Marinelli wins again

[Terrancemcclain]

We butt heads sometimes, but when you're right, you're right and this time, you're definitely right. This 1T argument has become the new "cool" outside the box "I know football look at me" argument around here. Most 43 teams don't have or put much stock in having a big bodied NT style 1T.

That's a ridiculous assertion.it is a perfectly logical position to take since many of the better run defenses in the NFL have invested heavily
In the one tech position such as the eagles, vikings, panthers,and falcons . all of those teams run a 4-3 defense.what logical reason is there for many members of this forum to so staunchly
The idea of the cowboys investing in the one tech position? Are people once again attempting to act as apologists for this coaching staff. By the way I love the snarky remark you threw in.do you always attack those who disagree with you

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

SMH......this mentality....not u the person..but this mentality is ........ poisoning......our fan base suffers from it in droves

Not as much as the delusion that we should have all pros at every position.

DL was never the problem. When Irving was in it was dominant.

 

[Terrancemcclain]

Are you saying they didn't have opportunities before Marinelli?

Did you read my post . I said marinelli was not entirely to blame but he does deserve a majority of it . whose input do you think lead to the cowboys drafting ken bishop or joey ivey when they could have drafted better players at that position like the examples I gave in a previous post.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's a ridiculous assertion.it is a perfectly logical position to take since many of the better run defenses in the NFL have invested heavily
In the one tech position such as the eagles, vikings, panthers,and falcons . all of those teams run a 4-3 defense.what logical reason is there for many members of this forum to so staunchly
The idea of the cowboys investing in the one tech position? Are people once again attempting to act as apologists for this coaching staff. By the way I love the snarky remark you threw in.do you always attack those who disagree with you

Brian Price and Richard Ash were both able to draw and anchor double teams. The issues on run defense were with LB.

And it's more like you are insistent on acting like the coaches are supposed to be accountable to you or that they have anything to be sorry for.

Fact is the 1T fascination is ideology not based in reality.

 

[Haimerej]

Did you read my post .

Yep.

I said marinelli was not entirely to blame but he does deserve a majority of it .

Why? They haven't drafted a DT high since Russell Maryland.

whose input do you think lead to the cowboys drafting ken bishop or joey ivey when they could have drafted better players at that position like the examples I gave in a previous post.

Probably the same guys who have been passing on the position since 1990.

 

[Terrancemcclain]

Brian Price and Richard Ash were both able to draw and anchor double teams. The issues on run defense were with LB.

And it's more like you are insistent on acting like the coaches are supposed to be accountable to you or that they have anything to be sorry for.

Fact is the 1T fascination is ideology not based in reality.

Sir please don't talk down to me that condecending tone. That fact is you once created a post calling for marinelli to be fired around the middle of the season. I remembered it because I agreed with you at the Tim. Now you have seemed to changed positions and become pro marinelli? Yet now you lecture me about how I feel the coaches should be accountable to me or have anything to apologize for .
However that's not the first time you'e
changed poistions.you once called terrell mcclain a underrated nose tackle who was important to the cowboys defense. When the cowboys didnt resign him you said cedric thorton was a younger more reliable player.when the cowboys cut thorton you praised their decision.you also took up contradictory positions on vita vea .you once said although he was a raw prospect the cowboys should draft him if he was avaliable. I remember you said you were and i quote "adament" about both vea and payne.you then spent the remaining time before the draft bashing vea and claimed the cowboys were fine a DT.
.while i agree with you on price i believe richard ash practice squad player who was only add to the roster and saw playing time after price was injured.what happens if price gets injured again ?the cowboys have no real depth at the one tech despite having four or five three techs .basically every other team with a top ten run defense has invested heavly in the defensive tackle position. You claim the lb position was the cowboys defense main weakness this padt season but the cowboys have needed to upgrade the one tech position for the last 4-5 years.
emember the coaching staff was content with Hayden for three seasons. I think we can both agree the cowboys defense was mediocre at best back then.also the cowboys defense gave up over a hundred yards four times while Sean Lee was playing.

