Recommended Loss Forensics: Romo vs. the League's Top QB

[Apollo Creed]

Maybe they didn't all see it or didn't understand... We will give them one more chance.

Just your run of the mill heated Romo debate.

 

[KJJ]

This struck me as funny. Most of the time it's the insane person who thinks he's right and everyone else is crazy.

Didn't say I was right said I was outnumbered.

 

[peplaw06]

I've done the work providing facts to back up my theory.

Well don't leave us in suspense. Let's see it.

Percy's stats will never put an end to the stigma Romo has until he starts winning elimination games and a championship. He can start thread after thread with stat after stat and it will never change the perception many have of Romo until he starts winning the games that matter most.

I don't care about stigmas and perceptions. I don't care if they change or not, especially when they are based on a bunch of hurt feelings.

What I care about is you lying to this forum and saying you know the rule, when you don't. It would be more accurate for you to say, "these media guys don't like our QB gais. I'm scared they're right."

 

[gimmesix]

Didn't say I was right said I was outnumbered.

So you don't think you're right? That explains a lot.

 

[WhizKid]

I don't have the link to that post they no longer have a search function but I can't believe some of you are arguing that a QB's TD to turnover ratio doesn't have a great impact in games especially in postseason. Like I said just look at the last 5 SB's and compare the TD to turnover ratio of the winning and losing QB. LOL

If you click on your profile page and then the tab that says "postings" you will have all of what you have written on the forum. Your link lies there. Go get it.

Also, that bolded part, you should list the 10 QBs and the parameters involved instead of requesting everyone you are trying to convince to obtain them. This is your argument and your work to provide the evidence. BUT, if you have written this already, you could go to your profile page and just provide the link to your post. Pretty easy.

 

[dragon_mikal]

I watched every game, let me guess you're going to tell me Romo was perfect and it was all the defense right?

No he wasn't perfect but he was sure as hell good enough to take a team with a below average defense to the playoffs. Instead management fielded a dumpster fire on the defensive side with predictable results. Funny thing is the team still almost made the postseason.

Romo deserves props for last season not blame.

 

[peplaw06]

A QB's TD to turnover ratio impacts the outcome of games more than any other stat in the playoffs and SB. Turnovers will get you beat especially in post season. The last 5 SB's back up my theory.

The last 11 playoff games prove your theory is as likely to correlate to winning as winning the opening coin flip. That doesn't back up your theory.

Now it's 5 games. holy cow.

 

[Aurican]

No he wasn't perfect but he was sure as hell good enough to take a team with a below average defense to the playoffs. Instead management fielded a dumpster fire on the defensive side with predictable results. Funny thing is the team still almost made the postseason.

Romo deserves props for last season not blame.

Who is blaming him? I stated I think he's good but not elite like Brady or Manning is that blaming him?

 

[dstovall5]

Years when Dallas pass defense ranked 20th or worse, QB ranked top 10:

1974
2006
2008
2011
2012
2013

Might as well just rename it to the "Romo Era".

 

[KJJ]

What I care about is you lying to this forum and saying you know the rule, when you don't. It would be more accurate for you to say, "these media guys don't like our QB gais. I'm scared they're right."

I don't lie you're just looking to stir it up. You pulled the same exact thing a couple of weeks ago. The mods are coming in and a warning just came down in this thread so I'm done with you.

 

[gimmesix]

I watched every game, let me guess you're going to tell me Romo was perfect and it was all the defense right?

I think this is where the argument splits for a lot of us. Few would say that Romo is perfect in every game (few QBs are). He makes mistakes just like every QB. However, he has a much smaller window for mistakes than a lot of the top QBs. He can't afford to throw 5 TDs against Denver and 1 int., for example, because his defense doesn't give him that luxury. His fumbles are magnified because the defense can't get the ball back. He can't afford to miss on passes because the running game hasn't shown it can carry the load when necessary.

There are no perfect QBs. I was watching Roger the Dodger in some old playoff games I have on tape and he was absolutely struggling at times, but the running game and defense bailed him out time and time again until Staubach was able to make some plays.

 

[percyhoward]

It's good to have an open mind on the subject, we all have opinions but you can't have a discussion without listening to what the other side has to say.

It would be interesting to see real applications and examples of games where the defense has completely been to blame for the loss and Romo has played excellent. Which losses from the past season would you say were solely the defense"s fault and Romo played great?

Make your list and I'll weigh in.

 

[5Stars]

I think this is where the argument splits for a lot of us. Few would say that Romo is perfect in every game (few QBs are). He makes mistakes just like every QB. However, he has a much smaller window for mistakes than a lot of the top QBs. He can't afford to throw 5 TDs against Denver and 1 int., for example, because his defense doesn't give him that luxury. His fumbles are magnified because the defense can't get the ball back. He can't afford to miss on passes because the running game hasn't shown it can carry the load when necessary.

There are no perfect QBs. I was watching Roger the Dodger in some old playoff games I have on tape and he was absolutely struggling at times, but the running game and defense bailed him out time and time again until Staubach was able to make some plays.

Team game, not a one man show.

 

[peplaw06]

I don't have the link to that post they no longer have a search function

Quit making lame excuses and go find it in your posting history if it exists. I did that with mine.

but I can't believe some of you are arguing that a QB's TD to turnover ratio doesn't have a great impact in games especially in postseason.

No one's arguing that it doesn't have a great impact in games. It's probably no more important in the postseason than it is in the regular season, or negligibly so...

Like I said just look at the last 5 SB's and compare the TD to turnover ratio of the winning and losing QB. LOL

Why limit it to 5 games?

How about the last 11 games?? (Posted here for you again, in case you missed it.)

