Manning put up numbers in 2005; some still questioning the position

[ABQCOWBOY]

I do not see him getting better, at least so far. I have not seen him do much but the same old same old. With his basic inaccuracy, and his hot head and ego, I am not one who keeps predicting greatness. I just do not see it.

If you look to the numbers he's put up, they would seem to indicate that he has, in fact, gotten better.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

That is why stats sometimes can be so misleading. Stats do not show WHEN a INT was made. Stats do not show WHEN an inaccurate pass prevented a first down. That is why Manning looks bad- he picked quite often the worst possible moment to throw a pick or miss on a pass. There have been quaterbacks over the years that had great stats and were not all that good.
Danny White finished his career with a better rating then Roger did- but he was nowhere near the QB Roger was. Kurt Warner will end probably end his career with a higher rating then Roger. When Roger retired only Otto Graham had a higher QB rating. Now he is something like 10th or 12th. You cannot tell me in the last 20 years that there are 10 better QB's.

I was gonna get in this and you beat me to it. Thank you
He throws and changed the outcome of the game more than Bledsoe. He is making really bad decisions... Bledsoe threw some of his when we were going into half time or game was out of reach.

Personally I think unless they do a "jake-the-snake-the-ball-out-of-the-Qb's--hands" on Eli his int's will increase...

Jake was fine last year(reg season) until he had to throw to win a playoff game and we all know what happened then...

 

[Jarv]

Goose only used yards and TD's. QB's who rack up overall nice totals but blow in efficiency stats tend to be discredited. Eli's no more held to a higher standard than Drew Bledsoe or Vinny Testeverde are because they're never recognized as Top 10 All Time QB's even though they rank among the all time highest in total yards and TD's.

Just like there seems to be a butting of heads between statisticians and traditional baseball people on the relevency of a category like "wins" for a pitcher, I see the same thing coming for "TD's" by a QB. I, myself, think its a relatively meaningless stat because no two TD's are the same. If a QB zips a 15 yard post to a WR between 2 defenders .. absolutely he should be credited with a TD stat. When a team drives down the length of the field running the ball down the defense's throats, and then the QB completes a 4 yard pass in the back of the endzone to a wide open TE on a play action pass because the defense expects/fears the run ... I don't necessarily think the QB should be accredited as being responsible for the 6 points. Or if Donovan McNabb throws a simple, run of the mill, 5 yard slant to Terrell Owens and TO breaks 3 tackles, jukes out another defender and takes it 70 yards to the house, how much was McNabb responsible for the TD? In fact, a QB can often times be credited with a TD on a poor play, such as just throwing the ball up in the air for grabs deep.

If a QB A throws a key 15 yard completion on a 3rd down and 9 on the 40 yard line between three defenders that keeps a scoring drive alive that's later punched in by his RB and QB B completes an 8 yard fade to the back of the endzone where the WR has to do 90% of the work to outjump the cornerback to come down with the catch ... I thnk QB A was more pivitol to his team scoring a touchdown, even though he wasn't credited with a TD.

Great post IR !

 

[kartr]

Couldn't agree more. I think the kid deserves a lot of credit. Not many could do what he did under the New York media microscope.

Exactly, this writing off of qb's with less than four years of starting experience is rediculous, even Peyton had his share of troubles early on.

 

[kartr]

Manning sorta did a "Drew Bledsoe" imitation season-- I would expect him to be more like "Peyton Manning" this year.

Seems to me that Bledsoe did a 'Eli Manning' impression as the season got older

 

[kartr]

Nah.

I think plenty of players could have put up big games against San Diego, St. Louis, Philly late, and New Orleans, and then been frighteningly mediocre the rest of the year.

And Bledsoe struggled to put up good numbers against the Rams without Bulger for crissakes.

 

[burmafrd]

Manning had a much better O line and much better running game. And he still got worse. Bledsoe was getting pressured all the time.

 

[superpunk]

And Bledsoe struggled to put up good numbers against the Rams without Bulger for crissakes.

Was that Bulger eating Pettiti's lunch on the right side?

Cuz I could have sworn that was Leonard Little.

 

[burmafrd]

The whole team just about laid down in the rams game; no spirit, no fight. Only a moron would blame bledsoe.

 

[kartr]

You may be right.