The argument the cowboys have finite resources or a limited salary cap as a reason for not investing in a one tech doesnt hold water. The cowboys could have drafted Bennie Logan or johnathan hankens or numerous other DTS in the later rounds over the years and signed them to cheap rookie deals.the broncos signed that tackle from the bengels on a cheap two year deal.there is one example of a way to address the one tech.the eagles drafted Elijah Cummings last year and let beau Allen walk this off eason . there is another example of a smart way to handle

 

[Chrispierce]

They’ve explained why. Because they like flex DTs,or hybrid techs. The FO and staff do not share the traditional NT philosophy on defense. They want versatility,speed to force pressure up the pocket,while able to play the run/pass which is great if you’ve got the right talent. And it is predicated on having a certain talent at the position. You can massage it the way Dallas does to some effect with increased effort,and numbers,but it’s really a concept that one should not only have that the ideal skill set for,but be good at it too. It’s why you see so many line changes,because they lack that right guy. So you could criticize them on both counts for ignoring DT if you like. Not only do they not value your 1T....they don’t even value their own hybrid position enough to draft a top one. Collins is a decent player,and he works in the scheme...but he needs “that guy” next to him,not an endless stream of “Joe Blow’s” Rod likes to coach up. And if you don’t? Well....here we are years later still arguing to upgrade the interior line.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Because at some point reality should set in for this franchise and our GMs have to stop cowtailong to the whims of a DC that likely has a short shelf life.

*kowtowing is the word you're looking for

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

No,his hair is.

LLLOOLLL

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sir please don't talk down to me that condecending tone. That fact is you once created a post calling for marinelli to be fired around the middle of the season. I remembered it because I agreed with you at the Tim. Now you have seemed to changed positions and become pro marinelli? Yet now you lecture me about how I feel the coaches should be accountable to me or have anything to apologize for .
However that's not the first time you'e
changed poistions.you once called terrell mcclain a underrated nose tackle who was important to the cowboys defense. When the cowboys didnt resign him you said cedric thorton was a younger more reliable player.when the cowboys cut thorton you praised their decision.you also took up contradictory positions on vita vea .you once said although he was a raw prospect the cowboys should draft him if he was avaliable. I remember you said you were and i quote "adament" about both vea and payne.you then spent the remaining time before the draft bashing vea and claimed the cowboys were fine a DT.
.while i agree with you on price i believe richard ash practice squad player who was only add to the roster and saw playing time after price was injured.what happens if price gets injured again ?the cowboys have no real depth at the one tech despite having four or five three techs .basically every other team with a top ten run defense has invested heavly in the defensive tackle position. You claim the lb position was the cowboys defense main weakness this padt season but the cowboys have needed to upgrade the one tech position for the last 4-5 years.
emember the coaching staff was content with Hayden for three seasons. I think we can both agree the cowboys defense was mediocre at best back then.also the cowboys defense gave up over a hundred yards four times while Sean Lee was playing.

The argument the cowboys have finite resources or a limited salary cap as a reason for not investing in a one tech doesnt hold water. The cowboys could have drafted Bennie Logan or johnathan hankens or numerous other DTS in the later rounds over the years and signed them to cheap rookie deals.the broncos signed that tackle from the bengels on a cheap two year deal.there is one example of a way to address the one tech.the eagles drafted Elijah Cummings last year and let beau Allen walk this off eason . there is another example of a smart way to handle

I don't think that marinelli knows how to design modern coverage. The defense has struggled in coverage so i wanted to bring someone in who could. Now that we have Richard and I don't feel that coverage design is at issue.

At the same time I have at no point thought that Marinelli's scheme was at issue in run defense. Rod still remains a great developer of defensive talent.

Want to know who else I think is an underrated part of the defense? Stephen Paea, Brian Price, and Richard Ash. Hayden sucked because he could not anchor. Those guys can.