2013 postseason

KC vs. IND: Alex Smith 4 TD, 0 INT, 1 Fumble Lost; Andrew Luck 4 TD, 3 INT. Smith wins TD to turnover ratio, loses the game 45-44.
SD vs. DEN: Philip Rivers 2 TD, 0 INT; Peyton Manning 2 TD, 1 INT. Rivers wins TD to turnover ratio, loses the game 24-17.
NE vs DEN: Brady threw 1 TD, Manning threw 2. There were no turnovers in the game. Denver won 26-16. You can't say either QB won the TD to turnover ratio, because there were no turnovers. Your thesis wouldn't apply in this game.
SF vs GB: Kaepernick 1 TD, 1 INT; Rodgers 1 TD, 0 INT, no turnovers. Rodgers wins TD to turnover ratio, loses 23-20.
PHI vs NO: Brees 1 TD, 2 INT; Foles 2 TD, 0 INT, no turnovers. Foles wins TD to turnover ratio, loses 26-24.
NO vs SEA: Brees 1 TD, 0 INT, no turnovers; Wilson 0 TD, 0 INT. Brees wins TD to turnover ratio, loses 23-15.

This is just from the last postseason. There are only 11 games.More than half of them disprove your thesis.

Based on these games, the opposite of your theory is true. See what I mean by small sample size?

 

[Aurican]

Denver, Green Bay, Detroit.

Averaged 38 points a game in those losses.

Okay you listed 3, Green Bay is debatable Romo wasn't excellent in that game throwing an interception with 2:58 left in the game from his own 30 yard line while being ahead 36-31. That led to a TD by Green Bay which made the game 37-36. Dallas got the ball back with 1:30 on the clock and Romo was intercepted again to end the game.

 

[percyhoward]

Might as well just rename it to the "Romo Era".

None of us--not even long-time fans--had any concept of this dynamic prior to 2006. That might explain some current attitudes.

 

[DallasEast]

I know that this thread has been hit with the "opinion made fact" nonsense that has infected countless others. However, I would like to put to rest self-interpretations about research because some definitions have been gravely flawed. Research methodology varies between disciplines but there are two main types: quantitative and qualitative. I stole the following basic comparative outline from Simply Psychology:

http://www.simplypsychology.org/qualitative-quantitative.html
​

Scientists and laymen alike have used the qualitative method in establishing and testing theories for centuries. It is subjective and builds upon observation essentially. What should be pointed out is that both methods are strengthened and subsequently validated by detailed extensive gathering of data.

Unquestionably, Percyhoward's OP is an irrefutable example of quantitative research. Is it debatable research? Of course. ALL research, no matter how substantial, has been debated.

How can research be debated logically and reasonably? With equally formulated research. It can be quantitative versus qualitative, quantitative versus quantitative, or qualitative versus qualitative. However, the data presented must stand up to tests of logic and substance, not opinion and conjecture.

In summary, in a thread that's approaching 50 pages, no one has done JACK to challenge percyhoward's OP in this thread. Squat. Nada. Zlitch. And that's perfectly fiine. No one is forced to like anything. However, it is beyond pathetic for anyone to offer essentially JACK to counter the OP and hide behind an opinion made-fact-defense. It is laughable. It is sad. And most importantly, it is BELOW the standards of adult credibility.

/end

 

[5Stars]

Okay you listed 3, Green Bay is debatable Romo wasn't excellent in that game throwing an interception with 2:58 left in the game from his own 30 yard line while being ahead 36-31. That led to a TD by Green Bay which made the game 37-36. Dallas got the ball back with 1:30 on the clock and Romo was intercepted again to end the game.

2:58 left in the game and Romo throws a INT.

In about two minutes, Green Bay marches down and scores...is that Romo or the defense?

1:30 left, Romo is trying to win the game and throws a INT. Did Romo or did the Dallas Cowboys lose that game?

 

[Aurican]

2:58 left in the game and Romo throws a INT.

In about two minutes, Green Bay marches down and scores...is that Romo or the defense?

1:30 left, Romo is trying to win the game and throws a INT. Did Romo or did the Dallas Cowboys lose that game?

Okay so would you say he played excellent, that was the criteria. He turned the ball over on his own side of the field what do you expect from a bad injured defense?

 

[iceberg]

Quit making lame excuses and go find it in your posting history if it exists. I did that with mine.No one's arguing that it doesn't have a great impact in games. It's probably no more important in the postseason than it is in the regular season, or negligibly so... Why limit it to 5 games?

How about the last 11 games?? (Posted here for you again, in case you missed it.)

2013 postseason

KC vs. IND: Alex Smith 4 TD, 0 INT, 1 Fumble Lost; Andrew Luck 4 TD, 3 INT. Smith wins TD to turnover ratio, loses the game 45-44.
SD vs. DEN: Philip Rivers 2 TD, 0 INT; Peyton Manning 2 TD, 1 INT. Rivers wins TD to turnover ratio, loses the game 24-17.
NE vs DEN: Brady threw 1 TD, Manning threw 2. There were no turnovers in the game. Denver won 26-16. You can't say either QB won the TD to turnover ratio, because there were no turnovers. Your thesis wouldn't apply in this game.
SF vs GB: Kaepernick 1 TD, 1 INT; Rodgers 1 TD, 0 INT, no turnovers. Rodgers wins TD to turnover ratio, loses 23-20.
PHI vs NO: Brees 1 TD, 2 INT; Foles 2 TD, 0 INT, no turnovers. Foles wins TD to turnover ratio, loses 26-24.
NO vs SEA: Brees 1 TD, 0 INT, no turnovers; Wilson 0 TD, 0 INT. Brees wins TD to turnover ratio, loses 23-15.

This is just from the last postseason. There are only 11 games.More than half of them disprove your thesis.

Based on these games, the opposite of your theory is true. See what I mean by small sample size?

SPANKED!!!