Looking back: Was it a mistake not to go back to Romo

Buzzbait

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"IF" ?? IF he broke? I didn't know there was any doubt about it. That "IF" is just wishful thinking.
And that's coming from a long time avid Romo fan. I was sick of Drew Bledsoe and was rooting for Romo before he became a starter, but at least some of us knew that when it was time for him to quit, it was time for him to quit.

"IF" he broke his back again, he may never have walked again, or he may have lived with pain the rest of his life. The best thing that could've happened to Romo was to get out when he got out.
Even if no one else cared, I'm sure his family is thankful that he's still in one piece. That's worth a lot more than risking his health for the long term.
 

SultanOfSix

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LOL. I've dealt with many word salad defenders of the CONSPIRACY! angle on this one so this is nothing new. Again, I ask, if Pereira was wrong, who fact checked him? Other than Cowboys fans, why doesn't the grand expose exist? You have good reason to not want to accept the mechanics of the rule so of course you won't accept that the actual keepers of the rules also can't explain them. They don't even have to because of the way they're written. I get it though. Willfully obtuse is a strategy.

If you "have time" to perform a football move, attempt one and don't complete it, you didn't have time. Lol. That's all there is on the main rule.

On Item 1, more word salad but you again conveniently leave out: "must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground" which is the first sentence and backdrop of the entire rule. You leave this out AGAIN because it dispels your isolated "sequence" charade meant to take away context. That sentence refers to losing control of the ball at any point ("throughout") in the process of contacting the ground including Dez losing control of the ball from hitting the ground and then rolling over "before he regains control" per the rule. Incomplete. Why'd you leave out that first sentence? The lawyers on here like your style though, lol.


3rd time asking. Is Dez' attempt at a lunge and reach of the ball as demonstrative and complete as Anquan Boldin's here? Yes or no?

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The NFL is effectively a monopoly. It is judge, jury, and executioner of its own rules. There is no independent arbitrator that can contest or override its rules. It can say whatever it wants post facto whenever there is room for doubt to justify a call it made, even if it is obviously horrible. Unfortunately for them (and you), language submits to a definable set of rules where words refer to concepts that have objective meaning. If they don't write the rules explicitly enough to cover their basis that is their problem. Anyone with an understanding of language can dispute the content from what is written. That is why good lawyers make so much money.

If you "have time" to perform a football move, attempt one and don't complete it, you didn't have time.
Derp. Talk about word salad. The rule explicitly states it is not necessary that he must commit the act provided that he has control long enough to do it. That one can determine whether someone can complete a move or not is not dependent upon them actually completing it. If they complete it, that would confirm it beyond a doubt and there would be nothing to dispute. Duh! There would be no point in specifying Note 1 then. The point is, it is sufficient that he has control and has enough time to execute it, which makes it a judgement call that is entirely contestable. And it is clear from the video that Dez had the control and the time to be able to commit such an act. He simply didn't execute it to the extent of standard that you want him to have. You want it to be comparable to 49er players, even though the context of the play and his motion is completely different from Dez's. The video isn't even a replay to show a similar precedent, but to (possibly) verify that the receiver still had control of the ball when he crossed the plane of the goal line in order for it to be a TD. And I already answered your question why it is irrelevant a number of times which you keep ignoring.
On Item 1, more word salad but you again conveniently leave out: "must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground"
It has nothing to do with "word salad". That's why I asked at what point does the process of contacting the ground end? Why does the process of contacting the ground not end when his right elbow hits the ground, after his two feet hit the ground, the ball is moved from two hands to one, and he lunges with his left foot (as you can see the dirt pop up due to his cleat) to reach over the goal line with the ball secure in his forearm? At that point he would be down by contact which he was marked as. If he wasn't down it should've been called a TD. Yet, somehow you ignore this and want the rule to say that the process of contacting the ground didn't end there and only did so when his left arm hit it and the ball was jarred loose to be popped up into into his helmet and over his forearm. Why? Why doesn't it end when he slides into the end zone rolls forward and over and still secures the ball before it has a chance to hit the ground for him to indisputably lose control? Because that is another point that defeats the words of the rule. "Throughout" signifies nothing that disputes this. A player can hit the ground on his back lose control of the ball by bobbling it while sliding on his back, with the ball never touching the ground and still regain control and it be complete.

