Martin to blame on GB fumble?

[Doomsday101]

^This.

I wonder if some folks understand just how often defensive players intentionally swat or punch at the ball or offensive teammates (usually lineman) accidentially hit the ball during rushing downs in every single football game? It is the reason why running backs in particular are taught ball security from day one. And when I say "every single football game" I pretty much mean from junior high ball up.

That is why Jr High, High School, College and NFL run drills where guys are slapping at the ball as the RB goes through a gauntlet. I'm one of the biggest supporters of Murray but simple fact blocking or total whiff on a block does not change the simple fact the RB is responsible for holding on to the ball. Peppers put himself in a situation where he took a swipe at the ball not in a position to make a tackle just a last ditch effort on his part but Murray or any RB still must hold on to the ball.

 

[Nightman]

Yeah, so? Look at the play. Martin is a Guard. On that stretch, he can not guess what Peppers is going to do. He can only make sure that Peppers can not effectively stuff the run. You do that by going down the line to protect the back. If Peppers takes himself upfield, then he's done the job for the Offense by taking himself out of the play. Martin has to go down the line on that play. As it was, Martin saw Peppers and adjusted his block. He got a piece of Peppers. Try hitting a moving target from the Guard position, who is already in the backfield. Tackles have a difficult time doing this with a slide step, while mirroring. It's impossible for a Guard to do it with any degree of success. You must make sure that Peppers can not come down the line and finish the back so the way to play this is for the Guard to go down the line. The play is designed for the back to be past Peppers if he goes upfield. Murray should have already been through the whole and at the second level to make his cut. He wasn't. That's why Peppers is able to reach back. Martin did exactly what he is supposed to do. You don't run that play and guess that outside contain is going to go upfield because if you do, then you are going to get your back killed and the play will get blown up. Martin did exactly what he was supposed to do on that play.

This is not disagreeing. This is explaining what happened, what should have happened and why Murray fumbled. This is not opinion. This is how you coach it.

I played FB thru college football and know all about getting that lead block on the DE/OLB. Martin whiffed.

He would tell you so and his coach would tell him the same thing. Trying is not succeeding.

 

[Doomsday101]

I played FB thru college football and know all about getting that lead block on the DE/OLB. Martin whiffed.

He would tell you so and his coach would tell him the same thing. Trying is not succeeding.

There was still a hole there, bigger than most a RB will get. Pepper was in no position to make a tackle so he swatted at the ball and Murray fumbled. There is 0 excuse for any RB to fumble that ball on that play. I loved having Murray and wish we still had him but I will never make an excuse for any player when they make a mistake. Martin block was good enough that Murray should have had a good gain on the play

 

[Nightman]

That is why Jr High, High School, College and NFL run drills where guys are slapping at the ball as the RB goes through a gauntlet. I'm one of the biggest supporters of Murray but simple fact blocking or total whiff on a block does not change the simple fact the RB is responsible for holding on to the ball. Peppers put himself in a situation where he took a swipe at the ball not in a position to make a tackle just a last ditch effort on his part but Murray or any RB still must hold on to the ball.

If Martin's body is between Peppers and Murray, Peppers can't dive at the ball and cause the fumble.

You people that say Peppers couldn't make the tackle are oblivious to the fact he actually made the strip. That is called a tackle and Forced Fumble in the NFL.

 

[jrumann59]

Honest question to anybody on this board who played RB. If that's you on Monday and you are breaking down that play with the team, what happens if you suggest that the play failed because the Guard did not make the play?

Most likely I would add a mile or two to my feet.

 

[Nightman]

There was still a hole there, bigger than most a RB will get. Pepper was in no position to make a tackle so he swatted at the ball and Murray fumbled. There is 0 excuse for any RB to fumble that ball on that play. I loved having Murray and wish we still had him but I will never make an excuse for any player when they make a mistake. Martin block was good enough that Murray should have had a good gain on the play

That is like the saying the OT makes his block when he pushes the DE up the field and the DE can only reach out and strip the ball from the QB's hand. That is NOT making the block. It is a sack, tackle and FF.

 

[hornitosmonster]

100% on Murray. The block was enough to spring Murray for a TD if he was just a tad bit quicker. Just saying that AP, Shady, L.Bell, and Charles all take it to the house on that play.

 

[Satchel89]

Absolutely not. Even if Martin made a poor block on the play, It's Murray's job to hold onto the football. No matter what, you have to protect the ball and Murray is pretty bad at that.

 

[DallasEast]

That is why Jr High, High School, College and NFL run drills where guys are slapping at the ball as the RB goes through a gauntlet. I'm one of the biggest supporters of Murray but simple fact blocking or total whiff on a block does not change the simple fact the RB is responsible for holding on to the ball. Peppers put himself in a situation where he took a swipe at the ball not in a position to make a tackle just a last ditch effort on his part but Murray or any RB still must hold on to the ball.

