LVE or Hernandez?

[LatinMind]

Pick 19. It’s down to these two. Trading back is not an option. Who do you take and why?
My thoughts?

Will- the pros: plug and play LG. Nasty run blocker. Allows us to leave Collins at RT and allows Fleming to be the swing. For better or worse the identity of this team is the OL and the run game so keep stocking it with talent. Keeping the other offense off the field helps the D.
Cons. Yet another 1st round pick on the OL. Won’t be able to keep them all. And a whole bunch of other holes remain open.

LVE- the pros: would fill perhaps the biggest hole on the team- MLB. Off the charts athlete with coverage ability that makes him ideal in this scheme. Would be a 3 down player which is huge. Only scratching the surface.
Cons. Only scratching the surface. Boom or bust type, only one huge year of production. Some say he isn’t physical enough given his size. Can we afford a miss?

I’m really torn. What say you CZ?

Neither

 

[cowboyec]

22 players have accepted the NFL Invitation to be present at the draft.
the 19th player listed(we pick at 19)....Leighton Vander Esch,LB-Boise St.
just sayin'.

 

[Keithfansince5]

Between those 2 LVE. Dallas needs upgrades all over the place on defense. He is an upgrade.

 

[Sydla]

We had a defense last season, best one we have had in years but our offense took a step back because we were missing Zeke, and this O-line had not been what it was prior and plus we had no depth.

Add someone like Hernandez, we are most likely running all over defenses again, and also have adaquate depth in case of injury (Tyron), with Fleming.

We have all the rest of those draft picks to utilize on our already much improved defense. As of the moment we will have Irving for the whole season, possibility of Gregory returning, Taco in year 2, and the addition of Ealy who is very solid player even if the last two I mentioned don't pan out.



Point is, getting this offense back on track is key to this teams clock control identity. Our defense is already better than where we were at in those past p/o games, and alot of picks there still to improve that D further.

The defense was mediocre last year.

Where did this story line that we had a good defense come from? The fact that they finished high in yards allowed, which is a horrendous indicator of defensive strength? Most other major defensive stats and advanced analytical stat showed this defense was average to below average. I tend to put more value in efficiency driven stats like points per game, yards per rush, QB rating as opposed to just raw totals in yards.

Points Per Game - 13th
QB Rating Defense - 26th
Interceptions - 24th
Sacks - 15th
Yards Per Rush - 16th
Fumbles - 15th

Football Outsiders DVOA - 25th
Football Outsiders WEI - 15th
Football Outsiders Pass D - 18th
Football Outsiders Rush D - 21st

By no real measure other than total yards, was this defense really any good.

And again, why do we need an OG at 19 to go with our other four first round talents to have a good OL? Are you actually suggesting that an OG from UTEP is the glue that will hold this OL together?

Egads.

 

[Sydla]

Hernandez and then Josie Jewell in 2nd!

If this came to pass, I might lock myself in the bathroom and cry in the shower for 2 days.

 

[John813]

LVE 9 out of 10 times.

 

[TruBluSince1982]

The defense was mediocre last year.

Where did this story line that we had a good defense come from? The fact that they finished high in yards allowed, which is a horrendous indicator of defensive strength? Most other major defensive stats and advanced analytical stat showed this defense was average to below average. I tend to put more value in efficiency driven stats like points per game, yards per rush, QB rating as opposed to just raw totals in yards.

Points Per Game - 13th
QB Rating Defense - 26th
Interceptions - 24th
Sacks - 15th
Yards Per Rush - 16th
Fumbles - 15th

Football Outsiders DVOA - 25th
Football Outsiders WEI - 15th
Football Outsiders Pass D - 18th
Football Outsiders Rush D - 21st

By no real measure other than total yards, was this defense really any good.

And again, why do we need an OG at 19 to go with our other four first round talents to have a good OL? Are you actually suggesting that an OG from UTEP is the glue that will hold this OL together?

Egads.

The problem I see with basing our understanding of defensive strength using a few simple stats is usually folks are not accounting for the ton of variables behind those stats. The sites that put these stats together even even acknowledge that they simply cannot account for all those variables, which means someone "has to" "you" in order to arrive at a more accurate analysis. Meaning good ol eyeballs and noggin.

Not saying you are not accounting for those things but I have no idea.

Like you state, NFL.com has us ranked 8th in yards given up per game.

Aikman Efficiency has us ranked 8th in total defense.

We gave up 318.1 yards per game and 20.8 points per game.

Comparitivly...

NE gave up 366 yards per game and 18.5 points per game.

PHI gave up 306.5 yards per game and 18.4 points per game.

