Looking back: Was it a mistake not to go back to Romo

Super_Kazuya

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lol - well, if stating an accurate number is a lie, I'll be the liar, and you can keep pretending that you are being accurate by treating TD's a QB gets with his feet as if they aren't actual TD's for the QB. While you're at it, why don't you petition the NFL to have Dak's rushing TD's disallowed, and if the team won by less than 7 points have the wins nullified.
Like I said you’re a lying troll who was caught in a lie. You were corrected and that’s it. Dak had 23 passing TDs and Romo had 34 TDs on less attempts. You knew presenting it like that didn’t make your weak argument look good. No matter how frustrated and full of rage you get about it, your lies don’t change that. You can crawl back under your rock now.
 

OmerV

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Like I said you’re a lying troll who was caught in a lie. You were corrected and that’s it. Dak had 23 passing TDs and Romo had 34 TDs on less attempts. You knew presenting it like that didn’t make your weak argument look good. No matter how frustrated and full of rage you get about it, your lies don’t change that. You can crawl back under your rock now.
lol - live your fantasy world. I never said that Dak had more than 23 passing TD's, yet you pretend I did.

As for Romo having fewer passing attempts, it was a season total of 24 fewer attempts - 1.5 fewer passes per game - not a huge difference. Besides, I never said the stats were identical, I said they were comparable.

In the end, Dak accounted for 3949 yards from scrimmage and 29 TD's, and Romo accounted for 3766 yards from scrimmage and 34 TD's.

Apparently a person presenting accurate figures, which I did, amounts to a troll and liar if they don't fit your narrative.
 

75boyz

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I wonder how things would have played out in 2016 if Romo got his job back once he became healthy.

Perhaps he could have taken the team all the way to the Superbowl like he almost did in 2014.

Perhaps Romo could have played one more season and Dak would only have 2018 and 2019 as being a starter for this team. His value would most likely be worth less because 2017 was a down year for Dak.

Perhaps he could've got re-injured and Dak would've stepped back in only further proving Romo's durability issues.

But to this day I still think Garrett and Jones did Romo dirty by not giving him his starting job back.

Jason Garrett.....*shivers*

I can kinda understand the whole 2016 fiasco from the ultimate dreamer and hope is his strategy owner Jerry. He wanted to ride out the one possible dream season in hopes of duplicated former glory of past back ups like Morrall, Hostetler, or gosh forbid HOF"s Warner and Brady.

So in that regard, knowing Jerry is like that, I have come to terms with the outcome of 2016.

My memory sucks so I don't remember if Tony's contract was up in 2017 or his exact health status was at the time, but you'll never ever ever convince me Dak could legitimately beat out Romo in a fair training camp and pre season QB competition to see who starts. So I can't recall the details on whether Tony was given the opportunity to compete for the job the following year.

It's the only real reason to watch if there is a season this year. When Dalton plays better in both condensed practice schedule and shortened preseason, every single Dak relative on this forum will be like "Well, you know Dak has never been a great practice/off season guy anyway, he's a gamer."

Just wait on it. That's how its gonna happen if there's a season.
 
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OmerV

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Okay fair enough about your stats. Just gonna have to let this one go. Me? I never claimed to not have agenda, EVER...in fact I said mine earlier...er somewhere. :confused:

So you think the coaching staff was aware enough to get Tony some playing time "just in case"? Well why wouldn't they have done the same for Cooper? In some meaninglessness time frame....put him out there and see what happens. "just in case"...like the last game of the year? I am not gonna say there was only ONE reason....but "shake the rust off just in case" sounds about as made up and unlikely as any other reason. Just my humble opinion of course.

There wasn't a throwaway game for Cooper to get that playing time in, and Cooper got in a full preseason and practice all year long.

