Mavs/Heat Finals thread

[Stautner]

This.

LeBron is nowhere close to being the "second greatest player in NBA history."

No way, no how.

Your list is a good start, but just a start.

Where has LeBron choked or quit? Is the standard that he either has to be MJ-like or he is a quitter and choker? Nothing in between?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Where has LeBron choked or quit? Is the standard that he either has to be MJ-like or he is a quitter and choker? Nothing in between?

You should watch more of LeBron's games. Especially back in Cleveland. The guy has all the talent in the world, but he doesn't have the drive to use it. He doesn't have a never say quit attitude. You figure if you're in the playoffs, you fight tooth and nail to win. He doesn't. This series against the Mavs is just another showing of it. As the best player on the court, he should be dominating the game. Instead, it's Wade and Dirk.

 

[Stautner]

You should watch more of LeBron's games. Especially back in Cleveland. The guy has all the talent in the world, but he doesn't have the drive to use it. He doesn't have a never say quit attitude. You figure if you're in the playoffs, you fight tooth and nail to win. He doesn't. This series against the Mavs is just another showing of it. As the best player on the court, he should be dominating the game. Instead, it's Wade and Dirk.

I certainly will admit that I haven't consistently watched a lot of LeBron's games, and no doubt taht would influence my thinking if I had. I do have a hard time putting myself in someone's head though, and it has crossed my mind that perhaps LeBron is trying too hard to be a team player rather than forcing thnigs on himself. He did have 9 assists in the last game and has averaged 17+ ppg and 6+ apg, which isn't superstar, but it's not bad in the midst of an overall team effort in low scoring games. And who knows, a lot of those easy shots around the basket that the Heat seem to get over and over and oaver again may partially be the result of our defense focusing on LeBron on the perimeter.

But one thing i do see, and this supports what you are saying, is that Wade seems to be in the middle of everything at all times, whereas long stretches can go by without noticing LeBron much.

I just hope we don't start relaxing our coverage on him and then he explodes on us.

 

[The30YardSlant]

lmao. LeBron isn't even the best player on his own team let alone the league. Dirk and Wade have both been by far the two best players in this series. Even if LeBron wins this ring it won't mean anything. LeBron still isn't even close to MJ. Not close to Magic, Kobe, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, or even Duncan. The dude is a quitter and a choker.

Throwing out accomplishments and focusing solely on basketball ability, Lebron is right up there with the greatest ever. That was my point, he is as gifted as any player to have ever picked up a basketball. What he does with that talent is where he has fallen short.

 

[MC KAos]

the best player in the league, without question, is matt bonner!

 

[The30YardSlant]

the best player in the league, without question, is matt bonner!

Red Rocket!

 

[MC KAos]

Red Rocket!

Absolutely! He is the best player, for the opposing team!:laugh2:

 

[Clove]

young shaq might've flattened lebron like a pancake.

Apparently people have forgotten the old Shaq who was 7 foot with no body fat, over 300 pds and could run jump, freak of nature.

LeBron can be stopped, Shaq could not be stopped in his prime. The guy was a monster, bringing down entire goals, not just the glass or goal post, but the entire frame.

I know we are enamored with LeBron because he's all we see right now, but Shaq was a physical freak in his prime.

 

[DFWJC]

I am rooting hard for the Mavericks, but that might have been the last game they win. They HAVE to win game 5 if they are to have a shot. I just don't see the Heat not doubling Dirk from now on.

They have been pretty much doubling him (albeit delayed) almost the entire series. Afew times the help didn't get there in time--like in game 2 on the final drive--but normally they collapse on him with 2 or more guys.

 

[Nav22]

In the statistical department (reality), LeBron is clearly the game's best player. Take a look at his #1 in the league PER in each of the last several years.

In the emotional department (fan overreactions and bias), stats mean nothing, he is the worst human being on earth and an overrated, heartless player.

That about sums it up.