Exactly. Future broke down player responsibilities already in an earlier post but I wanted to share what my old high school offensive line coach taught me and fellow linemen. Paraphrasing, he said, "You work on being the best blocker you can be but every block will never be perfect. Your goal is getting the man you're assigned to block out of position and create seams. The running back will do the rest."

I don't know. Everyone's sports experiences are different in some way but that was one of mine in football. I always thought it was sound fundamental coaching.

 

[Doomsday101]

If Martin's body is between Peppers and Murray, Peppers can't dive at the ball and cause the fumble.

You people that say Peppers couldn't make the tackle are oblivious to the fact he actually made the strip. That is called a tackle and Forced Fumble in the NFL.

It is still a big hole that Murray and should have been able to hold on to the ball and pick up some yards, Peppers could not make the tackle he had taken himself out of the play there is a massive hole he reaches and slaps at Murray hand? No excuse at all and to claim it was on Martin is about a dumb as it gets. This is the NFL holes like the one Murray had should have been a big gainer no question at all on that

 

[Plumfool]

Honest question to anybody on this board who played RB. If that's you on Monday and you are breaking down that play with the team, what happens if you suggest that the play failed because the Guard did not make the play?

I played running back and the only time I fumbled was in practice. Fullback missed his assignment and I was creamed as I got handoff. Coach didn't yell at the fullback he yelled at me. Needless to say I never fumbled again.

 

[Sydla]

You can disagree all you want, but Peppers made the play and Martin barely made contact.

Because he'd be right.

Peppers "made a play" because the TB was holding the ball like a loaf of bread. If Murray is carrying the ball properly, Peppers lunges, slaps his arm, falls on his face and looks up to see Murray scurrying 20 or more yards down teh field.

 

[Sydla]

I played FB thru college football and know all about getting that lead block on the DE/OLB. Martin whiffed.

He would tell you so and his coach would tell him the same thing. Trying is not succeeding.

And every coach in America would then also say that the played ultimately failed because the TB was carrying the ball like a sack of kittens.

The reality is the play worked even if you want to believe Martin was a total failure there. The goal is to create a hole........... which they did. The expectation is then that the TB won't screw it up.

 

[Doomsday101]

That is like the saying the OT makes his block when he pushes the DE up the field and the DE can only reach out and strip the ball from the QB's hand. That is NOT making the block. It is a sack, tackle and FF.

QB and RB are not the same, QB like Stanford was holding the ball in 1 hand as he was getting ready to throw. A RB knows, he taught day 1 you secure the ball, Murray tends to let the ball hang out from his body at times and that swipe that Pepper made should not have caused the fumble if the ball is tucked away. There is a big hole on that play and no reason what so ever for Murray or any RB not to get a big gainer out of it and hold on to the ball.

 

[Nightman]

I played running back and the only time I fumbled was in practice. Fullback missed his assignment and I was creamed as I got handoff. Coach didn't yell at the fullback he yelled at me. Needless to say I never fumbled again.

QB and RB are not the same, QB like Stanford was holding the ball in 1 hand as he was getting ready to throw. A RB knows, he taught day 1 you secure the ball, Murray tends to let the ball hang out from his body at times and that swipe that Pepper made should not have caused the fumble if the ball is tucked away. There is a big hole on that play and no reason what so ever for Murray or any RB not to get a big gainer out of it and hold on to the ball.

The idea that a RB never fumbles is absurd. The other team is taught to strip the ball instead of tackling these days.

Murray should have held on to the ball but he wasn't the only one to mess up. Why is that so hard to admit?

Peppers was already past Martin as Murray is still getting the hand--off.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't think that anybody is suggesting that RBs never fumble. Obviously, they do or this thread would not exist. What people are saying is that Murray should not have fumbled in that situation.

 

[rcaldw]

100% on Murray. The block was enough to spring Murray for a TD if he was just a tad bit quicker. Just saying that AP, Shady, L.Bell, and Charles all take it to the house on that play.

I'm sorry, did any of those guys have over 1800 yards last year? Didn't think so.

 

[Nightman]

I don't think that anybody is suggesting that RBs never fumble. Obviously, they do or this thread would not exist. What people are saying is that Murray should not have fumbled in that situation.

Try getting blindsided by a guy Peppers size and strength. That is the exact type of play to expect a fumble.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Try getting blindsided by a guy Peppers size and strength. That is the exact type of play to expect a fumble.

So your point is that any back would have fumbled in that situation?

 

[Sydla]

Try getting blindsided by a guy Peppers size and strength. That is the exact type of play to expect a fumble.

Stop acting like Peppers rocked him with his size and strength. He reached out and poked the ball away from Murray who was carrying it way too loosely. Frankly, with the way he was carrying it, a CB could have poked the ball free.

And no Peppers was not already "past" Martin when the ball was handed off. Peppers has contain on that play and when Murray gets the ball, Peppers jumps sideways/away from Martin to try to get around him. It basically took him out of the play and if Murray had been carrying the ball properly, there is nothing Peppers can do. He's out the play. His only hope is reach out and try to poke the ball free. Which is what happened.............. and that's 100% on Murray.

You lose credibility when you say things like this.