Martin to blame on GB fumble?

[AsthmaField]

Stop acting like Peppers rocked him with his size and strength. He reached out and poked the ball away from Murray who was carrying it way too loosely. Frankly, with the way he was carrying it, a CB could have poked the ball free.

And no Peppers was not already "past" Martin when the ball was handed off. Peppers has contain on that play and when Murray gets the ball, Peppers jumps sideways/away from Martin to try to get around him. It basically took him out of the play and if Murray had been carrying the ball properly, there is nothing Peppers can do. He's out the play. His only hope is reach out and try to poke the ball free. Which is what happened.............. and that's 100% on Murray.

You lose credibility when you say things like this.

This is exactly right. Just look at the gif in this thread. Peppers' job was to take on the pulling guard to help keep the hole from forming. What he did was jump out of the guards way to avoid the collision... a no-no in a fundamentally sound defense. With Peppers jumping out of the way of Martin, it widened a hole that was already there. Peppers is very athletic for a big guy and he was able to dive at Murray and poke the ball out. Good for him, but I promise you the GB coaches would probably not want him to do that instead of taking on the block like he was supposed to.

A large percentage of the time, what Peppers did will end up in catastrophe for the defense. It worked out because Peppers is so long and athletic and because the RB wasn't holding the ball the way he should have been.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This is exactly right. Just look at the gif in this thread. Peppers' job was to take on the pulling guard to help keep the hole from forming. What he did was jump out of the guards way to avoid the collision... a no-no in a fundamentally sound defense. With Peppers jumping out of the way of Martin, it widened a hole that was already there. Peppers is very athletic for a big guy and he was able to dive at Murray and poke the ball out. Good for him, but I promise you the GB coaches would probably not want him to do that instead of taking on the block like he was supposed to.

A large percentage of the time, what Peppers did will end up in catastrophe for the defense. It worked out because Peppers is so long and athletic and because the RB wasn't holding the ball the way he should have been.

Correct. If at all possible, the DE is supposed to block the whole by stacking the pulling guard and forcing the play wide or shedding the block and closing the hole by making the tackle. What Peppers did there is not the way it is coached. It's actually a complement to Martin IMO. Peppers wants no part of that pulling Guard so instead, he does what he should not do to try and avoid the block. In Pepper's defense, its sometimes hard to pick up pulling Guards but if Peppers has two gap responsibility there, he absolutely played it wrong. He did the right thing by making a play on the ball but the way he did it just allowed for a bigger hole to run through. I guess we can play these games all day but what it really comes down to is that RBs are responsible for fumbles. Doesn't matter if you get plowed on the handoff or if you get stripped or whatever. It's the RBs responsibility to hold the ball until the whistle blows the play dead. That's how it's always been.

 

[AsthmaField]

It's actually a complement to Martin IMO. Peppers wants no part of that pulling Guard

Yep. Without going back and watching the game, I think that Peppers had been hammered a decent amount in the Cowboys run game, and he was starting to try to win in other ways, because he wasn't doing too well in taking on the blocks.

It was a very athletic play by him, but 9 out of 10 times, that is going to end up very poorly for him. Completely playing outside the constraints of the defensive principles.

 

[Wolf2k5]

The block was terrible. Still have to protect the football.

That's also a 6'7" athletic freak making a pretty sweet juke on a rookie. It happens. Martin looked like he was going for a kill shot block and missed. Doesn't undo the fact that without Martin Murray probably doesn't rush for 1800

 

[AsthmaField]

That's also a 6'7" athletic freak making a pretty sweet juke on a rookie. It happens. Martin looked like he was going for a kill shot block and missed. Doesn't undo the fact that without Martin Murray probably doesn't rush for 1800

Peppers job on that play was to take on Martin and try to stand him up in the hole. Peppers did what coaches would tell him not to do. It just worked out for him because he is athletic enough to get back to the hole before Murray was through... and because Murray was holding the ball too loose.

A back who is a little faster to the hole or holding on to the ball better and Peppers is getting called out by the coaches on film day. He might have been called out anyway.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Murray fumbled the ball.....in the biggest game of his and his teammates careers, he failed

 

[Doomsday101]

The idea that a RB never fumbles is absurd. The other team is taught to strip the ball instead of tackling these days.

