Manning put up numbers in 2005; some still questioning the position

[Pittman4Two]

Guys, great research on young Eli. Look at his completion % against the Cowboys. You'll notice that it is below 50%.

 

[burmafrd]

So far he is 30-29 TD's/INT's for his career. 5 times last season he was under 50% completion. only TWICE did he go over 60%. Not once did he have a real good game against any D that had a good Pass D. His career completion% is 51.6
I really do not see what others claim they see in him.

 

[Pittman4Two]

I agree with burma.

Eli's lucky the Pewter D isn't in his conference, otherwise he'd have an even tougher time getting over 50% completions.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Adam, the only number that Manning was better at was the int percentage. And again, this was with a better overall cast around him on offense. It's pretty clear that Bledsoe was the better overall QB last year. With a better supporting cast, I expect Bledsoe to have a better year again.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Adam, the only number that Manning was better at was the int percentage. And again, this was with a better overall cast around him on offense. It's pretty clear that Bledsoe was the better overall QB last year. With a better supporting cast, I expect Bledsoe to have a better year again.

The whole problem with this argument is that Manning is likely to get better...

Bledsoe?

Probably not.

 

[burmafrd]

I really do not see the signs that Manning is going to get much better; and he has to get a lot better to be as good as Bledsoe.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The point that seems to be lost here is that Bledsoe should be better. He should be significantly better. Not a few yards better or a couple picks or TDs. He's a 13 year vet. Last season, Manning was a second year player. This can be spun in any direction desired but the truth is still the truth. Bledsoe should be vastly superior to Eli. Based off last years numbers, I don't think you can say that. Better cast or whatever but the Giants were horrible two seasons ago. They have put together pretty good talent but lets not say that there supporting cast is that much better then our own. Talent levels throughout the East are close.

If Eli were our QB, everybody on this board would be bending over backwards to make known that he is still young and inexperienced. Because he's a Giant, he is supposed to be an All Pro in his second season?

I hope all of you who think Manning is overrated and not nearly as good as the hype are correct. I honestly do. However, I'm affraid that is not going to be the case and we are going to have to deal with it for 10 years. That's going to be a bummer.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The point that seems to be lost here is that Bledsoe should be better. He should be significantly better. Not a few yards better or a couple picks or TDs. He's a 13 year vet. Last season, Manning was a second year player. This can be spun in any direction desired but the truth is still the truth. Bledsoe should be vastly superior to Eli. Based off last years numbers, I don't think you can say that. Better cast or whatever but the Giants were horrible two seasons ago. They have put together pretty good talent but lets not say that there supporting cast is that much better then our own. Talent levels throughout the East are close.

If Eli were are QB, everybody on this board would be bending over backwards to make known that he is still young and inexperienced. Because he's a Giant, he is supposed to be an All Pro in his second season?

I hope all of you who think Manning is overrated and not nearly as good as the hype are correct. I honestly do. However, I'm affraid that is not going to be the case and we are going to have to deal with it for 10 years. That's going to be a bummer.

Morning ABQ.

Very well said.

The 'homerism' on this board is downright frightening at times. Like you I can't believe they are taking the numbers of a 2nd year QB and trying to project those as being his "ultimate potential" numbers. The logic of that whole argument just stuns me. I can't believe people are that (insert your own word for someless exhibiting less than a 3-digit IQ).

And you're right-- Bledsoe should be better-- a lot better. The guy is the 17th ranked passer in the NFL and this board thinks he's "Johnny U". Just flat-out amazing.

 

[Doomsday101]

Morning ABQ.

Very well said.

The 'homerism' on this board is downright frightening at times. Like you I can't believe they are taking the numbers of a 2nd year QB and trying to project those as being his "ultimate potential" numbers. The logic of that whole argument just stuns me. I can't believe people are that (insert your own word for someless exhibiting less than a 3-digit IQ).

And you're right-- Bledsoe should be better-- a lot better. The guy is the 17th ranked passer in the NFL and this board thinks he's "Johnny U". Just flat-out amazing.

I agree. I think people are being very narrow minded when talking about a kid who played in his 1st full season last year and yet think there is no way he can improve? I know a lot of the disdain for Manning is the incident that took place on draft day when he refused to go to SD so I understand that however Elway did the same thing and yet is looked at differently?

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Actually, Bledsoe is at an age where you should see diminishing returns. I don't think anyone believes he is better now than he was 6 or 7 years ago. The fact that he is still outplaying some of the young guns is encouraging, especially given the support he got from the OL last year. Remember how strong he was when we had our entire supporting cast out there.