The way you guys carry on it would seem that the Dl was getting blown off the ball and our LBers were having to make gap reads with the los coming at them. That was not the case. Wilson, Smith, and Hitchens kept on filling the wrong gaps.

Fact is that 1T is a 2 down position. Might as well complain that we do not invest in SAM.

Hankins is still out there.

 

[Terrancemcclain]

Yep.



Why? They haven't drafted a DT high since Russell Maryland.
But they signed laroy glover and Jason Ferguson , right? There are other
ways to upgrade the DT position besides the draft.Why do you think the cowboys signed henry Melton and Stephen paea. One of rod's responsibilities as DC is to manage the defense roster , right?

Probably the same guys who have been passing on the position since 1990.

which is why I said it may not be entirely Tod's fault. It is rumored the cowboys were prepared to draft Sharif floyd in the 2o13 draft but rod didn' want them to

 

[Haimerej]

But they signed laroy glover and Jason Ferguson , right? There are other
ways to upgrade the DT position besides the draft.Why do you think the cowboys signed henry Melton and Stephen paea. One of rod's responsibilities as DC is to manage the defense roster , right?

I thought we were talking about the draft. Why say there are other ways to upgrade and bring up the guys they signed?

which is why I said it may not be entirely Tod's fault. It is rumored the cowboys were prepared to draft Sharif floyd in the 2o13 draft but rod didn' want them to

Looks to have been the right move, too. They got an All Pro center and it appears Floyd may never play again.

 

[Terrancemcclain]

I don't think that marinelli knows how to design modern coverage. The defense has struggled in coverage so i wanted to bring someone in who could. Now that we have Richard and I don't feel that coverage design is at issue.

At the same time I have at no point thought that Marinelli's scheme was at issue in run defense. Rod still remains a great developer of defensive talent.

Want to know who else I think is an underrated part of the defense? Stephen Paea, Brian Price, and Richard Ash. Hayden sucked because he could not anchor. Those guys can.

The way you guys carry on it would seem that the Dl was getting blown off the ball and our LBers were having to make gap reads with the los coming at them. That was not the case. Wilson, Smith, and Hitchens kept on filling the wrong gaps.

Fact is that 1T is a 2 down position. Might as well complain that we do not invest in SAM.

Hankins is still out there.

I' glad you brought up up paea because I believe the bears drafted him on the second
Round, which helps prove the point many have made about the need to draft a one tech early. Also the buccaneers draft anthony" booger" mcfarlane.i know mcfarlane played the three tech at times but i believe he was mainly a one tech.i dont know if paea played the three tech too.
I remember many here at cowboys zone were excited when the cowboys signed
Paea. They thought he could help boost the interior pass rush. A good one tech can help
The pass rush by commanding double teams and having under rated pass rushing skills themselves. They are definitely everydown players

One thing I find disrespectful is the way some forum members talk down on defensive tackles the cowboys passed on during the draft. When the colts cut Johnathan hankins , someone here created a post talking town on hankins and said the cowboys were tight to pass on him. Maybe the colts cut him because they have a younger , healthier , likely cheaper DT in grover Stewart.that actually provides another example of a smart way to handle the dt position.
I remember you once talked down on star lotuelei. After the panthers drafter lotuelei in the first and short in the second their run defense improved to second in 2013, up from fourteenth in 2012.

The cowboys could have drafted grady Jarrett or javon hargrove in the later rounds.
Garrett had over forty tackles and three sacks in 2016.hargrove had over thirty tacks and two sacks in 2016.

 

[Haimerej]

I' glad you brought up up paea because I believe the bears drafted him on the second
Round, which helps prove the point many have made about the need to draft a one tech early. Also the buccaneers draft anthony" booger" mcfarlane.i know mcfarlane played the three tech at times but i believe he was mainly a one tech.i dont know if paea played the three tech too.