All of this is relevant of course because you have to show that it is indisputable from the rule itself that he did not catch the ball, and all I have to show is that there is ample evidence that the catch should stand.

The rule as worded is gone. Why? Because everyone knows it was catch. The commentators, the ref who called it a catch while watching it explicitly, the players on the field, the fans of both teams, etc. All that remains is the remnants to say "well, it was ruled right according to the rules" or that it is a stupid rule. Because admitting that it was a catch means they were wrong and they know it.
 
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SteveTheCowboy

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Couple of points regarding this dumb and tired topic:

1. If it wasn't for Dak Prescott, 2016 would have been a repeat of 2015. If it wasn't for Dak Prescott, there would be no season for Romo to even "save" in 2016. The Giants and the Eagles would have long ran off with the division by the time Romo was ready to play. If Dak didn't perform as a historically great rookie, Romo would have blew out his back trying to save a 1-7 Dallas or Romo wouldn't even had tried to come back at all in 2016 because the Cowboys chances would have been next to zero of even getting to the post-season.

All this BS about how Romo deserved his shot to play in the playoffs would be null and void if not for the play of Dak Prescott. Romo, given 2015, would have had to go 8-0 in the last 8 games to even have a SHOT at getting to the post season. And of course would have needed to actual complete more than 3 games in a row without injury.

2. Speaking of 2015...The Dallas Cowboys did EXACTLY what you wanted them to do in 2016...except they did it in 2015. Romo gets injured...Romo gets inserted back into the QB spot...Romo proceeded to throw pick after pick against the Panthers on Thanksgiving...ending up hurting himself AGAIN...the Cowboys lost all but eliminating them from playoff contention.

This fantasy world that you people like to live in where Romo rides in and saves the day...ALREADY HAPPENED. It happened just the season prior...Guess what? It FAILED miserably.

In 2016, the Dallas Cowboys ALREADY HAD their "savior" in Dak...so unless Romo was good to go play CB...the 2016 Cowboys didn't need Romo. The 2015 Cowboys did though. How come Romo couldn't save that season?

MAYBE if Romo showed that he could win the SB in 2015...maybe the Cowboys would have felt better about repeating the same plan in 2016. Instead, if I am Dallas, I am RIGHTFULLY trying something different and riding the horse that ACTUALLY brought me to the dance.

3. Romo had 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, etc. to go win a SB. MAYBE if Romo showed he could even get to a SB in any of the decade prior to 2016, the Cowboys would have felt the need to go to him in again. However, Romo has never shown the ability to go on a SB run...so AGAIN, I am going with the QB that is ACTUALLY the reason why 2016 wasn't a repeat of 2015: Dak Prescott.


You've got your own little "fantasy world" going on too there!
 

SteveTheCowboy

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"IF" ?? IF he broke? I didn't know there was any doubt about it. That "IF" is just wishful thinking.
And that's coming from a long time avid Romo fan. I was sick of Drew Bledsoe and was rooting for Romo before he became a starter, but at least some of us knew that when it was time for him to quit, it was time for him to quit.



The thing is, Dak gave Romo time to heal for the first time in his career. He usually came back too soon...or just played through injury. Which typically got him MORE hurt. Finally...several months to heal instead of a couple weeks or days. And Dak did good, I might add...a luxury!

The team was so good it allowed a rookie mid rounder (without a ton of college credentials) to succeed. But a vet qb would have crumbled? Come on.

This notion that he would of course been hurt as a known fact is one of the stupidest things I've seen on here, and that is saying a lot.
 

leeblair

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Romo was done. He still had the knowledge, but not the stamina or the mindset to hold up. When he finally left in 2015, he couldn't get out of the game against the Panthers soon enough.
The mistake was not going back to Kellen Moore in 2017.
He is STILL the best quarterback on the team.
If you ask Andy Dalton, he'd probably agree, too. They faced each other in college and Dalton knows how good Moore is- and vice-versa.
Dalton may be more in the Cowboys plans because of Moore than Dak fans care to know.
 