Murray should have held on to the ball but he wasn't the only one to mess up. Why is that so hard to admit?

Peppers was already past Martin as Murray is still getting the hand--off.

No they do not often as for Martin, he took his man out there was a hugh fricken hole there and no reason what so ever for a fumble it is not hard to understand. Hell Peppers was not just going to stand there but fact is he took himself wide on the play and was trying to get back into the play Martin is not at fault at all not hard to understand at all. I say this as a big fan of Murray and not blaming him for the loss but RB should not lose the ball over a mere swipe of the ball if they do it is due because they failed to secure the ball properly if you do secure it properly then there is no fumble and any RB coach, OC or HC would tell you the same

 

[Plumfool]

The idea that a RB never fumbles is absurd. The other team is taught to strip the ball instead of tackling these days.

Murray should have held on to the ball but he wasn't the only one to mess up. Why is that so hard to admit?

Peppers was already past Martin as Murray is still getting the hand--off.

To think an outside defender when given an opportunity to get upfield isn't going to take it is kinda shortsighted. The play design allowed Peppers to get upfield. Martins assignment is to seal. It only needs to happen for half a beat if the running back hits the hole hard. Peppers took the long way around Martin and because of his length and athleticism was able to reach out and get a hand on Murray. However it would have been only a hand on his arm and not the ball had Murray been carrying the rock high and tight as all running backs are taught from a young age.

 

[Nightman]

It amazing the mental gymnastics you guys will go through, to avoid criticizing Martin. He 100% whiffed on his block and his man caused the fumble.

Yes Murray should have held on to the ball but that doesn't clear Martin.
"Peppers only made the play because he is an athletic freak" is not acceptable.
I've heard plenty of coaches say 'that guy shouldn't be there or he cheated or he got lucky', but keying the entire play on a rookie OG being able to handle Julius Peppers in the open field may have been a little too much to ask.

It was a low-risk high-reward play and almost went for a big play, but it didn't.

 

[Bullet22]

Murray's fault...he should have had six on the play....he hold's the ball away from his body and with minimal contract he drops it..

 

[Knotamus]

...I tried my best to not respond to this absurd thread. So its Martins fault that Murray fumbled the ball? What about the other fumbles? Did Tyron, Ronald, Travis, Doug, and/or Jeremy not block good enough on those fumbles too?

Even the best lineman in the league get beat on some plays. Hmmm.. rookie Guard was beat on one play by one of the most physically gifted DE's in the League.. I'm shocked.

Without the addition of Martin and the rest of the #1 rated OL.. Murray would have never sniffed 1800+ yards.. instead of finding a reason to blame others for another Murray fumble, realize one thing.......

Its been well documented that Murray ran loosely with the ball... how bout "HOLD ON TO THE DAMN BALL MURRAY!"

edited: on second thought.. I hope he continues his fumbling ways..exp against us

 

[JDSmith]

I blame Peppers.

Sometimes the other guy makes a play.

 

[Bullet22]

I blame Peppers.

Sometimes the other guy makes a play.

A man of reason....he got his hand in there a poked it out....Shouldn't have been able too...but it happened..

 

[ilovejerry]

Martin made poor block on play in Green Bay playoff game fumble by Murray.
I just noticed this recently, pepper, the guy who knocked the ball out on the play, was
Martins guy, the only guy Martin had to block was peppers, and if he did just a little better,
peppers would not have made it to Murray in time, and no fumble!

I will post some pics, but what I want to know from some of you who played lineman,
is a OL supposed to keep his head up ??
Is it bad form to lower the head so much your looking at the ground?
This is what Martin does on this play and it allows peppers ( a old guy lol) to slip arund and off the
block and leap at Murray.

If martin just delayed him 1 second longer it might have kept him from getting To murray, which he barely did.

Now I know some will blame Murray still, but the hit was from behind so it wasnt expected, he was looking at the open field then boom peppers hit his arm from behind.