 

[YosemiteSam]

In the statistical department (reality), LeBron is clearly the game's best player. Take a look at his #1 in the league PER in each of the last several years.

In the emotional department (fan overreactions and bias), stats mean nothing, he is the worst human being on earth and an overrated, heartless player.

That about sums it up.

No, that is an over generalized statement. Everyone knows he is a great players, but he does have no heart or drive to put everything on the line to win. I think he is mentally weak. He has trouble handling the pressures. Nobody questions his athletic ability and talent. To be the very best ever, you have to have more than just talent and athletic ability. You can't be a quitter and that is a trait that LeBron has.

 

[romomania]

Bill Simmons wrote a good article on Lebron. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6640925/time-lebrondown-part-ii

 

[YosemiteSam]

Bill Simmons wrote a good article on Lebron. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6640925/time-lebrondown-part-ii

lol

Fact: The Decision special drew a better rating than the 2008 Finals, became an iconic moment, turned Jim Gray into a punching bag, gave bloggers a month of free shots at ESPN and turned "Taking my talents to South Beach" into a jack-of-all-trades phrase that meant you were about to leave your job, take a dump or pleasure yourself.

:laugh2:

 

[TheCount]

They have been pretty much doubling him (albeit delayed) almost the entire series. Afew times the help didn't get there in time--like in game 2 on the final drive--but normally they collapse on him with 2 or more guys.

I haven't seen a ton of doubling on Dirk, they do give help, but the Heat have been scared to leave the other Mavs unguarded for open shots so either Anthony or Haslem has mostly had to guard him one on one unless Dirk was close to the rim.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I haven't seen a ton of doubling on Dirk, they do give help, but the Heat have been scared to leave the other Mavs unguarded for open shots so either Anthony or Haslem has mostly had to guard him one on one unless Dirk was close to the rim.

You can't blame them either. If you don't play tight defense on them, the Mavs bench can score with the best of them. I can't remember which game it was, but the bench scored as many points as the other teams starters did.

 

[TheCount]

You can't blame them either. If you don't play tight defense on them, the Mavs bench can score with the best of them. I can't remember which game it was, but the bench scored as many points as the other teams starters did.

Pretty much. I'm sure they'd love to double him, but they can't afford to and I don't think they will start doing so going forward, unless they wanna go down 3-2 in a hurry.

 

[DFWJC]

I haven't seen a ton of doubling on Dirk, they do give help, but the Heat have been scared to leave the other Mavs unguarded for open shots so either Anthony or Haslem has mostly had to guard him one on one unless Dirk was close to the rim.

Yeah, that's true. At the point of attack they don't double--same as teams rarely actually doubled Jordan right when they came down court.

I consider almost immediate help to be double-teaming in the NBA. Sometimes the Heat don't even do that though. But more times than not they do give help farily quickly.

 

[MC KAos]

In the statistical department (reality), LeBron is clearly the game's best player. Take a look at his #1 in the league PER in each of the last several years.

In the emotional department (fan overreactions and bias), stats mean nothing, he is the worst human being on earth and an overrated, heartless player.

That about sums it up.

so you are saying danny granger is better than ginobili, since stats are the only thing that matter, not the fact that it depends on competition (east vs west) how good your team is (players like granger padding their stats after getting blown out) and other teams strategies (let this guy go off, shut down everyone else).

if you dont believe me, look at Richard Jefferson the year before he was traded to the spurs and then after

 

[Jed_70]

I'm really interested in seeing how Lebron responds to the criticism being thrown his way.

I think he has his best game of the Finals. I hope Deshawn Stevenson comes ready to play. I hate that he commented on Lebron yesterday with that "he checked out" comment.

I just hope that both Lebron and Wade don't get it going at the same time. The Mavs don't have an answer if both Wade and James are playing at the top of their game.
If the Mavs win tonight I think we win the series. ray:

 

[gmoney112]

I'm looking forward to Lebron's epic 14 point comeback performance. Maybe he'll actually score a basket in the 4th quarter this game. Probably not.