Now offensively...

Dallas ranked 14th with 331.9 yards per game and "22.1" points per game.

Comparitively...

NE ranked 1 with 394.2 yards per game and "28.6" points per game

PHI ranked 7 with 365.8 yards per game
and "28.6" points per game.


The "biggest" difference here between us and two Superbowl teams is clearly offensive production and scoring. Our defense was missing Irving for 8 games (big contributer), our secondary was full of rooks that got much better as the season progressed. Our D-line is most likely going to look the best it has in years with the addition of Ealy, 2nd year of Taco, and possibility of Gregory's return. I suspect our secondary will be much better because if it, not to mention just simply their progress as the last season went along. Hitchens should be easy to replace. We have a bevy of picks to solidify the linebacking corps and saftey.

But getting this offense back in gear is the key, so yes I think that OG from UTEP is the glue that will solidify this offense and get them back on track along with that addition of Fleming as that ST. A first round pick LB isn't going to help Dak's accuracy (longer and better protection will). A first round pick LB isn't going to help Zeke run roughshod over defenses (which by the way also helps Dak). This offense and running game needs to get back to where it was previously.

Time of possession ranking.

2014 3rd
2015 10th
2016 3rd
2017 12th

Oh and I don't like the thought process of moving Collins to guard and Fleming to tackle. Say we do this and Tyron's back gives out at some point. Who are we replacing him with? Some rookie 4th/ 5th round pick?? Sure sounds like another recipe for disaster to me. Nope I'll take the top guard which leaves us with a very good ST Fleming for depth.

 

[reddyuta]

If this came to pass, I might lock myself in the bathroom and cry in the shower for 2 days.

Jewell should not be drafted till the 5th RD.

 

[conner01]

Given only two option I take G
But I think there will be other options
My wet dream is finding a way to add another second rnd pick

 

[Klingo3034]

Given only two option I take G
But I think there will be other options
My wet dream is finding a way to add another second rnd pick

Need another first. Give up next years picks if next year's draft not loaded or worth our needs.

 

[Klingo3034]

Get Will, get LVE both in first, get Kyzir or good safety in 3rd. 2nd maybe DT.

 

[conner01]

Need another first. Give up next years picks if next year's draft not loaded or worth our needs.

A first is probably not an option
It would be a very heavy cost, but I don’t have a problem trading a future pick just don’t want to gut the first 3 rnds next year

 

[AmishCowboy]

Jewell should not be drafted till the 5th RD.

No way!

 

[reddyuta]

No way!

sorry but a LB who runs a 4.82 is a non starter for me,I will be hard pressed to find LBs that slow who still play in the NFL.

 

[Sydla]

The problem I see with basing our understanding of defensive strength using a few simple stats is usually folks are not accounting for the ton of variables behind those stats. The sites that put these stats together even even acknowledge that they simply cannot account for all those variables, which means someone "has to" "you" in order to arrive at a more accurate analysis. Meaning good ol eyeballs and noggin.

Not saying you are not accounting for those things but I have no idea.

Like you state, NFL.com has us ranked 8th in yards given up per game.

Aikman Efficiency has us ranked 8th in total defense.

We gave up 318.1 yards per game and 20.8 points per game.

Comparitivly...

NE gave up 366 yards per game and 18.5 points per game.

PHI gave up 306.5 yards per game and 18.4 points per game.

Now offensively...

Dallas ranked 14th with 331.9 yards per game and "22.1" points per game.

Comparitively...

NE ranked 1 with 394.2 yards per game and "28.6" points per game

PHI ranked 7 with 365.8 yards per game
and "28.6" points per game.


The "biggest" difference here between us and two Superbowl teams is clearly offensive production and scoring. Our defense was missing Irving for 8 games (big contributer), our secondary was full of rooks that got much better as the season progressed. Our D-line is most likely going to look the best it has in years with the addition of Ealy, 2nd year of Taco, and possibility of Gregory's return. I suspect our secondary will be much better because if it, not to mention just simply their progress as the last season went along. Hitchens should be easy to replace. We have a bevy of picks to solidify the linebacking corps and saftey.

But getting this offense back in gear is the key, so yes I think that OG from UTEP is the glue that will solidify this offense and get them back on track along with that addition of Fleming as that ST. A first round pick LB isn't going to help Dak's accuracy (longer and better protection will). A first round pick LB isn't going to help Zeke run roughshod over defenses (which by the way also helps Dak). This offense and running game needs to get back to where it was previously.

Time of possession ranking.