Sarek

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Romo was finished after that last injury. If Romo would have returned he would of just got injured again and again, worse and worse each time. Before that season started i posted on the other old board that Romo wouldn't make it to week 8. He didn't even get close to week 8. Just because Romo made fans feel warm and fuzzy doesn't mean he can play forever. Your feelings and his abilities are two different things.
 

Buzzbait

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The thing is, Dak gave Romo time to heal for the first time in his career. He usually came back too soon...or just played through injury. Which typically got him MORE hurt. Finally...several months to heal instead of a couple weeks or days. And Dak did good, I might add...a luxury!

The team was so good it allowed a rookie mid rounder (without a ton of college credentials) to succeed. But a vet qb would have crumbled? Come on.

This notion that he would of course been hurt as a known fact is one of the stupidest things I've seen on here, and that is saying a lot.
Nobody said it was a "known fact", but considering his frequent and serious injury history it was an intelligent consideration and a pretty realistic possibility. But some fans were so enamored with the idea that Romo could still take us to the promised land that they were willing to risk Romo's health to satisfy their own desires. If it were your own back that suffered all the injuries his back did, we'd see if you still thought it was "stupid".
Like I said before, I'll bet his family's wishes are a lot different than yours.
 

Super_Kazuya

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Nobody said it was a "known fact", but considering his frequent and serious injury history it was an intelligent consideration and a pretty realistic possibility. But some fans were so enamored with the idea that Romo could still take us to the promised land that they were willing to risk Romo's health to satisfy their own desires. If it were your own back that suffered all the injuries his back did, we'd see if you still thought it was "stupid".
Like I said before, I'll bet his family's wishes are a lot different than yours.
Another Dak slobbering quack has entered the building. Thanks for informing us that broken bones are chronic, debilitating injuries. The stupid train keeps on rolling.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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Nobody said it was a "known fact", but considering his frequent and serious injury history it was an intelligent consideration and a pretty realistic possibility. But some fans were so enamored with the idea that Romo could still take us to the promised land that they were willing to risk Romo's health to satisfy their own desires. If it were your own back that suffered all the injuries his back did, we'd see if you still thought it was "stupid".
Like I said before, I'll bet his family's wishes are a lot different than yours.


And yet...he came out to play for the series. If he were so concerned, wouldn't he not? I defer to him more than you.

Unless of course you have some evidence of him saying so?

In the end...I am certainly glad he's relatively healthy. He gave us everything he had and then some. Undrafted, steps into the most storied sports teams ever.....and did good. But hey...thanks for assuming so much about me....good work.
 

pete026

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Ironically I have had the exact same back injuries that Romo suffered during the exact same period of my life. I also had the same treatments to each of the traumas. The only difference was the cause of these injuries because I am obviously not an NFL football player. But I am pretty well versed on back trauma and 2 things stand out to me:

1. I have never been limited on what I could attempt going forward from these traumas (ie I was pretty much guaranteed by my doctors that any trauma event I experienced would not result in any higher risk of a permanent disability other than that which the trauma itself caused)
2. Because of the traumas and the condition of my back, I would always be susceptible to what most people would consider an inconsequential event. (ie my inability to perform routine activities without treatment and down time after that event).

And I just went through what I would guess is my 15th episode resulting in downtime because I didn’t stretch out my back before pulling some weeds in my front yard. But I am sure there is a person here that believes they are more versed on back trauma than I am.
 

OmerV

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No I would state them clearly and not try to add them up to deceive. And no I didn't say it didn't "count". I said that they are not comparable and no one makes the comparison outside of Dak slobberers. When Drew Brees passed Peyton Manning for the all-time TD record, it was for passing TDs. There was no celebration when he passed him in rushing tds + passing tds because nobody cares about rushing tds from a QB. Nobody cares about Dak getting a rushing TD on a fake handoff while 11 defenders chase Zeke, especially other QBs who just actually hand it off to be done with it. And many QBs are forbidden by their coaches to run anyway.
Dak had 23 TD passes and Romo had 34 TD passes.. on less attempts. No matter how hard you try to spin it, there's nothing you can do about it.
Now if you want to also say Dak had 6 rush TDs while Romo had 0, that's fine. No one cares.. that's what Murray was for. The 2014 Cowboys scored more points than the 2016 Cowboys and letting Murray get those TDs worked for that team. What Murray or Zeke can't do is throw TD passes.. and neither can Dak, nearly as well as Romo.
lol - you think childish terms like "Dak Slobberer" makes you seem more credible? Sorry, this is just more evidence you are talking more from emotion and from a juvenile standpoint than from facts.

