Martin to blame on GB fumble?

[Frosty]

read post 135 !

Talking about trying to make something out of nothing.....COME ON MAN...this post is wasting everyones time... I no we are stuck in the most boring part of the offseason but fore heavens sakes,,,,there has to be something better to talk about than figuring out how to blame a OLmen for fumble .....REALLY ....

 

[rathalarge]

Martin made poor block on play in Green Bay playoff game fumble by Murray.
I just noticed this recently, pepper, the guy who knocked the ball out on the play, was
Martins guy, the only guy Martin had to block was peppers, and if he did just a little better,
peppers would not have made it to Murray in time, and no fumble!

I will post some pics, but what I want to know from some of you who played lineman,
is a OL supposed to keep his head up ??
Is it bad form to lower the head so much your looking at the ground?
This is what Martin does on this play and it allows peppers ( a old guy lol) to slip arund and off the
block and leap at Murray.

If martin just delayed him 1 second longer it might have kept him from getting To murray, which he barely did.

Now I know some will blame Murray still, but the hit was from behind so it wasnt expected, he was looking at the open field then boom peppers hit his arm from behind.

I never saw anyone point this out about peppers being martins guy on that play.
It wasnt a good block.
Curious to see what fans here think about this, and the head down thing.

Mid to late game possible scoring drive... Murray = high and tight!

 

[coach steele]

So if an offensive lineman misses a block can we blame the running back? Bottom line: Hold on to the ball. In any case, Murray is an egirl. Its time to let go.

 

[Nightman]

LOL Just me you and a couple of others can see or admit Martin whiffed on the block.

Now I read all the posts, and I feel I need to say a few things.
1.Murray was at fault for the fumble, I never said he wasnt, if I did quote it !
2.Murray doesnt put his hand over the nose of the ball, he holds it at the front under the nose. He did this all year so I have
to wonder why coaches allowed this. But again he was holding it poorly and the fumble itself was his fault alone.
3. What I meant by title of thread was that Martin was at fault not for the fumble but for Peppers getting to Murray, and for bad form on the block with his head down. You cant block well with your head down like that , it was a joke. Peppers just shoved him aside easily an went for RB.
4.I said in another thread the run blocking was average, not the entire play of the OL. Their pass protection at times was amazing.
and at times their run blocking was , but I see that with many teams.
A) The run success was due more to the amount of runs called, and Murray was a good back even if some of you dont think so.
5. Martin is a rookie, he had a great year , was all pro, and will get better each year, so will the whole line.
Just because he had a great year does that mean I cant point out one key play he whiffed on ?? I am not saying he is a bad player lol,
just that one play was bad.
6. All I was really pointing out is that if Martin had just delayed Peppers 1 or 2 seconds longer, there would not have been a fumble.
7. Many fans put these players on a high pedestal and think they are perfect and great and dont like any criticism of certain players.
But the reality is even great players screw up or play bad on some plays.

I am glad we have Martin, Frederick ( who said himself this line is not great yet and have a ways to go) Smith , and now Lael.
They will get better each year and are one of the better lines in NFL , but I dont think any line is "the best" or dominate to the point
the other teams have no chance, and any RB will do great because of the line being so great.

That is just my opinion which I have the right to have, just like all the other fans have a right to their opinion.
Besides threads like this help people get their blood pressure up lol.

In the future they might want to have Martin and Leary switch assignments. Martin has more time to get to the second level and Leary can seal Peppers. If Peppers tries to avoid Leary the same way there isn't enough time to recover.

Leary got a little tied up as Parnell's man shot the gap and got upfield real quick. If Leary can't get to Peppers it would be a sure loss.

 

[Nightman]

here is close up of murray and how he was holding the ball, I think he may have seen peppers lunge, and tried to move the ball back inside which was a mistake as it made his grip weaker. Also this was I think only fumble he had after game 8 ? and I think they should have went with randle over Murray who was wore out and had the broken bone in left hand which meant he could not stiff arm, or cover ball with 2 hands !
So was Garrett right to play Murray or should he have started Randle , who had 2 good hands and was fresh ?????????

next frame

Those pictures also put to bed the "carrying the ball like a loaf of bread" and "he needs to keep it high and tight" false narratives.

 

[DallasEast]

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/demarcomurray2_zpsez3dpwn9-1.gif
Loaf
Of
Bread​

 

[Rockport]

read post 135 !

You can't have it both ways. If you have an opinion, own it.

 

[DandyDon52]

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/demarcomurray2_zpsez3dpwn9-1.gif
Loaf
Of
Bread​

yeah LOB , but this also shows how bad Martins block was, almost missed him entirely.
And should murray have even been playing ???

 

[Nightman]

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/demarcomurray2_zpsez3dpwn9-1.gif
Loaf
Of
Bread​

I don't think Loaf of Bread means what you think it means

 

[speedkilz88]

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/demarcomurray2_zpsez3dpwn9-1.gif
Loaf
Of
Bread​

Looking at that first angle. It looks like Murray tried to follow Leary to help set up the block on the safety and just stayed with him too long. Should have cut right off his hip with the burst he's suppose to have.

 

[speedkilz88]

I don't think Loaf of Bread means what you think it means

He was palming the ball.

Sure wasn't tucked correctly.

 

[Nightman]

He was palming the ball.

Sure wasn't tucked correctly.

That is NOT palming the ball at all.

It is a lot closer to High and Tight. He isn't even swinging it away from his body.

 

[jrumann59]

It amazing the mental gymnastics you guys will go through, to avoid criticizing Martin. He 100% whiffed on his block and his man caused the fumble.