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/12/30...-cowboys-resting-injured-starters-for-finale/

There was also word that Jerry Jones didn’t want to play Tony Romo because the Cowboys owner said he didn’t want to risk Romo behind an offensive line that was not at 100 percent. The coaches seem to have gotten their way and ESPN reported that their sources say that Romo will play some in the season finale. Dallas needs to protect Prescott and Romo for the playoffs, so they will play Mark Sanchez the majority of the game.

https://thelandryhat.com/2016/12/29/dallas-cowboys-final-game-quarterbacks/2/
ROMO’S SWAN SONG IN DALLAS
Just to clarify, Dallas will not risk his playoff health against the Eagles.
 
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SteveTheCowboy

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There wasn't a throwaway game for Cooper to get that playing time in, and Cooper got in a full preseason and practice all year long.


https://thelandryhat.com/2016/12/29/dallas-cowboys-final-game-quarterbacks/2/

ROMO’S SWAN SONG IN DALLAS
Just to clarify, Dallas will not risk his playoff health against the Eagles.



I don;t believe for one second there was no opportunity. Not sure I said "throwaway"...but if I did...I should have said "opportunity"...even a SMALL one... like your Romo theory.

And I think a QB deserves to play with the #1's if we're goona "shake rust off" or evaluate.

Again...just my opinion. And I don;t think it's that unreasonable. I see other teams do it.
 

OmerV

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I don;t believe for one second there was no opportunity. Not sure I said "throwaway"...but if I did...I should have said "opportunity"...even a SMALL one... like your Romo theory.

And I think a QB deserves to play with the #1's if we're goona "shake rust off" or evaluate.

Again...just my opinion. And I don;t think it's that unreasonable. I see other teams do it.
There are always opportunities at some point, but obviously it's a different thing in a final game when a team is protecting players just before going into the playoffs - that's a normal thing, and sitting starters otherwise is not normal. They actually considered playing Sanchez the whole game, but wanted Dak to get at least a few snaps so he wasn't completely idle for with a player that has barely practiced even practiced in almost a year and a half.
weeks, and they wanted to shake a little rust off Romo.

As for Romo needing to play with the first team, the first team wasn't going to play the full game either, and the O-Liine was beat up and would be resting people,

Ultimately, the plan was never for Romo to get more than a small amount of playing time in that game.


https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/12/30/dallas-cowboys-week-17-injury-report-cowboys-resting-injured-starters-for-finale/
There was also word that Jerry Jones didn’t want to play Tony Romo because the Cowboys owner said he didn’t want to risk Romo behind an offensive line that was not at 100 percent. The coaches seem to have gotten their way and ESPN reported that their sources say that Romo will play some in the season finale. Dallas needs to protect Prescott and Romo for the playoffs, so they will play Mark Sanchez the majority of the game.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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There are always opportunities at some point, but obviously it's a different thing in a final game when a team is protecting players just before going into the playoffs - that's a normal thing, and sitting starters otherwise is not normal. They actually considered playing Sanchez the whole game, but wanted Dak to get at least a few snaps so he wasn't completely idle for with a player that has barely practiced even practiced in almost a year and a half.
weeks, and they wanted to shake a little rust off Romo.

As for Romo needing to play with the first team, the first team wasn't going to play the full game either, and the O-Liine was beat up and would be resting people,

Ultimately, the plan was never for Romo to get more than a small amount of playing time in that game.


https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/12/30/dallas-cowboys-week-17-injury-report-cowboys-resting-injured-starters-for-finale/
There was also word that Jerry Jones didn’t want to play Tony Romo because the Cowboys owner said he didn’t want to risk Romo behind an offensive line that was not at 100 percent. The coaches seem to have gotten their way and ESPN reported that their sources say that Romo will play some in the season finale. Dallas needs to protect Prescott and Romo for the playoffs, so they will play Mark Sanchez the majority of the game.


I didn't say "do it in the final game" I said all along...do it at opportune times so you CAN BE READY FOR TIMES LIKE THE FINAL GAME.
 

OmerV

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I didn't say "do it in the final game" I said all along...do it at opportune times so you CAN BE READY FOR TIMES LIKE THE FINAL GAME.
I didn't say you said final game, what I said is it is common to rest players and play back ups in the final game when that game has no bearing on the playoffs, and that it is not common at other points in the season, accordingly those are different scenarios. And, again, Romo likely wouldn't have played at all, even in that final throwaway game, except he had a year and a half of rust to shake off, so the team decided to get him into the game very briefly.

