Martin to blame on GB fumble?

[Aven8]

Sigh....

Can't we just say that a career stud such as Peppers just made a game changing play? You know they get paid as well. He was really the only defender I feared in that game and played great IMO. Are people in Detroit complaining about Stafford fumbling twice within 3-4 plays to lose it?? I doubt it. Sometimes the others guy win the battle.

 

[ologan]

DMac hits that hole and is possibly gone before Peppers gets so much as a finger on him.....IMHO.

 

[xwalker]

Didn't you say in another post that our ol played avg last year?

Yes he did, and now he's going to try to point out any minimal mistake he "thinks" they made.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

On that play, Parnell blocks down on the Inside LB and Martin kicks out to block the Strongside DE. It's basically a Cross Block. It's one of the very first blocks you learn, going back to Pop Warner or YAFL. Leary pulls and leads in on the run. The TE cracks back on the other Inside LB and Leary picks up the Strong Safety. Martins first job is to reach down the line and seal the DE. His first step is lateral. When Peppers comes up field, Martin then adjusts his block and seals the lane back inside the hole. He did it exactly the way he is supposed to, technique wise. If you want blame an OL, you can say that Leary didn't get upfield and into the hole on the wham quickly enough but even that is a stretch. The entire OL does exactly what it is supposed to do. As a back, you run through trash all the time. If guys are reaching for you from behind to try and get a piece of your arm or your ankles or shoulderpads, that's a really good day for a back. It's a great day for an NFL back. That fumble was 100% on Murray and I don't care what anybody says, that's the truth of the matter. If Garrett said tomorrow that the issue there was Martin, I would call him a liar. That's Murray all the way. Now, in his defense, he was playing with a cast on his left wrist I believe but the ball was in his right hand. He should have had both hands on it, covering up the ball but he didn't. That's why every coach preaches ball security, especially while running through the line. Guys are going to try and get any piece they can.

 

[Frozen700]

Murray is a bum. Plain and simple.

 

[DallasEast]

Murray is a bum. Plain and simple.

Murray is a very good running back who excelled last season, best in the league for 2014 in fact, but who also has sporadic issues with better protecting the football.

 

[perrykemp]

On that play, Parnell blocks down on the Inside LB and Martin kicks out to block the Strongside DE. It's basically a Cross Block. It's one of the very first blocks you learn, going back to Pop Warner or YAFL. Leary pulls and leads in on the run. The TE cracks back on the other Inside LB and Leary picks up the Strong Safety. Martins first job is to reach down the line and seal the DE. His first step is lateral. When Peppers comes up field, Martin then adjusts his block and seals the lane back inside the hole. He did it exactly the way he is supposed to, technique wise. If you want blame an OL, you can say that Leary didn't get upfield and into the hole on the wham quickly enough but even that is a stretch. The entire OL does exactly what it is supposed to do. As a back, you run through trash all the time. If guys are reaching for you from behind to try and get a piece of your arm or your ankles or shoulderpads, that's a really good day for a back. It's a great day for an NFL back. That fumble was 100% on Murray and I don't care what anybody says, that's the truth of the matter. If Garrett said tomorrow that the issue there was Martin, I would call him a liar. That's Murray all the way. Now, in his defense, he was playing with a cast on his left wrist I believe but the ball was in his right hand. He should have had both hands on it, covering up the ball but he didn't. That's why every coach preaches ball security, especially while running through the line. Guys are going to try and get any piece they can.

How many 6-7 OLBs are there in NFL? Only 1 that I am aware of -- at thats Julius Peppers playing as a 3-4 OLB (most of the time) in Dom Caper's scheme.

As was mentioned above, more than half of the credit / blame /etc goes to a great poke out by Peppers on that play. I'm not sure a single other player in the NFL is able to reach back and poke that ball out when blocked essentially out of the play by Martin.

 

[sideon]

How many RBs see a hole like that and their eyes grow 3x because they see nothing but daylight? Murray ran like he was still waiting for a block to be set up, people are acting like Peppers didn't make a freak play to cause the fumble in the 1st place. If AD sees a hole like that you can go ahead and chalk it up to 7pts. What's sad is for the most part we all agree that even if he doesn't fumble he still gets caught from behind.

 

[Sydla]

I think at this point, this thread would fall into that description of "internet fail".

 

[xwalker]

How many 6-7 OLBs are there in NFL? Only 1 that I am aware of -- at thats Julius Peppers playing as a 3-4 OLB (most of the time) in Dom Caper's scheme.