Yes Murray should have held on to the ball but that doesn't clear Martin.
"Peppers only made the play because he is an athletic freak" is not acceptable.
I've heard plenty of coaches say 'that guy shouldn't be there or he cheated or he got lucky', but keying the entire play on a rookie OG being able to handle Julius Peppers in the open field may have been a little too much to ask.

It was a low-risk high-reward play and almost went for a big play, but it didn't.

if that was murray's only fumble all season you have a point. Last year watching him I was always thinking "when" not "if". Yeah he got better towards the end, not really, he got lucky towards the end he had 2-3 games where he lost balls out bounds that did not count as fumbles. He easily could have lost 7-8 fumbles last year .

 

[jrumann59]

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/demarcomurray2_zpsez3dpwn9-1.gif
Loaf
Of
Bread​

it may have been high it sure was not tight

 

[Sydla]

It amazing the mental gymnastics you guys will go through, to avoid criticizing Martin. He 100% whiffed on his block and his man caused the fumble.

Yes Murray should have held on to the ball but that doesn't clear Martin.
"Peppers only made the play because he is an athletic freak" is not acceptable.
I've heard plenty of coaches say 'that guy shouldn't be there or he cheated or he got lucky', but keying the entire play on a rookie OG being able to handle Julius Peppers in the open field may have been a little too much to ask.

It was a low-risk high-reward play and almost went for a big play, but it didn't.

Because the RB fumbled. If the RB doesn't fumble, it's a big play.

Martin didn't make the ideal block. He didn't make a technically sound block. But his presence alone made Peppers jump outside where he was supposed to be and if Murray isn't holding the ball like he was, Peppers can't make the tackle. Peppers took himself out of the play and the only option he had was lunge his hand at the ball and hope Murray was playing stupidly.......... which he was.

But since you guys want to put blame on Martin, that play in 90% Murray, 10% Martin's fault. Better?

 

[Sydla]

That is NOT palming the ball at all.

It is a lot closer to High and Tight. He isn't even swinging it away from his body.

LOL. Now here come the semantics.

Murray wasn't carrying the ball tightly. Stop dude.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Because the RB fumbled. If the RB doesn't fumble, it's a big play.

Martin didn't make the ideal block. He didn't make a technically sound block. But his presence alone made Peppers jump outside where he was supposed to be and if Murray isn't holding the ball like he was, Peppers can't make the tackle. Peppers took himself out of the play and the only option he had was lunge his hand at the ball and hope Murray was playing stupidly.......... which he was.

But since you guys want to put blame on Martin, that play in 90% Murray, 10% Martin's fault. Better?

If Peppers doesn't try to avoid the block by going up field, Martin locks him up. Martin's objective, on that play is to seal the outside contain and allow for the RB to have a clear path to the second level. He did this. He did what he was supposed to do. The play, like all plays, is about timing. This was not a bad play by Martin or anybody else on the OL. This was a bad technique by Murray because he had a big play and he lost it by fumbling the football. Nobody knows this better then Murray. I like the guy. He is what you hope you get when you draft a player to play for you (Murray) but on that play, he made a bad play and blaming somebody else is not going to change that. This was not a poor play by Martin. It is what it is and it's done now. Learn from it and move on is all you can do.

 

[xwalker]

yeah LOB , but this also shows how bad Martins block was, almost missed him entirely.
And should murray have even been playing ???

The Cowboys coach that block such that they want the defender to jump to the outside. They did it on a regular basis with Free blocking the outside defender. The play is designed such that the RB should be past the point of the outside defender having time to loop around the outside and get back inside.

The timing of the play was just a little bit off. Maybe that was on Murray or maybe Leary was delayed getting to his spot.

When they did it with Free, he often didn't really have to block, he just had to be in the way and his primary assignment was to make certain that the defender jumped outside and not inside (i.e. over-set his block to the inside).

Yes, the block by Martin was not absolutely perfect; however, when they draw up that play they are expecting the RB to be past that point by the time the outside defender can get back around.

The bottom line is that Murray has to hold on to the ball.

Run blocking is a dynamic event and the defenders are professionals also. Run blocking is rarely perfect.

 

[xwalker]

That is NOT palming the ball at all.

It is a lot closer to High and Tight. He isn't even swinging it away from his body.

He was swinging it and had just moved it up against his body a split second before Peppers knocked it out.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Cowboys coach that block such that they want the defender to jump to the outside. They did it on a regular basis with Free blocking the outside defender. The play is designed such that the RB should be past the point of the outside defender having time to loop around the outside and get back inside.

The timing of the play was just a little bit off. Maybe that was on Murray or maybe Leary was delayed getting to his spot.

When they did it with Free, he often didn't really have to block, he just had to be in the way and his primary assignment was to make certain that the defender jumped outside and not inside (i.e. over-set his block to the inside).

Yes, the block by Martin was not absolutely perfect; however, when they draw up that play they are expecting the RB to be past that point by the time the outside defender can get back around.

The bottom line is that Murray has to hold on to the ball.

Run blocking is a dynamic event and the defenders are professionals also. Run blocking is rarely perfect.

I look back on that play and wonder what the coaching staff thought about Murray and his future with the team. Not because he fumbled the ball but because he really should have been through that hole. He should have been on Leary's hip and ready to cut off the block and into the secondary. I wonder if that effected what the Cowboys were willing to offer Murray, especially in years out? This is all speculation on my part. I have nothing to suggest that it was considered in this light by the team but I do wonder?