And, as I showed in my previous post, the team planned before the game ever started to play Romo very briefly, and considered not playing him at all, so your theory about the only reason they could have taken him out was because they didn't want him to look good is inaccurate.
 

Aviano90

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There are always opportunities at some point, but obviously it's a different thing in a final game when a team is protecting players just before going into the playoffs - that's a normal thing, and sitting starters otherwise is not normal. They actually considered playing Sanchez the whole game, but wanted Dak to get at least a few snaps so he wasn't completely idle for with a player that has barely practiced even practiced in almost a year and a half.
weeks, and they wanted to shake a little rust off Romo.

As for Romo needing to play with the first team, the first team wasn't going to play the full game either, and the O-Liine was beat up and would be resting people,

Ultimately, the plan was never for Romo to get more than a small amount of playing time in that game.


https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/12/30/dallas-cowboys-week-17-injury-report-cowboys-resting-injured-starters-for-finale/
There was also word that Jerry Jones didn’t want to play Tony Romo because the Cowboys owner said he didn’t want to risk Romo behind an offensive line that was not at 100 percent. The coaches seem to have gotten their way and ESPN reported that their sources say that Romo will play some in the season finale. Dallas needs to protect Prescott and Romo for the playoffs, so they will play Mark Sanchez the majority of the game.
I remember that. I always thought it was crazy that there was a need to protect the back up QB. Usually you just play the back up to protect the starter. Romo needed to play the entire game in weeks 16 and 17 that year, IMO, especially considering how rusty he was in 2015.
 

OmerV

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I remember that. I always thought it was crazy that there was a need to protect the back up QB. Usually you just play the back up to protect the starter. Romo needed to play the entire game in weeks 16 and 17 that year, IMO, especially considering how rusty he was in 2015.

Most backup QB's aren't long time veteran starters though, so his value as a backup exceeded that of a normal backup. I think with his injury history (3 injuries in his previous 4 games) they wanted to shake off the rust a little, but also wanted to make sure he was healthy for the playoffs.
 

MarcusRock

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The NFL is effectively a monopoly. It is judge, jury, and executioner of its own rules. There is no independent arbitrator that can contest or override its rules. It can say whatever it wants post facto whenever there is room for doubt to justify a call it made, even if it is obviously horrible. Unfortunately for them (and you), language submits to a definable set of rules where words refer to concepts that have objective meaning. If they don't write the rules explicitly enough to cover their basis that is their problem. Anyone with an understanding of language can dispute the content from what is written. That is why good lawyers make so much money.

Derp. Talk about word salad. The rule explicitly states it is not necessary that he must commit the act provided that he has control long enough to do it. That one can determine whether someone can complete a move or not is not dependent upon them actually completing it. If they complete it, that would confirm it beyond a doubt and there would be nothing to dispute. Duh! There would be no point in specifying Note 1 then. The point is, it is sufficient that he has control and has enough time to execute it, which makes it a judgement call that is entirely contestable. And it is clear from the video that Dez had the control and the time to be able to commit such an act. He simply didn't execute it to the extent of standard that you want him to have. You want it to be comparable to 49er players, even though the context of the play and his motion is completely different from Dez's. The video isn't even a replay to show a similar precedent, but to (possibly) verify that the receiver still had control of the ball when he crossed the plane of the goal line in order for it to be a TD. And I already answered your question why it is irrelevant a number of times which you keep ignoring.

It has nothing to do with "word salad". That's why I asked at what point does the process of contacting the ground end? Why does the process of contacting the ground not end when his right elbow hits the ground, after his two feet hit the ground, the ball is moved from two hands to one, and he lunges with his left foot (as you can see the dirt pop up due to his cleat) to reach over the goal line with the ball secure in his forearm? At that point he would be down by contact which he was marked as. If he wasn't down it should've been called a TD. Yet, somehow you ignore this and want the rule to say that the process of contacting the ground didn't end there and only did so when his left arm hit it and the ball was jarred loose to be popped up into into his helmet and over his forearm. Why? Why doesn't it end when he slides into the end zone rolls forward and over and still secures the ball before it has a chance to hit the ground for him to indisputably lose control? Because that is another point that defeats the words of the rule. "Throughout" signifies nothing that disputes this. A player can hit the ground on his back lose control of the ball by bobbling it while sliding on his back, with the ball never touching the ground and still regain control and it be complete.