The point of discussion was stats, and no matter how you prefer to put it, and no matter how juvenile you act. statistically Dak's 2016 was very comparable to Romo's 2014, and Dak's 4903 yard season was very comparable to Romos 4903 yard season. The stats are the stats, no matter how much you pretend a rushing TD doesn't count for as much as a passing TD. Hell, your argument suggests that a QB is no batter statistically if he runs for a TD or takes a sack, and that a fan doesn't care if a QB scores running the ball. Pretty nonsensical really.
 

OmerV

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My point" was throwing out stats. You surely had some sort of agenda...aside form throwing out stats. You don;t just throw out stats unelss you had a point to make. So....not buying it.

I give you that drive because it's what we've got. We actually SAW him run the team. Yes...briefly. Why would you pull him RIGHT AFTER that? Talk about "makes no sense". Let him play....the rest of the game at least.

I am very suspicious...of why Tony was benched after that drive. Doesn't make any sense.

If you are throwing out stats then you are changing the context of the discussion and my comments. You can't reasonably claim I have the agenda when I am commenting within the context and you are not.

See my answer to DandyDon below about not playing Romo after that drive.

There was only one reason to not let romo play another series, and it was because he looked too good, and they didnt want a
qb controversy . I was surprised and disappointed at the time.
However his last pass was a td pass, so maybe he wanted that to be his last play, so I guess that is a possibility.
lol - to suggest this is the only reason is a nonsensical comment. The team was just trying to shake some of the rust off Romo in case Dak got hurt in the playoffs, and they didn't want to push him after getting injured 3 of his previous 4 times to play, and after not having any game contact in 4-5 months. For you to say there is only one conclusion just shows that you have closed yourself off to anything that doesn't fit your agenda.
 

Aviano90

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Ironically I have had the exact same back injuries that Romo suffered during the exact same period of my life. I also had the same treatments to each of the traumas. The only difference was the cause of these injuries because I am obviously not an NFL football player. But I am pretty well versed on back trauma and 2 things stand out to me:

1. I have never been limited on what I could attempt going forward from these traumas (ie I was pretty much guaranteed by my doctors that any trauma event I experienced would not result in any higher risk of a permanent disability other than that which the trauma itself caused)
2. Because of the traumas and the condition of my back, I would always be susceptible to what most people would consider an inconsequential event. (ie my inability to perform routine activities without treatment and down time after that event).

And I just went through what I would guess is my 15th episode resulting in downtime because I didn’t stretch out my back before pulling some weeds in my front yard. But I am sure there is a person here that believes they are more versed on back trauma than I am.
Good points. If you recall the 2014 playoff game against GB, Romo threw a complete pass to Witten in the 3rd quarter for a first down. He was wrapped up and thrown to the ground by the defender after releasing the ball. Romo could barely stand up and walk after the play. He had difficulty finishing the drive just handing the ball off to Murray who got it in the end zone 2 or 3 plays later. It settled down and he was able to complete the last two series after that, the same way he was able to complete the Washington game before realizing he wouldn't be able to play the next week. But this was the type of hit that shouldn't result in discomfort for quarterbacks but did for Romo due to the condition of his back.
 

Super_Kazuya

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lol - you think childish terms like "Dak Slobberer" makes you seem more credible? Sorry, this is just more evidence you are talking more from emotion and from a juvenile standpoint than from facts.

The point of discussion was stats, and no matter how you prefer to put it, and no matter how juvenile you act. statistically Dak's 2016 was very comparable to Romo's 2014, and Dak's 4903 yard season was very comparable to Romos 4903 yard season. The stats are the stats, no matter how much you pretend a rushing TD doesn't count for as much as a passing TD. Hell, your argument suggests that a QB is no batter statistically if he runs for a TD or takes a sack, and that a fan doesn't care if a QB scores running the ball. Pretty nonsensical really.
Yeah, you’re a lying troll who was caught in a lie. You were corrected and that’s it. Dak had 23 passing TDs and Romo had 34 TDs on less attempts. You knew presenting it like that didn’t make your weak argument look good. No matter how frustrated and full of rage you get about it, your lies don’t change that. You can crawl back under your rock now.
 

