enough to give us that extra win we needed to make the playoffs in those years, but maybe not... I'm not really trying to judge the player based on team success... My whole point was in response to Irvin88 who said if we had taken Watt instead of Tyron that "we would be in the same place Houston is now... no playoffs", which is an argument that doesn't hold water, since the Texans have made the playoffs more than us since the 2011 draft... Yeah we were good last year, but this is this year, and Romo is hurt once again, despite playing behind what is supposedly a "dominant" OL... My real point is, not only is Watt a more special player, he would be more valuable to the team's success than Tyron has... That said, I'm not at all unhappy with Tyron, it was a good pick, he's a really good young player and I'm thrilled that he's on our team...

 

[CowboyGil]

I'll still go with the safe, boring franchise cornerstone Smith.

 

[burmafrd]

Ware and Watt on the same team, I think that might have been good enough to give us that extra win we needed to make the playoffs in those years, but maybe not... I'm not really trying to judge the player based on team success... My whole point was in response to Irvin88 who said if we had taken Watt instead of Tyron that "we would be in the same place Houston is now... no playoffs", which is an argument that doesn't hold water, since the Texans have made the playoffs more than us since the 2011 draft... Yeah we were good last year, but this is this year, and Romo is hurt once again, despite playing behind what is supposedly a "dominant" OL... My real point is, not only is Watt a more special player, he would be more valuable to the team's success than Tyron has... That said, I'm not at all unhappy with Tyron, it was a good pick, he's a really good young player and I'm thrilled that he's on our team...

and where is Houston going with watt? Nowhere really just pretty much like we did with Ware. And we DID have a top QB.

Bottom line is that you need a whole team to win it all and we pretty much never have had one without the fatal flaw. 2007 we got soft at the end of theyear - due to Doughboy as much as anything else. Since then we have not had enough overall talent to get it done. 2009 our O line was declining and also coaching was not what was needed. So despite our D being as good as it had been in years we got wasted by the Vikings- due to injuries and age on the O line and frankly soft coaching as well.

Now we seem to have stronger coaching (I think the best overall staff since Jimmy) and we have the Oline, will have the QB and WR, and of course have the TE. RB- well no one team has it all. The D has a lot of potential with Ro and Hardy coming back and Lee so far healthy. The Secondary is good enough if we get more pressure. Got one of the best Kickers in the game and a decent punter. So at the moment we just might have all the ingredients needed.

Watt is a great player but I am willing to bet right now that he will end up like Ware. No rings. So I do not regret passing on him.

 

[Chuck 54]

My only comment on this would be that it would be very interesting to see us back in the 3-4 Defense with
Watt and Crawford/Hardy at DE
Ware and Gregory at OLB (Ware is tearing it up and healthy now that he's not a down lineman)
McClain and Lee at ILB

It's not like we wouldn't have found an adequate LT to protect Romo....we just wouldn't have a young pro bowler there.