I never saw anyone point this out about peppers being martins guy on that play.
It wasnt a good block.
Curious to see what fans here think about this, and the head down thing.

Right cause Martin fumbled the ball.........Please DM was so overrated sick of him glad he's gone goodbye cant wait to watch all his fumbles in philly and listen to those fans tear into him...

 

[DandyDon52]

It amazing the mental gymnastics you guys will go through, to avoid criticizing Martin. He 100% whiffed on his block and his man caused the fumble.

Yes Murray should have held on to the ball but that doesn't clear Martin.
"Peppers only made the play because he is an athletic freak" is not acceptable.
I've heard plenty of coaches say 'that guy shouldn't be there or he cheated or he got lucky', but keying the entire play on a rookie OG being able to handle Julius Peppers in the open field may have been a little too much to ask.

It was a low-risk high-reward play and almost went for a big play, but it didn't.

LOL Just me you and a couple of others can see or admit Martin whiffed on the block.

Now I read all the posts, and I feel I need to say a few things.
1.Murray was at fault for the fumble, I never said he wasnt, if I did quote it !
2.Murray doesnt put his hand over the nose of the ball, he holds it at the front under the nose. He did this all year so I have
to wonder why coaches allowed this. But again he was holding it poorly and the fumble itself was his fault alone.
3. What I meant by title of thread was that Martin was at fault not for the fumble but for Peppers getting to Murray, and for bad form on the block with his head down. You cant block well with your head down like that , it was a joke. Peppers just shoved him aside easily an went for RB.
4.I said in another thread the run blocking was average, not the entire play of the OL. Their pass protection at times was amazing.
and at times their run blocking was , but I see that with many teams.
A) The run success was due more to the amount of runs called, and Murray was a good back even if some of you dont think so.
5. Martin is a rookie, he had a great year , was all pro, and will get better each year, so will the whole line.
Just because he had a great year does that mean I cant point out one key play he whiffed on ?? I am not saying he is a bad player lol,
just that one play was bad.
6. All I was really pointing out is that if Martin had just delayed Peppers 1 or 2 seconds longer, there would not have been a fumble.
7. Many fans put these players on a high pedestal and think they are perfect and great and dont like any criticism of certain players.
But the reality is even great players screw up or play bad on some plays.

I am glad we have Martin, Frederick ( who said himself this line is not great yet and have a ways to go) Smith , and now Lael.
They will get better each year and are one of the better lines in NFL , but I dont think any line is "the best" or dominate to the point
the other teams have no chance, and any RB will do great because of the line being so great.

That is just my opinion which I have the right to have, just like all the other fans have a right to their opinion.
Besides threads like this help people get their blood pressure up lol.

 

[Rockport]

It amazing the mental gymnastics you guys will go through, to avoid criticizing Martin. He 100% whiffed on his block and his man caused the fumble.

Yes Murray should have held on to the ball but that doesn't clear Martin.
"Peppers only made the play because he is an athletic freak" is not acceptable.
I've heard plenty of coaches say 'that guy shouldn't be there or he cheated or he got lucky', but keying the entire play on a rookie OG being able to handle Julius Peppers in the open field may have been a little too much to ask.

It was a low-risk high-reward play and almost went for a big play, but it didn't.

Martin missed the block. Linemen muss blocks all the time. But Martin didn't fumble the ball. Murray did and takes the full name.

 

[DandyDon52]

here is close up of murray and how he was holding the ball, I think he may have seen peppers lunge, and tried to move the ball back inside which was a mistake as it made his grip weaker. Also this was I think only fumble he had after game 8 ? and I think they should have went with randle over Murray who was wore out and had the broken bone in left hand which meant he could not stiff arm, or cover ball with 2 hands !
So was Garrett right to play Murray or should he have started Randle , who had 2 good hands and was fresh ?????????

next frame

 

[DandyDon52]

Martin missed the block. Linemen muss blocks all the time. But Martin didn't fumble the ball. Murray did and takes the full name.

read post 135 !

 

[Bullet22]

Murray holds the tip of the ball lose....

 

[Ultra Warrior]

Murray fumbled. The only other person involved, is the person who caused the fumble. Let's move on.