OmerV

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Yeah, you’re a lying troll who was caught in a lie. You were corrected and that’s it. Dak had 23 passing TDs and Romo had 34 TDs on less attempts. You knew presenting it like that didn’t make your weak argument look good. No matter how frustrated and full of rage you get about it, your lies don’t change that. You can crawl back under your rock now.
lol - I stated how many TD's Dak had, accurately, so how is that a lie. I didn't claim passing TD's I claimed the number of TD's he had - you calling it a lie even though it is clearly a true number is grasping at something prop up your weak position. For you to act as if the goal of a QB isn't to scored TD's but rather only to score on passing TD's is plain laughable, and it's stupid to suggest that Dak is somehow a lesser player for using all his talents instead of only his arm.
 

Super_Kazuya

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lol - I stated how many TD's Dak had, accurately, so how is that a lie. I didn't claim passing TD's I claimed the number of TD's he had - you calling it a lie even though it is clearly a true number is grasping at something prop up your weak position. For you to act as if the goal of a QB isn't to scored TD's but rather only to score on passing TD's is plain laughable, and it's stupid to suggest that Dak is somehow a lesser player for using all his talents instead of only his arm.
Like I said you’re a lying troll who was caught in a lie. You were corrected and that’s it. Dak had 23 passing TDs and Romo had 34 TDs on less attempts. You knew presenting it like that didn’t make your weak argument look good. No matter how frustrated and full of rage you get about it, your lies don’t change that. You can crawl back under your rock now.
 

Aviano90

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lol - I stated how many TD's Dak had, accurately, so how is that a lie. I didn't claim passing TD's I claimed the number of TD's he had - you calling it a lie even though it is clearly a true number is grasping at something prop up your weak position. For you to act as if the goal of a QB isn't to scored TD's but rather only to score on passing TD's is plain laughable, and it's stupid to suggest that Dak is somehow a lesser player for using all his talents instead of only his arm.
# 9 of Parcell's QB Commandments - Passing stats and TD passes are not how you’re gonna be judged. Your job is to get your team in the endzone and that’s how you’re gonna be judged.
 

OmerV

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Like I said you’re a lying troll who was caught in a lie. You were corrected and that’s it. Dak had 23 passing TDs and Romo had 34 TDs on less attempts. You knew presenting it like that didn’t make your weak argument look good. No matter how frustrated and full of rage you get about it, your lies don’t change that. You can crawl back under your rock now.
lol - well, if stating an accurate number is a lie, I'll be the liar, and you can keep pretending that you are being accurate by treating TD's a QB gets with his feet as if they aren't actual TD's for the QB. While you're at it, why don't you petition the NFL to have Dak's rushing TD's disallowed, and if the team won by less than 7 points have the wins nullified.
 

OmerV

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# 9 of Parcell's QB Commandments - Passing stats and TD passes are not how you’re gonna be judged. Your job is to get your team in the endzone and that’s how you’re gonna be judged.

Exactly. A QBs job is to get the ball in the end zone, not only to get it in the end zone with a pass.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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If you are throwing out stats then you are changing the context of the discussion and my comments. You can't reasonably claim I have the agenda when I am commenting within the context and you are not.

See my answer to DandyDon below about not playing Romo after that drive.


lol - to suggest this is the only reason is a nonsensical comment. The team was just trying to shake some of the rust off Romo in case Dak got hurt in the playoffs, and they didn't want to push him after getting injured 3 of his previous 4 times to play, and after not having any game contact in 4-5 months. For you to say there is only one conclusion just shows that you have closed yourself off to anything that doesn't fit your agenda.


Okay fair enough about your stats. Just gonna have to let this one go. Me? I never claimed to not have agenda, EVER...in fact I said mine earlier...er somewhere. :confused:

So you think the coaching staff was aware enough to get Tony some playing time "just in case"? Well why wouldn't they have done the same for Cooper? In some meaninglessness time frame....put him out there and see what happens. "just in case"...like the last game of the year? I am not gonna say there was only ONE reason....but "shake the rust off just in case" sounds about as made up and unlikely as any other reason. Just my humble opinion of course.
 
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