Losing L. Allen, gaining K. Kosier - pros and cons

[Stash]

Larry Allen, the strongest player ever, is also the best lineman ever.

Hmm......



If you knew anything about anything, you would know it is the scheme, not the players, who make Denver's system work.

Was the best Junior. Was the best.

What good is his strength if he can't get to the guy he's supposed to block?

This isn't the '95 Cowboys anymore. They're not looking to simply maul people and drive block all day. The current Cowboys require their players to actually move - and Allen can't. He can block in a phonebooth - that's it.

And plenty of guys get into the Pro Bowl on name.

Think Mike Vick deserved to make it?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Larry Allen was and still is the strongest player to ever step foot onto a football field. Kyle Kosier's most famous play involves him getting bulldozed by and OLB half his size. Larry Allen couldnt be pushed down by Lavar Arrington if he wanted to be.

I remember Larry Allen get bulldozed by Reggie White once. It happens to every O-Lineman once in awhile.


Rich.........

 

[The30YardSlant]

It's not exactly the scheme. Plenty of teams utilize the same blocking scheme. It's the coaching, the conditioning, the playcalling, the scouting and other factors that make Denver such a good running team year in and year out.

If the scheme was so perfect, they could just afford to pay the bare minimum for O-Linemen and would always run and pass protect well. Instead they do draft O-Linemen and are not afraid to go the higher rounds to get them and as Pittsburgh showed, their O-Line can be manhandled.

Rich.........

Wrong. Only the Atlanta Falcons and the Denver Broncos base their offense around the zone-blocking scheme. The only NCAA teams that use it are Penn State, Oklahoma State, and Minnesota.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Was the best Junior. Was the best.

It doesnt matter, it disproves your "speed is more important that strength" theory. LA has always been slow as it relates other offensive linemen, that didnt stop him from dominating every D-Linemen he ever faced.

And blocking in a phone booth is better than not blocking at all.

 

[Vintage]

Was the best Junior. Was the best.

What good is his strength if he can't get to the guy he's supposed to block?

This isn't the '95 Cowboys anymore. They're not looking to simply maul people and drive block all day. The current Cowboys require their players to actually move - and Allen can't. He can block in a phonebooth - that's it.

And plenty of guys get into the Pro Bowl on name.

Think Mike Vick deserved to make it?

Well, not to nitpick, but it depends on your definition of what the Pro Bowl should be.

The game is for the fans and the players for entertainment.

Both the fans and the players thought Vick should be in the Pro Bowl; and he was invited.

And there might not be a player more entertaining to watch than Vick...so yeah, you could say Vick deserved to go....according to his fans and his peers.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I remember Larry Allen get bulldozed by Reggie White once. It happens to every O-Lineman once in awhile.


Rich.........

Are we REALLY going to compare Reggie White, the best DE ever, to Lavar Arrington?

 

[Hoov]

uh oh, someone took HH's bait, my crystal ball tells me here comes another 100 + post thread with 50% coming from HH.

 

[Stash]

Well, not to nitpick, but it depends on your definition of what the Pro Bowl should be.

The game is for the fans and the players for entertainment.

Both the fans and the players thought Vick should be in the Pro Bowl; and he was invited.

And there might not be a player more entertaining to watch than Vick...so yeah, you could say Vick deserved to go....according to his fans and his peers.

Show me where his "peers" voted him in.

It's the clueless fans who don't know what a quarterback is who voted him in.

Just like they vote in names they recognize over names who deserve it.

They wreck all of the "All-Star" voting the same way.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Wrong. Only the Atlanta Falcons and the Denver Broncos base their offense around the zone-blocking scheme. The only NCAA teams that use it are Penn State, Oklahoma State, and Minnesota.

Umm, that's wrong. In fact that's way wrong.

Philly, Seattle, Tampa, New Orleans (did), Green Bay, San Francisco (in '05) and the Jets (in '05) based their offense around the zone blocking scheme. There were other offenses that utilized plenty of zone blocking as well (i.e. Washington, Tennessee, Jacksonville, etc). Plus, from what little I watch of college football, Syracuse used the same blocking scheme as well.


Rich........

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Are we REALLY going to compare Reggie White, the best DE ever, to Lavar Arrington?

It's not like Arrington is some weak defensive back. Nobody has ever questioned Arrington's physical prowess.


Rich.........

 

[Seven]

uh oh, someone took HH's bait, my crystal ball tells me here comes another 100 + post thread with 50% coming from HH.

Get yo' popcorn ready....................then pop in a movie.

 

[Vintage]

Show me where his "peers" voted him in.

It's the clueless fans who don't know what a quarterback is who voted him in.

Just like they vote in names they recognize over names who deserve it.

They wreck all of the "All-Star" voting the same way.

Again, its who the fans want to see....the Pro Bowl is an entertainment game for the fans and the players....key word, being entertainment.

There might not be an individual with the excitement of Vick in the league.... be it good or bad, he is exciting to watch.