All of this is relevant of course because you have to show that it is indisputable from the rule itself that he did not catch the ball, and all I have to show is that there is ample evidence that the catch should stand.

The rule as worded is gone. Why? Because everyone knows it was catch. The commentators, the ref who called it a catch while watching it explicitly, the players on the field, the fans of both teams, etc. All that remains is the remnants to say "well, it was ruled right according to the rules" or that it is a stupid rule. Because admitting that it was a catch means they were wrong and they know it.

Don't like every single sports league writing and interpreting their own rules they write for participating in the league then get your own league where no judgement calls exist ever. Otherwise, don't sign up for them and then whine about them. And again, don’t ignore the question that if the NFL interpreted their own rules wrongly, where is the expose showing they did? Where? Do you have anything in that regard besides this Word Salad, Esquire routine?

Every receiver has "time enough" in a slow motion replay. But if you're a player in real game speed who actually attempts something but doesn't complete it, you clearly didn't have time enough. Shifting hands is not a football move. Waving to your mama is not a football move. Lunging and reaching the ball out is and is in the rules noting a time element fulfilment in a going to the ground situation. Dez intended that but didn’t execute. Judgement call just like pass interference or holding. But if you want to claim inconsistency, show a “limited by the player’s velocity” reach, to use your own words, that was credited as a catch by a player. Even using the excuse of velocity in not performing a full reach shows there was not “time enough.” Well it was judged exactly that way. The league’s standard, not mine. Can you show anything to the contrary besides legalese?

If you go to the ground and roll over at the end as you bobble a ball, that is your entire process of contacting the ground. You have to maintain control of the ball throughout and if not, the ball can’t touch the ground before regaining control. You can try to insert a failed lunge in here all you want (where Dez slips to kick dirt, not plants his foot to propel mind you) like all catch theorists but this is exactly what happened. The ground popped the ball out after hitting the ground (loss of control) before Dez repossessed it after rolling over. Dead in the water except to Word Salad, Esquire. Indisputable to boot. Ball on the ground, ball out of possession and then re-possessed.

And the rule is gone because it can’t contain the player athleticism out there. It’s also gone because average football fans just didn’t understand it. The other funny thing about the rule change is that it eliminated the requirement of maintaining possession of the football when going to the ground. When you remove this, then Dez’s play is a catch. Wouldn’t that mean that the going to the ground rule then took precedence over the main catch rule in that situation in 2014 like you claimed wasn’t true?

And you “misremembered” this I’m sure but Pereira said on game day during the broadcast that the call would be reversed even BEFORE it was announced as reversed. The official on the field was shielded from seeing the ball hit the ground. The reverse angle he couldn't see showed it clearly. That’s what replay is for and it worked. The only ones disagreeing are the ones who really, really, really wanted it to not be true and will go to great lengths to bend reality to get there, including the ol’ reliable, we-don’t-have-to-prove-anything CONSPIRACY! angle. Well done, Word Salad, Esquire. Well done. Except for me actually knowing the rules and all.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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I didn't say you said final game, what I said is it is common to rest players and play back ups in the final game when that game has no bearing on the playoffs, and that it is not common at other points in the season, accordingly those are different scenarios. And, again, Romo likely wouldn't have played at all, even in that final throwaway game, except he had a year and a half of rust to shake off, so the team decided to get him into the game very briefly.

And, as I showed in my previous post, the team planned before the game ever started to play Romo very briefly, and considered not playing him at all, so your theory about the only reason they could have taken him out was because they didn't want him to look good is inaccurate.

It certainly does!