As was mentioned above, more than half of the credit / blame /etc goes to a great poke out by Peppers on that play. I'm not sure a single other player in the NFL is able to reach back and poke that ball out when blocked essentially out of the play by Martin.

I thought Murray was about 1 step late. I think at the point that Leary made contact on his block, Murray should have been even with Leary instead of behind him.

 

[KJJ]

You don't blame a fumble on a poor or missed block it's on the back for not holding onto the ball.

 

[Nightman]

Martin 100% whiffed. It happens.

Peppers made the play that caused the fumble. That means Martin didn't do his job, Peppers did more of a swim around than a jump out of the hole. Martin Ole'd his block, he barely made contact.

Murray also shares the blame, but it wasn't because he was too slow to hit the hole. He was waiting for Leary to get his block.

It is very similar to the Counter Trey were the RB jabs steps the other way to give the OL time to pull.

 

[DallasEast]

I think at this point, this thread would fall into that description of "internet fail".

Agreed. I blame Madden.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Martin 100% whiffed. It happens.

Peppers made the play that caused the fumble. That means Martin didn't do his job, Peppers did more of a swim around than a jump out of the hole. Martin Ole'd his block, he barely made contact.

Murray also shares the blame, but it wasn't because he was too slow to hit the hole. He was waiting for Leary to get his block.

It is very similar to the Counter Trey were the RB jabs steps the other way to give the OL time to pull.

Nope. This is not correct. Murray should have been on Leary's hip, ready to make his cut off of Leary's block on the safety. At the very least, he should have been through the hole for a minimal gain. Martin didn't whiff on anything. His job was to insure that Peppers was not in a position to make the play in the hole. He did that. This is all on Murray.

I do not agree that Peppers made a play because of Martins failure.

 

[Nightman]

Nope. This is not correct. Murray should have been on Leary's hip, ready to make his cut off of Leary's block on the safety. At the very least, he should have been through the hole for a minimal gain. Martin didn't whiff on anything. His job was to insure that Peppers was not in a position to make the play in the hole. He did that. This is all on Murray.

I do not agree that Peppers made a play because of Martins failure.

You can disagree all you want, but Peppers made the play and Martin barely made contact.

 

[Nightman]

 

[Doomsday101]

Sigh....

Can't we just say that a career stud such as Peppers just made a game changing play? You know they get paid as well. He was really the only defender I feared in that game and played great IMO. Are people in Detroit complaining about Stafford fumbling twice within 3-4 plays to lose it?? I doubt it. Sometimes the others guy win the battle.

Sure but Murray was still responsible for securing the ball, The hand slap that Pepper gave should not have been enough to knock the ball out had it been secured like Murray should have.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You can disagree all you want, but Peppers made the play and Martin barely made contact.

Yeah, so? Look at the play. Martin is a Guard. On that stretch, he can not guess what Peppers is going to do. He can only make sure that Peppers can not effectively stuff the run. You do that by going down the line to protect the back. If Peppers takes himself upfield, then he's done the job for the Offense by taking himself out of the play. Martin has to go down the line on that play. As it was, Martin saw Peppers and adjusted his block. He got a piece of Peppers. Try hitting a moving target from the Guard position, who is already in the backfield. Tackles have a difficult time doing this with a slide step, while mirroring. It's impossible for a Guard to do it with any degree of success. You must make sure that Peppers can not come down the line and finish the back so the way to play this is for the Guard to go down the line. The play is designed for the back to be past Peppers if he goes upfield. Murray should have already been through the whole and at the second level to make his cut. He wasn't. That's why Peppers is able to reach back. Martin did exactly what he is supposed to do. You don't run that play and guess that outside contain is going to go upfield because if you do, then you are going to get your back killed and the play will get blown up. Martin did exactly what he was supposed to do on that play.

This is not disagreeing. This is explaining what happened, what should have happened and why Murray fumbled. This is not opinion. This is how you coach it.

 

[DallasEast]

Sure but Murray was still responsible for securing the ball, The hand slap that Pepper gave should not have been enough to knock the ball out had it been secured like Murray should have.

^This.

I wonder if some folks understand just how often defensive players intentionally swat or punch at the ball or offensive teammates (usually lineman) accidentially hit the ball during rushing downs in every single football game? It is the reason why running backs in particular are taught ball security from day one. And when I say "every single football game" I pretty much mean from junior high ball up.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Honest question to anybody on this board who played RB. If that's you on Monday and you are breaking down that play with the team, what happens if you suggest that the play failed because the Guard did not make the play?