LVE or Hernandez?

[Chuck 54]

I tend to agree there will be OL help later in this draft.

But again, this team should be able to find a competent guard, not great one, and with what we already have, be able to plow people. If the difference between what we have being average and what we have being great is a LG................... guess what? We have bigger problems than just LG.

I’ll agree on part of this, but OL is not man on man. Having a weakness in the middle weakens those around him because they cannot be at their best. We don’t need a great LG, but we need someone much better than Cooper was. Our LG needs to be good in pass pro and very good in space.

 

[Sydla]

I’ll agree on part of this, but OL is not man on man. Having a weakness in the middle weakens those around him because they cannot be at their best. We don’t need a great LG, but we need someone much better than Cooper was. Our LG needs to be good in pass pro and very good in space.

And yet you look at teams with great OLs and they aren't exactly stacked at every single OL position, which is what people are arguing we should be doing here.

And Cooper wasn't that bad when Smith was next to him. Once Smith started ailing, Cooper wasn't as effective.

 

[cnuball21]

I’ll agree on part of this, but OL is not man on man. Having a weakness in the middle weakens those around him because they cannot be at their best. We don’t need a great LG, but we need someone much better than Cooper was. Our LG needs to be good in pass pro and very good in space.

Coop was fine, he played like an avg NFL starter.

 

[waving monkey]

Hernandez is specifically a LG. We need a RT.

As far as who is the BPA, that's close, too close to call.

And did you forget that we signed Fleming? He's our RT, Lael goes back to G, we're set.

Keeping Collins at RT and drafting a LG is the simplest move. Fleming is not a full time starter he is a good
swing tackle. Going into training camp with Fleming starting at RT for the full year is uncertain.

 

[cnuball21]

Keeping Collins at RT and drafting a LG is the simplest move. Fleming is not a full time starter he is a good
swing tackle. Going into training camp with Fleming starting at RT for the full year is uncertain.

He started for the Pats and they have a statue at QB.


Not saying he's a stud, but he's certainly adequate.

 

[waving monkey]

He started for the Pats and they have a statue at QB.


Not saying he's a stud, but he's certainly adequate.

http://www.patriots.com/team/players/roster/cameron-fleming

he may be OK but from last year's experience I'm a little gun shy of sketchy offensive line squads.
I'm thrilled thinking of him as a swing tackle

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Pick 19. It’s down to these two. Trading back is not an option. Who do you take and why?
My thoughts?

Will- the pros: plug and play LG. Nasty run blocker. Allows us to leave Collins at RT and allows Fleming to be the swing. For better or worse the identity of this team is the OL and the run game so keep stocking it with talent. Keeping the other offense off the field helps the D.
Cons. Yet another 1st round pick on the OL. Won’t be able to keep them all. And a whole bunch of other holes remain open.

LVE- the pros: would fill perhaps the biggest hole on the team- MLB. Off the charts athlete with coverage ability that makes him ideal in this scheme. Would be a 3 down player which is huge. Only scratching the surface.
Cons. Only scratching the surface. Boom or bust type, only one huge year of production. Some say he isn’t physical enough given his size. Can we afford a miss?

I’m really torn. What say you CZ?

Vander esch. Cowboys have M. Martin, Looney and Edwards as LG candidates. Are they at least adequate? Maybe not, but you've got 3 bona fide guards to try there.

Who do they have at MLB? J. Smith, essentially that's it, unless you count Lee, but I don't think anyone wants him back at MLB, due to the injury factor and how good he plays at Will.

LVE is defintely a good athlete and has a college pedigree that indicates he will be able to handle the pro game. So does Hernandez, and if LVE isn't available at 19, I'd have no problem with Hernandez at 19. I just think that when you factor in the bpa as well as need, LVE is the better choice...

 

[DiResta]

He started for the Pats and they have a statue at QB.


Not saying he's a stud, but he's certainly adequate.

when you have Peyton Manning or Tom Brady calling protections though
not easy to fool those guys
little shuffle in the pocket is all they need
same with Brees he could be very mobile but is great at setting up protection where he can stay in there

 

[cnuball21]

when you have Peyton Manning or Tom Brady calling protections though
not easy to fool those guys
little shuffle in the pocket is all they need
same with Brees he could be very mobile but is great at setting up protection where he can stay in there

Still have to beat the man in front of you.

If he was so terrible he would've looked like Green against the Falcons and kept them from the SB.

 

[John813]

Looking at Flemings starts, it showed that he at least lined up at LG once(2015).
But can't find anything about how he did there.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlemCa00.htm

I would assume they'll have Collins battle Fleming for RT and if Collins loses then it would make sense to throw him at LG.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

It's not like Collins was bad a left guard, he was moved to right tackle because of Free's retirement. So if he moves back to guard it will be at worst equal to last year at the left guard position, and probably better.