But note....I don;t believe I said "the only reason was because they didn't want him to look good". I mean if I did....I am sure you'll show me ....but I sincerely don;'t really buy it either, truth be told. I said I just don't know what the reason for pulling/sinking healthy Romo's return. You seem to have set me straight.

Which begs the question.....why didn't we do that with cooper? There certainly HAD to be some moments in a game...a drive or two...to let Cooper hand off or throw a screen or flat. It may have given us some confidence in the last game decision. Would a healthy backup with a few drives under his belt performed better than injured Dak? Well....like this thread scenario....we'll never know.
 

OmerV

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It certainly does!

But note....I don;t believe I said "the only reason was because they didn't want him to look good". I mean if I did....I am sure you'll show me ....but I sincerely don;'t really buy it either, truth be told. I said I just don't know what the reason for pulling/sinking healthy Romo's return. You seem to have set me straight.

Which begs the question.....why didn't we do that with cooper? There certainly HAD to be some moments in a game...a drive or two...to let Cooper hand off or throw a screen or flat. It may have given us some confidence in the last game decision. Would a healthy backup with a few drives under his belt performed better than injured Dak? Well....like this thread scenario....we'll never know.
I've always wondered why teams don't allow backups to play here and there when games are decided one way or the other. It's not just the Cowboys that don't do that, it's just something that isn't done much.

Of course, in most cases that would only be late in the game with the team just handing off the ball to wind down the clock, but some time under center would be better than nothing. Having a meaningless game at the end of the season where the team isn't planning to play starters much, if at all, is a different opportunity, and one Cooper didn't have. The main goal of that Philly game was really just to make sure players didn't get hurt before the playoffs.
 

khiladi

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To be honest I dont remember the first 2 games of that season, and the other 2 were games he should not have been in the game.
And it wasnt the lack of a good rb, it was that losing murray caused linehan and I guess jg to change the offense away from what it was
with murray in 2014.

Losing murray caused that change and it was significant.
Had they drafted elliot that year instead of 16, they would have probably stayed with the same philosophy and strategy as in 14.

And even though the rb group they had was decent, losing murray changed the mindset of the players and the play caller linehan.

And Romo on that 1 drive was a small sample, and really just showcased his passing skills. Had he played more he would have needed elliot.

Zach Martin was working through a neck injury, Leary got hurt i believe in the first game and Dallas ended up playing with Bernadeau the majority of the season, starting the second week and Leary played only four games that year, Dallas was still trying to figure out their RB, aka Randle, Lance Dunbar... Dez had the high ankle sprain and played only a partial season.

But Dallas lost the first game in 2014 as well to the 49ers and Romo threw 3 of his 9 INTs in that game alone.
 
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Asklesko

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"IF" ?? IF he broke? I didn't know there was any doubt about it. That "IF" is just wishful thinking.
And that's coming from a long time avid Romo fan. I was sick of Drew Bledsoe and was rooting for Romo before he became a starter, but at least some of us knew that when it was time for him to quit, it was time for him to quit.

Obviously, it was good for him to quit after that year. But there was still that playoff run he would have been good for. We'll never know.
 

AtomicDog

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I wonder how things would have played out in 2016 if Romo got his job back once he became healthy.

Perhaps he could have taken the team all the way to the Superbowl like he almost did in 2014.

Perhaps Romo could have played one more season and Dak would only have 2018 and 2019 as being a starter for this team. His value would most likely be worth less because 2017 was a down year for Dak.

Perhaps he could've got re-injured and Dak would've stepped back in only further proving Romo's durability issues.

But to this day I still think Garrett and Jones did Romo dirty by not giving him his starting job back.

Jason Garrett.....*shivers*
Dak played so good Romo said I'm retiring. C'mon people. Dak was a beast his rookie season.
 

G2

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Yeah, you’re a lying troll who was caught in a lie. You were corrected and that’s it. Dak had 23 passing TDs and Romo had 34 TDs on less attempts. You knew presenting it like that didn’t make your weak argument look good. No matter how frustrated and full of rage you get about it, your lies don’t change that. You can crawl back under your rock now.
I bet you're super fun at party's.
 
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