The thing is, we don't have a Manning, or Palmer, or someone similar. So we have to be satisfied right now with an older guy that is still capable of some big wins and in general isn't going to lose games for us.

I'd love to have Carson Palmer. I'd love to have a top 5 pick to get the best QB out there. But we don't. I think for this year, that Bledsoe gives us the best chance of winning out of any QB that was available through the draft or free agency. Next year? Well, that's next year.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I agree. I think people are being very narrow minded when talking about a kid who played in his 1st full season last year and yet think there is no way he can improve? I know a lot of the disdain for Manning is the incident that took place on draft day when he refused to go to SD so I understand that however Elway did the same thing and yet is looked at differently?

I'm scared to death that this guy is in the division. He could keep the Giants as playoff contenders for years to come.

And with our QB-cupboard rather untested after Bledsoe, I'm rather envious of the Giants at this point.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

And let me correct...I do not agree that Manning isn't going to get better. In reality, he had a very good year considering his age and experience. If you look back at Bledsoe's past, he had a couple years where his accuracy was down there in Eli range.

Eli has shown an ability to lead the team back from deficits. He is likely to get better.

But what difference does it make? We don't have a young franchise QB. We aren't miraculously going to get one. No one in the NFL is going to feel sorry that the Cowboys don't have another Troy Aikman or Roger Staubach.

But the fact is Bledsoe had a better year than Manning did with less overall in his favor. This year, if the OL pans out, I think Bledsoe can have a significantly better year than he did last year. Is Manning going to have a significantly better year? The Giants really haven't upgraded the offense as far as I can tell. Manning's improvement will solely be based on his increased experience. Maybe a few more TD's, fewer int's, some better decision making.

 

[superpunk]

I agree. I think people are being very narrow minded when talking about a kid who played in his 1st full season last year and yet think there is no way he can improve? I know a lot of the disdain for Manning is the incident that took place on draft day when he refused to go to SD so I understand that however Elway did the same thing and yet is looked at differently?

Narrow-minded?

Dooms - can you point to one person in this thread who has said that there is no way Manning can improve? Or are you just reading what you want to see, so you can point and laugh at the silly homers?

Manning has a TON of work to do, to get his game to the point where he is not a big liability - to the point where he can carry his team - not have his team carry him. You seem to say that as long as Manning shows up next year, he'll be better. You take a cursory look at those 24 TD passes and dont bother wondering how he got them, or what other flaws he may have had in his game. You assume the rest of his team will maintain their pace - particularly Tiki Barber, who's near MVP season last year carried the Giants to the playoffs - NOT Eli Manning.

Somehow it's ok for you to dismiss everyone's valid criticism of the player with a wave of the "Everyone hates him for what he did on draft day" wand. It's not that simple.

Eli will improve this year. He has to. Some of us doubt that it's going to be some monumental shift that propels him to the point where - should Tiki falter - Eli can carry this team.

And Eli has shown no signs of being able to do that. Call it narrow-minded if it makes you feel better. I dno't cream over blue-chip QB prospects just because their lineage is hot and they were picked #1 overall. Eli has shown nothing to swerve my thinking on him. He played one real nice game in a comeback against a Denver squad, whose seecondary was trifling last year. Get his bronze bust ready.

 

[Doomsday101]

Narrow-minded?

Dooms - can you point to one person in this thread who has said that there is no way Manning can improve? Or are you just reading what you want to see, so you can point and laugh at the silly homers?

Manning has a TON of work to do, to get his game to the point where he is not a big liability - to the point where he can carry his team - not have his team carry him. You seem to say that as long as Manning shows up next year, he'll be better. You take a cursory look at those 24 TD passes and dont bother wondering how he got them, or what other flaws he may have had in his game. You assume the rest of his team will maintain their pace - particularly Tiki Barber, who's near MVP season last year carried the Giants to the playoffs - NOT Eli Manning.

Somehow it's ok for you to dismiss everyone's valid criticism of the player with a wave of the "Everyone hates him for what he did on draft day" wand. It's not that simple.

Eli will improve this year. He has to. Some of us doubt that it's going to be some monumental shift that propels him to the point where - should Tiki falter - Eli can carry this team.