Why do you say Marinelli holds more blame but bring up two high draft picks that he was involved in choosing?

 

[SportsGuru80]

Please stop beating a dead horse with these 1 technique tackle posts.

 

[Terrancemcclain]

I thought we were talking about the draft. Why say there are other ways to upgrade and bring up the guys they signed?



Looks to have been the right move, too. They got an All Pro center and it appears Floyd may never play again.

Yeah but , they also passed on Bennie Logan and Johnathan hankins.I believe Jason Garrett said that rod gets whoever he wants on defense

 

[Ccijcladac]

Not as much as the delusion that we should have all pros at every position.

DL was never the problem. When Irving was in it was dominant.

U are right in a sense because everyone is under the impression we have to have 1st round talent on the O-LINE to be successful & that's just not true. U know the great Wall of Dallas had journeyman in mark tuinei, Nate Newton, Gogan basically the whole line. As successful as they were & the production they put up, there were no blue-chip first round all Americans. So Im against having steak@ every position. A roster although u may like for doesn't & can't requires a steak@ every position. Im with you on this form of thinking:;'-))

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I' glad you brought up up paea because I believe the bears drafted him on the second
Round, which helps prove the point many have made about the need to draft a one tech early. Also the buccaneers draft anthony" booger" mcfarlane.i know mcfarlane played the three tech at times but i believe he was mainly a one tech.i dont know if paea played the three tech too.
I remember many here at cowboys zone were excited when the cowboys signed
Paea. They thought he could help boost the interior pass rush. A good one tech can help
The pass rush by commanding double teams and having under rated pass rushing skills themselves. They are definitely everydown players

One thing I find disrespectful is the way some forum members talk down on defensive tackles the cowboys passed on during the draft. When the colts cut Johnathan hankins , someone here created a post talking town on hankins and said the cowboys were tight to pass on him. Maybe the colts cut him because they have a younger , healthier , likely cheaper DT in grover Stewart.that actually provides another example of a smart way to handle the dt position.
I remember you once talked down on star lotuelei. After the panthers drafter lotuelei in the first and short in the second their run defense improved to second in 2013, up from fourteenth in 2012.

The cowboys could have drafted grady Jarrett or javon hargrove in the later rounds.
Garrett had over forty tackles and three sacks in 2016.hargrove had over thirty tacks and two sacks in 2016.

I think the team would draft a 1T if they could rush the passer. The guys they could get at later rounds are not doing that. Once Payne and Vea were gone your dream was over.

Price is actually a nice prospect and I think you undervalue him. He anchors well and does disengage. He was playing well when he hurt his knee. Tim Settle is no better than Richard Ash.

 

[Terrancemcclain]

I think the team would draft a 1T if they could rush the passer. The guys they could get at later rounds are not doing that. Once Payne and Vea were gone your dream was over.

Price is actually a nice prospect and I think you undervalue him. He anchors well and does disengage. He was playing well when he hurt his knee. Tim Settle is no better than Richard Ash.

No I've stated several times that I like Brian price.however, will he still be the same player he as before his knee injury?what happens if he gets injured again?why do the cowboys have only two one techs and four or five three tech defensive tackles.Kendrick Norton was avlaluable until the seventh round.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No I've stated several times that I like Brian price.however, will he still be the same player he as before his knee injury?what happens if he gets injured again?why do the cowboys have only two one techs and four or five three tech defensive tackles.Kendrick Norton was avlaluable until the seventh round.

All of their 3T can play multiple positions. Crawford can do it but has been at end for 3 seasons. And by using that thought Collins is a 1T too and thus they carried 3. It started Paea and Price, then moved to Price, Ash and so on. If worse comes to worst then Collins will play 1T again. it's not like he was bad.

Price is now 6 months post-op. He will be 9 months when the season begins. Price was just signed to a 2 year deal in March. They must like his recovery.

Overall we have Price Ash and Ward as the depth chart.