But I would rather have Manning's potential at this point. In another year or so we're going to be looking for another starting QB-- and I don't relish the thought.

I agree completely. Manning has the potential to get better, but we know Bledsoe will do the opposite.

 

[kartr]

You have a point.

But I guess I would rather have a guy that gets to the playoffs and chokes rather than a guy that doesn't get to the playoffs period-- I guess that would make someone like that a "season-choker" aye?

Bootiful man, bootiful.

 

[kartr]

good points;
I would say Eli is probably a little better than we'd like to give him credit for...but the above points are pretty valid too. He crumpled and looked like a deer in headlights in a lot of clutch situations despite solid surrounding talent.
Gos' notes on Eli are further proof that stats don't NECESSARILY tell the whole story or sometimes even half of it.
I'll always think Steve Young was one of the most overrated QBs of all time but he was a stat hog. Should have never gotten a ring.

Those game changing interceptions and fumbles sound more like Bledsoe than Manning. In your second year, you're supposed to make those mistakes, but certainly not in your 13th year.

 

[ZeroClub]

If I were a Giants fan, I'd be concerned about Eli's progress.

He's had some strong games, but he sure did seem to fade as the season wore on.

The jury is still out on this guy.

 

[kartr]

I think it is a tossup about who is the most over rated QB in NFL history between Steve Young and Elway.

What are you smokin' bud, they're two of the most competitive qb's in NFL history.

 

[kartr]

Bledsoe's completion percentage and yds per attempt were higher and he had one fewer TD pass. That with an OL much worse than the Giant's OL, a RB that was worse than the Giants's RB, and a receiving corps that was about the same from top to bottom.

Eli gets the benefit of inexperience, but he was scarily inaccurate at times.

Given the choice of the two for this upcoming year only, I would take Bledsoe. I think his veteran leadership will be able to keep the ship sailing smoothly along, while Owens would just eat Manning alive.

Bledsoe's veteran leadership or lack thereof is what got him booted from New England and Buffalo for lesser experienced guys.

 

[kartr]

I don't understand this characterization of this player.

He threw 17 INTs last year and that's a healthy amount but that's also as many as our own Bledsoe threw with one more TD to show for it. In fact, if you really look at it, his INT to Pass Attempt ratio is better then our own QB. Manning averaged 1 INT for every 32.76 attempts. Our own Bledsoe threw 1 INT every 26.41 Attempts. Interstingly enough, here is what the top QBs looked like in this regard.

Tom Brady 37.85
Trent Green 50.7
Brett Favre 20.93
Carson Palmer 42.41
Kerry Collins 47.03
Peyton Manning 45.3
Drew Brees 33.33
Matt Hasselbeck 49.88
Jake Delhomme 27.18
Jake Plummer 65.14


If you look at it from this perspective, I don't really think that Eli did all that poorly. None of the guys who are listed in the top 12 or so are young guys other then Palmer (who I happen to believe is the best young QB in the league). For as many times as Eli threw, he didn't do all that badly considering. JMO I suppose.

I think you're right on the money, I didn't see Harrington,Carr or Vick on that list. There seems to be some over the top dislike for qb's in our division, but it's not their fault that we didn't select them.

 

[kartr]

Well, I don't know about that completely, burm. The highest pct. of his INTs did come when his team was ahead by 1-7 points, or down by 1-7, more than half, so that could be accurate, but I don't think it can be said with any authority. He did throw 4 INTs in the red zone, although none within 10 yards.

My biggest problem with him is (a) beating up on inferior defenses, while coming up small on higher ranked D's and (b) sailing passes over his receiver's heads. It is amazing, IMO, that he didn't throw more INT's doing that. He got lucky, because generally overthrows like that result in picks.

Bledsoe beat inferior defenses too and threw balls at his receivers feet, threw to the wrong receiver and threw to the wrong team, all in his 13th year.

 

[jem88]

Manning is both over rated and at the same time given a lot more credit then he deserves.

Redundant statement of the year.

 

[kartr]

Was that Bulger eating Pettiti's lunch on the right side?

Cuz I could have sworn that was Leonard Little.

The Rams only have one pass rusher and a weak secondary and their 3rd string qb playing, yet you still make excuses for him.

 

[burmafrd]

Kartr, why are you here? Q is not part of the discussion.