I did see an article yesterday indicating Collins himself wants to stay at tackle, guess so, tackle money tends to be a bit better than guard, if for no other reason..

 

[DiResta]

Still have to beat the man in front of you.

If he was so terrible he would've looked like Green against the Falcons and kept them from the SB.

sure hes a decent guy i just mean a qb like Brady will see your blitz and get the ball out or change the play most of the time making his lines job much easier
not to mention Belichick isnt going to let some jag tee off on Brady 6 times without getting help in there

 

[kskboys]

Keeping Collins at RT and drafting a LG is the simplest move. Fleming is not a full time starter he is a good
swing tackle. Going into training camp with Fleming starting at RT for the full year is uncertain.

No one knows this. Flemming right now is a talented unknown.

I think you guys have repeated the word "swing tackle" so much that you've convinced yourself w/o even really knowing what the term means.

A swing tackle is a backup. After 4 years or so at NE filling the extra OLineman role, it's highly unlikely that Flemming is coming here just to be a backup, and it's also highly unlikely that we signed him strictly to be a backup.

At NE, Flemming filled the role of extra blocker. So, can he start? Odd are that he is not a bad starter. And w/ our big 3, we just need solid at the other two positions. I don't know how this will play out, but it could easily be that Fleming and Lael are both starters wherever they are needed. At present, I doubt if we have a better player than Fleming as the 5th OL.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

No one knows this. Flemming right now is a talented unknown.

Yes, the o-line is thought by many to be basically settled, with T. Smith, Frederick and Martin set in stone, and Collins likely at RT.

But with Fleming, M. Martin, Edwards and J. Jones "floating" around, we could see like last year 40% of the o-line shuffled...

 

[CATCH17]

It would be nice if we could trade back for 1 then trade back up for the other.

 

[DiResta]

It would be nice if we could trade back for 1 then trade back up for the other.

better still what if Vea makes it into the teens and Dallas trades up
then trades back up into the late 1st for either Esch or Evans pick your flavor
Vea plus Vander Esch in the middle would be a huge improvement on defense
push the pocket and let the ends eat ,speed outside from the linebackers and that force in the middle
next year draft a tackle or guard depending on how Lael is used

Dallas would only need that free safety if you had that roster on defense
wont happen
but thats the dream

 

[CATCH17]

better still what if Vea makes it into the teens and Dallas trades up
then trades back up into the late 1st for either Esch or Evans pick your flavor
Vea plus Vander Esch in the middle would be a huge improvement on defense
push the pocket and let the ends eat ,speed outside from the linebackers and that force in the middle
next year draft a tackle or guard depending on how Lael is used

Dallas would only need that free safety if you had that roster on defense
wont happen
but thats the dream

We don't have the ammo to move up twice like that IMO.

If we move up for Vea at minimum our 3rd is gone.. So how will we get back in the 1st with our 2nd rounder?

 

[Klingo3034]

better still what if Vea makes it into the teens and Dallas trades up
then trades back up into the late 1st for either Esch or Evans pick your flavor
Vea plus Vander Esch in the middle would be a huge improvement on defense
push the pocket and let the ends eat ,speed outside from the linebackers and that force in the middle
next year draft a tackle or guard depending on how Lael is used

Dallas would only need that free safety if you had that roster on defense
wont happen
but thats the dream

Doubt we can move up just for Vita. If we can't get Vita we get some else and trade up to first again for LVE.

 

[waving monkey]

No one knows this. Flemming right now is a talented unknown.

I think you guys have repeated the word "swing tackle" so much that you've convinced yourself w/o even really knowing what the term means.

A swing tackle is a backup. After 4 years or so at NE filling the extra OLineman role, it's highly unlikely that Flemming is coming here just to be a backup, and it's also highly unlikely that we signed him strictly to be a backup.

At NE, Flemming filled the role of extra blocker. So, can he start? Odd are that he is not a bad starter. And w/ our big 3, we just need solid at the other two positions. I don't know how this will play out, but it could easily be that Fleming and Lael are both starters wherever they are needed. At present, I doubt if we have a better player than Fleming as the 5th OL.

Thats a reasonable assumption but I think it over looks his limited starter experience. If I were part of the war room committee I would spend high capital on offensive lineman talent but thats just me.

 

[Floatyworm]

LVE has way too much bust potential.
Hernandez is a day one starter with pro bowl potential.

Just take Hernandez and be happy the oline is dominant and Zeke is breaking off huge chunks of yardage.

The running game is the Cowboys best defensive player.

Here is the problem....Hernandez is so over rated. The guy is a stiff weightroom slugger...w/ limited mobility. Meh...

If you want that..you can get practically the same guy in Wyatt Teller....

Give me the guy that's gonna be the heart and soul of your defense for the next decade. I can't even believe this is even a debate.