2014 3rd
2015 10th
2016 3rd
2017 12th

Oh and I don't like the thought process of moving Collins to guard and Fleming to tackle. Say we do this and Tyron's back gives out at some point. Who are we replacing him with? Some rookie 4th/ 5th round pick?? Sure sounds like another recipe for disaster to me. Nope I'll take the top guard which leaves us with a very good ST Fleming for depth.

You seem to be implying our defense was just a notch below Philly’s.

That’s hard to fathom.

Also hard to fathom is how an OG from UTEP is the difference between being an average offense and a great offense. That Elliott can’t run wild unless we add Hernandez to an OL that already has four first round talents on it. Think how preposterous that sounds. That despite having arguably the best C in football, the best OG in football, one of the best LTs in football and an up and coming RT, they can’t succeed until you use a first round pick on an OG front UTEP.

You can have a great OL without blowing the 19th pick on an OG.

 

[4th_and_short]

The problem I see with basing our understanding of defensive strength using a few simple stats is usually folks are not accounting for the ton of variables behind those stats. The sites that put these stats together even even acknowledge that they simply cannot account for all those variables, which means someone "has to" "you" in order to arrive at a more accurate analysis. Meaning good ol eyeballs and noggin.

Not saying you are not accounting for those things but I have no idea.

Like you state, NFL.com has us ranked 8th in yards given up per game.

Aikman Efficiency has us ranked 8th in total defense.

We gave up 318.1 yards per game and 20.8 points per game.

Comparitivly...

NE gave up 366 yards per game and 18.5 points per game.

PHI gave up 306.5 yards per game and 18.4 points per game.

Now offensively...

Dallas ranked 14th with 331.9 yards per game and "22.1" points per game.

Comparitively...

NE ranked 1 with 394.2 yards per game and "28.6" points per game

PHI ranked 7 with 365.8 yards per game
and "28.6" points per game.


The "biggest" difference here between us and two Superbowl teams is clearly offensive production and scoring. Our defense was missing Irving for 8 games (big contributer), our secondary was full of rooks that got much better as the season progressed. Our D-line is most likely going to look the best it has in years with the addition of Ealy, 2nd year of Taco, and possibility of Gregory's return. I suspect our secondary will be much better because if it, not to mention just simply their progress as the last season went along. Hitchens should be easy to replace. We have a bevy of picks to solidify the linebacking corps and saftey.

But getting this offense back in gear is the key, so yes I think that OG from UTEP is the glue that will solidify this offense and get them back on track along with that addition of Fleming as that ST. A first round pick LB isn't going to help Dak's accuracy (longer and better protection will). A first round pick LB isn't going to help Zeke run roughshod over defenses (which by the way also helps Dak). This offense and running game needs to get back to where it was previously.

Time of possession ranking.

2014 3rd
2015 10th
2016 3rd
2017 12th

Oh and I don't like the thought process of moving Collins to guard and Fleming to tackle. Say we do this and Tyron's back gives out at some point. Who are we replacing him with? Some rookie 4th/ 5th round pick?? Sure sounds like another recipe for disaster to me. Nope I'll take the top guard which leaves us with a very good ST Fleming for depth.

You make good points and I agree the offense needs a starting caliber LG to really get humming again.

However, I do believe one can be taken at 50 because G has more depth than LB at the top imo. After Evans/LVE there is a significant drop in talent for MLB. The difference between Hernandez and say Price/Smith/Ragnow is less so.

 

[Sydla]

Jewell should not be drafted till the 5th RD.

4th round for me.

 

[Sydla]

You make good points and I agree the offense needs a starting caliber LG to really get humming again.

However, I do believe one can be taken at 50 because G has more depth than LB at the top imo. After Evans/LVE there is a significant drop in talent for MLB. The difference between Hernandez and say Price/Smith/Ragnow is less so.

I tend to agree there will be OL help later in this draft.

But again, this team should be able to find a competent guard, not great one, and with what we already have, be able to plow people. If the difference between what we have being average and what we have being great is a LG................... guess what? We have bigger problems than just LG.

 

[Chuck 54]

No one has Hernandez rated as highly as Dallas fans. Many have him as the 4th best interior lineman. 19 is way too high for him. I’m sensing LVE or WR or DE if an impact player drops.

 

[4th_and_short]

I tend to agree there will be OL help later in this draft.

But again, this team should be able to find a competent guard, not great one, and with what we already have, be able to plow people. If the difference between what we have being average and what we have being great is a LG................... guess what? We have bigger problems than just LG.

Agree. I’m not knowledgeable about the Gs projected in the later rounds but I could see one being picked at 50 from the few I named if the board falls that way.