And I'll search for the link when I get home tonite; but isn't the votes totaled as 1/3 from the fans, 1/3 from coaches and 1/3 from the players?

Or what is it?

 

[Stash]

It doesnt matter, it disproves your "speed is more important that strength" theory. LA has always been slow as it relates other offensive linemen, that didnt stop him from dominating every D-Linemen he ever faced.

And blocking in a phone booth is better than not blocking at all.

Never said it was "more important" just that brute strength alone doesn't get it done. In case you hadn't noticed (and apparently you didn't), this isn't your '90's Cowboys anymore. The coaches are different, the players are different, and the scheme is different. Larry Allen doesn't fit what the current coaching staff is asking the linemen to do - it's that simple.

He doesn't have the skills to pull and block on the move which this staff requires. He actually limited what the team did last year and now with a more mobile lineman, they can run a more "even" offense.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Umm, that's wrong. In fact that's way wrong.

Philly, Seattle, Tampa, New Orleans (did), Green Bay, San Francisco (in '05) and the Jets (in '05) based their offense around the zone blocking scheme. There were other offenses that utilized plenty of zone blocking as well (i.e. Washington, Tennessee, Jacksonville, etc). Plus, from what little I watch of college football, Syracuse used the same blocking scheme as well.


Rich........

Um, sorry, but you are incorrect. Perhaps they had plays designed for zone-blocking, but only Atlanta and Denver have an entire offense built around it.

And Syracuse runs a man to man blocking scheme, which explains why their O-Line is so putrid at times.

 

[The30YardSlant]

It's not like Arrington is some weak defensive back. Nobody has ever questioned Arrington's physical prowess.


Rich.........

Yes, but compared to Reggie White......

That's like comparing a locomotive to a BMW

 

[Stash]

Again, its who the fans want to see....the Pro Bowl is an entertainment game for the fans and the players....key word, being entertainment.

There might not be an individual with the excitement of Vick in the league.... be it good or bad, he is exciting to watch.

And I'll search for the link when I get home tonite; but isn't the votes totaled as 1/3 from the fans, 1/3 from coaches and 1/3 from the players?

Or what is it?

And here I though the Pro Bowl was about honoring the league's best players, not simply "entertaining" the fans....

I would be interested to see if the players voted Mike Vick into the Pro Bowl if you can find it.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Never said it was "more important" just that brute strength alone doesn't get it done. In case you hadn't noticed (and apparently you didn't), this isn't your '90's Cowboys anymore. The coaches are different, the players are different, and the scheme is different. Larry Allen doesn't fit what the current coaching staff is asking the linemen to do - it's that simple.

He doesn't have the skills to pull and block on the move which this staff requires. He actually limited what the team did last year and now with a more mobile lineman, they can run a more "even" offense.

So not being able to pull is worse than being able to pull, and just getting blown up when you do it?

Okay.....

 

[Vintage]

And here I though the Pro Bowl was about honoring the league's best players, not simply "entertaining" the fans....

I would be interested to see if the players voted Mike Vick into the Pro Bowl if you can find it.

It is what it is....

I forgot what year it was, but IIRC, Vince Carter was leading an All Star Vote despite the fact he had missed most of the first half of the season.

The fans simply wanted to see Vince Carter play.

Same applies for Vick. Vick is exciting to watch play.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Um, sorry, but you are incorrect. Perhaps they had plays designed for zone-blocking, but only Atlanta and Denver have an entire offense built around it.

And Syracuse runs a man to man blocking scheme, which explains why their O-Line is so putrid at times.

No, those teams utilize zone blocking in its entirity. And I can tell you that Syracuse uses it because:

1) The offensive blocking scheme was brought in by Brian Pariani, a long time Denver assistant and now Houston assistant with Kubiak.

2) A family friend of mine is on the coaching staff.

Syracuse deploys a zone-blocking scheme, relying more on the linemen's hands, quickness and getting low on blocks than power. Most of Rhodes' yardage against Buffalo came on cutback runs to the backside of the offense with the offensive line washing defenders down the line of scrimmage to create the back-cut openings.
http://www.thesabre.com/news_archive/showArticle-1432.php

Seattle uses a version of a zone-blocking scheme to get a hat on a hat and allow Alexander to pick a hole after he gets the ball.
http://warroom.sportingnews.com/nfl/matchups/sample/away.html

With the Packers placing a higher premium on speed than pure power at fullback in their new zone blocking scheme, Herron is being asked to display any versatility he has
http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2006/06/13/1/

Gruden prefers an I-formation or a one-back set to the standard split backfield that Walsh used and also relies on zone-blocking.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html

Rich..........
recalls when Dallas tried to use zone blocking in 2002 under Frank Verducci and it didn't turn out so well.

 

[Stash]

So not being able to pull is worse than being able to pull, and just getting blown up when you do it?

Okay.....

Let me get this straight, you're basing your entire opinion of Kosier on one Youtube video?

That tells me all I need to know...........