Marvez: Cowboys Used Senior Bowl As Intelligence Experiment

[RS12]

When evaluating players the tape never lies. When evaluating their wanting and ability to learn hopefully their college position coach never lies.

 

[Alexander]

One of the reasons they loved Chaz Green was because he took notes during his initial interview with Pollack and was then able to go back to them when they interviewed him again later. Seems like they're trying to apply that strategy to the entire draft.

Never mind he used crutches to get up on the white board. He did it well when he got there.

 

[Alexander]

When evaluating players the tape never lies. When evaluating their wanting and ability to learn hopefully their college position coach never lies.

That is correct.

So here is an issue.

Scouts love the player's tape. He looks smart and instinctive. Garrett and Company have the player in the Senior Bowl and he fails the note taking experiment.

What happens to that player's grade?

 

[Alexander]

This type of innovation is fantastic. It adds a new dimension to the evaluation process. Measures whether the player has the mental acumen to understand the playbook. If his notes are clear and he studies he will get it. The coaches will see the results if the player is lazy in his note taking, lacks the mental ability to take proper notes, or fails to study them later.

I do not think it is all that innovative other than it was a different approach to the Senior Bowl game itself.

Teams spend a lot of money on intelligence testing and even psychological testing. A lot of teams pride themselves on getting intelligence identified.

And judging if someone is "lazy" can be mistaken for someone scared to death by something they have not seen before. Or if they take the notes well and can't translate, what then?

Everyone learns differently, so it is very risky to use classroom learning versus hands on learning and stress one over the other. It has to have some balance.

I am more interested in this little experiment than I am willing to say I hate it, like it or even think it is remotely useful.

If we end up taking a bunch of North players, then it might end up having more importance.

 

[IrishAnto]

FAILURE IS THE BEST TEACHER

But only if you learn form it.

 

[Dodger12]

Geez...Another everyone deserves a trophy for showing up zoner. The Cowboys did exactly the right thing with this approach.
They will not draft but maybe a very few of the players on both sides of the ball. The cream will rise to the top and learning
how to succeed without being given all the crib notes is effective at seeing which players get it and which are just trying to skate
by on athletics alone. The Senior Bowl is a detailed job interview for the NFL and if you want a job you better be able to perform
to the bosses criteria. Now that's pretty much what happens in the business world. Not everyone gets a job!

This is a lot of hogwash. If you want to test someone's "intelligence" then stick to the Wonderlic....that's what it's there for. The Senior Bowl is for these kids to showcase their talent and the coaches jon is to help these kids prepare for the Senior Bowl. Not throw a pop quiz on them from Day 1.

And I agree at some point the cream rises. If Garrett had some skins or some success, maybe I'd be more forgiving and folks would look at this as something innovative. At the end of the day, the kids didn't perform well enough to win. Matter of fact, from the looks of things, they didn't perform very well at all. Your coach should help you win but Garrett has shown the same thing at the Senior Bowl that he has in 5 years as a HC; he offers you no coaching advantage on gameday. Garrett was just being Garrett and fans like you will fawn over his "innovative" ways to do things that still end up as a loss.

 

[Cowboys22]

I think it's stupid for a number of reasons and it's just another example of a coach that thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. I'm not sure how you properly evaluate players on the field when some of those players may not know the plays. Sure, it may tell you which players are more book smart or have better study habits but it won't tell you which player can pick up the playbook, learn it and execute it.

And it also strikes me as very selfish (for lack of a better term) on Garrett's part. These players are playing for their future and their livelihoods. The least our red headed dolt can do is to get these kids prepared to play and execute in front of scouts and other NFL teams. There was only a limited amount of time to practice and it just seems like wasted time trying to get the team on the same page. It's really not surprising to me Garrett's team lost and Wentz and company looked so ineffective. Just stupid.

Agree 100% and seems just like the type of thing Garrett does that never works. His job was to put those kids in the best position to impress scouts and get drafted as high as possible. Instead, he put them in a position to fail for his own purpose of identifying the RKGs. Classic overthinking. I think it would have been smarter to throw the entire Dallas playbook at them and see who picked if up the fastest and most thoroughly. That would ID the RKGs specifically suited to your team while putting everyone in the best position to succeed in the game.

 

[Sydla]

Agree 100% and seems just like the type of thing Garrett does that never works. His job was to put those kids in the best position to impress scouts and get drafted as high as possible. Instead, he put them in a position to fail for his own purpose of identifying the RKGs. Classic overthinking. I think it would have been smarter to throw the entire Dallas playbook at them and see who picked if up the fastest and most thoroughly. That would ID the RKGs specifically suited to your team while putting everyone in the best position to succeed in the game.

Except a lot of this probably isn't true.

As pointed out, the practices and meetings with players are more important to scouts and NFL teams than the actual game. And as also stated in this thread, Garrett's practices were efficient and well done and generally perceived as good for the kids in terms of giving scouts a lot to see. As I said earlier, Carson Wentz SHOT UP the draft boards during the week. Somehow, someway, that guy wasn't hindered by what the Cowboys coaches did.