And Eli has shown no signs of being able to do that. Call it narrow-minded if it makes you feel better. I dno't cream over blue-chip QB prospects just because their lineage is hot and they were picked #1 overall. Eli has shown nothing to swerve my thinking on him. He played one real nice game in a comeback against a Denver squad, whose seecondary was trifling last year. Get his bronze bust ready.

I call them the way I see them if you don't like it too bad. I have read the comments and it comes off as Manning is not going to get better and is nothing more than a weak link. I could understand that if we were talking about a 4th year or 5th year starter not a kid who just finished his 1st full season which seems to go right over your head.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I call them the way I see them if you don't like it too bad. I have read the comments and it comes off as Manning is not going to get better and is nothing more than a weak link. I could understand that if we were talking about a 4th year or 5th year starter not a kid who just finished his 1st full season which seems to go right over your head.

Always remember the adage Dooms-- "If he ain't a Cowboy he ain't any good" (nor will he ever be...)

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Narrow-minded?

Dooms - can you point to one person in this thread who has said that there is no way Manning can improve? Or are you just reading what you want to see, so you can point and laugh at the silly homers?

Manning has a TON of work to do, to get his game to the point where he is not a big liability - to the point where he can carry his team - not have his team carry him. You seem to say that as long as Manning shows up next year, he'll be better. You take a cursory look at those 24 TD passes and dont bother wondering how he got them, or what other flaws he may have had in his game. You assume the rest of his team will maintain their pace - particularly Tiki Barber, who's near MVP season last year carried the Giants to the playoffs - NOT Eli Manning.

Somehow it's ok for you to dismiss everyone's valid criticism of the player with a wave of the "Everyone hates him for what he did on draft day" wand. It's not that simple.

Eli will improve this year. He has to. Some of us doubt that it's going to be some monumental shift that propels him to the point where - should Tiki falter - Eli can carry this team.

And Eli has shown no signs of being able to do that. Call it narrow-minded if it makes you feel better. I dno't cream over blue-chip QB prospects just because their lineage is hot and they were picked #1 overall. Eli has shown nothing to swerve my thinking on him. He played one real nice game in a comeback against a Denver squad, whose seecondary was trifling last year. Get his bronze bust ready.

Well, the important thing here is that the Giants don't share in that view. They believe Manning is the future and I agree with them. I think he has shown plenty enough to provide optimisam for them. That is only my opinion of course.

 

[superpunk]

I call them the way I see them if you don't like it too bad. I have read the comments and it comes off as Manning is not going to get better and is nothing more than a weak link. I could understand that if we were talking about a 4th year or 5th year starter not a kid who just finished his 1st full season which seems to go right over your head.

So, I take it noone in the thread said Manning could not improve, then?

We all granted that he can improve? Some of us just question how much in a single offseason - and if this will be enough to carry the Giants should Tiki fall off or that Dline not be as effective. Seems like a legit point to me.

Guess I'm just a narrow-minded homer.

 

[Doomsday101]

Always remember the adage Dooms-- "If he ain't a Cowboy he ain't any good" (nor will he ever be...)

In the eyes of some. I have been a hardcore Cowboys fan longer than some around here have been alive (1965 to the present) yet I have also been a fan of the NFL and football in general and will always recognize talented players even on teams that I may not like. As for Manning, I have never stated he will be a HOF QB or one of the top QB's in the league. I have said and firmly believe he will be a much improved QB as he gains valuable experience.

 

[Doomsday101]

So, I take it noone in the thread said Manning could not improve, then?

We all granted that he can improve? Some of us just question how much in a single offseason - and if this will be enough to carry the Giants should Tiki fall off or that Dline not be as effective. Seems like a legit point to me.

Guess I'm just a narrow-minded homer.

Sorry you were not saying that yesterday, changing the tune? I said nothing about becoming a great QB in a single season I said he will be much improved and I stand by that and more than willing to see how it plays out this upcoming season.

 

[burmafrd]

Unlike some here who claim to see Boys homerism everywhere, I prefer to be skeptical. If a player has never played at a certain level before, then it is valid to say that they never will. Untill they do, they haven't. I have watched football for a long time, and I frankly just do not thing that Manning will get much more accurate then he is now. QB's virtually NEVER are more accurate in the pros then they are in College- not saying it cannot happen, just that it hardly ever has. Manning did not have a high percentage completion in college, and so far he has not shown it in the pros. I see no reason it will substantially improve. He was always a gunlinger and risk taker in college, I see no signs that it is improving. I think he will get better- but I say here and now he will never be as good as his brother, not even close.