I don't like Garrett either but he's not a total idiot and not everything he does is dumb or lame.

 

[RoboQB]

Seems to me that some fans sat down on a Saturday and expected to see an intense football game... while others watched the practices all week and knew the game was the least important part of the week...
It was said ALL WEEK LONG that the practices are what everyone was there for... Sheldon Rankins was hurt in practice late in the week and held out of the game... but he was awesome in practice and because
of that, he will most likely be a 1st rounder... Shawn Oakman had "stats" in the game but looked very average in practice all week... the game meant very little when it comes to evaluating players.

 

[munkee]

I do not think it is all that innovative other than it was a different approach to the Senior Bowl game itself.

Teams spend a lot of money on intelligence testing and even psychological testing. A lot of teams pride themselves on getting intelligence identified.

And judging if someone is "lazy" can be mistaken for someone scared to death by something they have not seen before. Or if they take the notes well and can't translate, what then?

Everyone learns differently, so it is very risky to use classroom learning versus hands on learning and stress one over the other. It has to have some balance.

I am more interested in this little experiment than I am willing to say I hate it, like it or even think it is remotely useful.

If we end up taking a bunch of North players, then it might end up having more importance.

The players are evaluated in all sorts of context. This is just a new dimension. I doubt the coaches will rely solely on this particular evaluation in their decision to draft a player or not.

As for the "classroom learning" angle. You don't need to be the most literate person to be able to draw up play in a notebook. The plays they are being taught during their one week of practice are basic and likely review to most players. If a player is unable to have a basic understanding of what is going on, is unable to take notes for some unknown reason, is lazy, scared, whatever, it is a red flag. If you are interested in that player, make sure you understand why they did poorly with this task before you draft them.

When every team is looking for that competitive edge, I'm happy to see the coaches try something new. Especially, in a low risk situation.

 

[DCBoysfan]

All I know is that one of the greatest coaches in Cowboys history famously said he he doesn't want any dumb players, this just seem like a method used to evaluate the players mental preparation.

 

[Alexander]

I think it would have been smarter to throw the entire Dallas playbook at them and see who picked if up the fastest and most thoroughly.

That would have served our purposes very well but how much you could throw at them in a few days is debatable.

 

[NEODOG]

One of the reasons they loved Chaz Green was because he took notes during his initial interview with Pollack and was then able to go back to them when they interviewed him again later. Seems like they're trying to apply that strategy to the entire draft.

Really, you don't say..... A kid, MANY have labeled a bust..... Yet they gave him a free year to improve his strength & get well. A Smart offensive lineman.... No way!

 

[Chuck 54]

Bull S___

The smarts is in learning the playbook and executing on the field. This endeavor did not test anything that the players will actually confront in the future.
They will receive a playbook, on a mobile device no less. They will need to learn the plays and techniques from the playbook and the classroom and apply it on the field. They won't have to take notes on the plays and draw them up or study their own notes. I don't see this as an intelligence test.

 

[Sydla]

Actually I would think having to diagram your own plays from coaches' teachings and take notes on the plays being taught to you would involve more critical thinking than just being handed a few pages of plays (remember, this is a one week camp essentially so no one is handing over a 300 page playbook) and just memorizing them.

 

[Aven8]

All the Baylor players let out a huge sigh of relief!

 

[Vanilla2]

If this were an opposing coach the zone loved everyone would be on the other side of the fence.

But since it's Garrett and co everyone played their role.

 

[Chuck 54]

Actually I would think having to diagram your own plays from coaches' teachings and take notes on the plays being taught to you would involve more critical thinking than just being handed a few pages of plays (remember, this is a one week camp essentially so no one is handing over a 300 page playbook) and just memorizing them.

So why don't they do this in the summer when they are preparing guys for a couple months to play on Sundays? Why not do it with rookies? If it actually means anything, then it should be effective in the NFL, not just the Senior bowl.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You obviously know zero about the Senior Bowl. The practices mean more than the games, everybody knows that.

You obviously know zero about football. The problem for the Cowboys is they are run by people that think like you. Its the reason this franchise has gone down the tubes.

 

[Sydla]

So why don't they do this in the summer when they are preparing guys for a couple months to play on Sundays? Why not do it with rookies? If it actually means anything, then it should be effective in the NFL, not just the Senior bowl.

What are you talking about? There's a difference between trying to digest an entire playbook that a NFL team would throw at a rookie in the summer for a NFL season and trying to learn a small handful of plays in a week long camp that is a showcase of your skills for NFL teams.

It's easier to do this in a short camp setting than after a guy is already on a team. The goal here during the Senior Bowl was to view guys' critical thinking skills.......... to see how they can adapt and adjust to something different, to see how they think through a play as opposed to just looking at a diagram handed to them, etc. This is about DRAFTING the type of players that you then think will not only be able to digest your playbook come summer camp but also be able to think critically and dissect the plays instead of just simply memorizing them.

You aren't going to give your players an intelligence exercise AFTER you've already drafted them.