McFadden vs Morris

[HappyOnions]

I don't get the love some have for McFadden, it's like they still see the same back that came out of Arkansas eight years ago. Any average back could have done what he did behind our OL last season.

Agreed, which begs the question as to why we took a RB with the 4th overall pick...

 

[KJJ]

Agreed, which begs the question as to why we took a RB with the 4th overall pick...

We took an RB with the 4th overall pick because we're looking to pair a great back with our OL not an average one. We're not looking for average production, we're looking for someone special who can take advantage of playing behind the best OL in the NFL. We're trying to recreate what we had in the 90s by pairing a great back with a great OL.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Not having a QB or an elite WR didn't seem to have an affect on McFadden's TD production in 2010 in Oakland. Despite playing in 14 games and having a crap QB situation, behind an OL not nearly as good as the one he had with the Cowboys last season McFadden put up almost 1200 rushing yards and scored 10 TD's. He had a "career high" in carries last season behind arguably the best OL in the league and averaged under 4.0 a carry in 8 games. He was part of the reason the Cowboys were the worst team in the league as of the second week in Dec on 3rd and one. He played in 4 games with Romo and averaged under 4.0 a carry in 3 of those games. Against Carolina with Romo AND Dez on the field McFadden had his worst game of the season averaging 1.1 a carry on 10 carries. In his first 7 carries he took losses on 3 of them putting the game on Romo's shoulders which contributed to him being knocked out for the season. Neither Carolina or anyone else feared McFadden who no longer possess great speed. He's stiff out in space and isn't a game changer. He's not near the back he was in 2010 which is why the Cowboys signed Morris and drafted Zeke.

The above is a perfect example of twisting the "facts" to build a negative narrative.

As for Morris he had 3 straight 1000 yards seasons averaging around 4.5 per carry despite RG3's struggles in years 2 and 3. While Morris was putting up 29 TD's his first 4 seasons McFadden only produced 12 TD's. There was an article I posted pointing out all the changes Washington made to their offense as they transitioned away from RG3 that affected Morris's production. They got away from some of the zone blocking schemes that made Morris so effective. He's a very good runner between the tackles because of his great vision. He makes defenders miss and knows how to get the ball in the end zone. He's a solid back who will be terrific behind our OL. He may not put up the big yards because Zeke will get the brunt of the carries but he'll make the most out of his opportunities and he'll put some points on the board. I'm surprised Washington let him go, they may end up regretting it.

Aaaand conversely, this paragraph is a perfect example of filtering the "facts" to spin a positive narrative.

 

[Zman5]

Zeke = the star bell cow

Morris = the durable backup with great attitude that can spell Zeke in the SAME blocking scheme

Dunbar = the stellar 3rd down open space guy with HR potential

Jackson = the cheap special teamer who shows great promise and is similar in style to Morris

McFadden = the veteran who plays no special teams and requires a different blocking scheme


Which is the odd man out?

Zeke.

 

[KJJ]

First off, Romo didn't actually play in four complete games. He played in just two complete games (Giants and Dolphins). Secondly, McFadden wasn't even playing as the starter until Week 6. Thirdly, you bring up McFadden's "worst" game against Carolina with Romo, but fail to mention that Romo, prior to injury his collarbone (again), was having a horrific game in which he went 11 for 21, 106 yards and 3 INTs in a 14-33 loss.

Finally, you know enough to point out the fact that we leaned on McFadden while Romo was out and were getting ZERO from the Weeden and Cassell, but you refuse to see McFadden performed very well despite teams playing the run and daring us to throw while Romo & Dez were out.



Lol, yeah. What possibly could be your point?

How are you not seeing the logical extension of Romo playing and being part of the offensive attack? A healthy Romo can move the offense efficiently, force teams to play honest, convert 3rd downs, put the team in the red zone (giving guys like DMAC more opportunities to score), et cetera.

If you think DeMarco Murray has the year he did in 2014 with Matt Cassel or Weeden at the helm instead of Romo, you're nuts.

Romo played in 2 complete games and McFadden averaged under 4.0 a carry in both of them. He was given a similar role that Randel excelled in, in 2014. Romo was forced to put the ball up 45 times in the opener and was on pace for another 40 plus attempt game in week 2 when he was injured because neither Randel or McFadden was getting it done on the ground. You're defending a back who got beat out by Joseph Randel. lol The only reason McFadden got a starting opportunity last season was due to Randle being injured and released after another off the field incident. In only 6 games as the starter and 76 rushing attempts Randle scored more TD's than McFadden last season.

Randle matched McFadden's season high in TD's vs Atlanta with 3 TD's with no Dez and Brandon Weeden at QB. Randle would have likely rushed for more yards than McFadden did and doubled if not tripled his TD total had he not gotten injured and released. McFadden was HORRIBLE in an important game vs Tampa. He averaged only 1.9 per carry on 17 attempts. With just under 7 minutes to play and the Cowboys leading and wanting to milk the clock McFadden took a 7 yard loss on first down which put us in a passing situation the next 2 downs. It led to a punt and the Bucs winning in the closing seconds.

As for Demarco Murray he was putting up yards and TD's behind a transitioning OL in 2011. He rushed for over 1100 yards and had 9 TD's in 14 games in 2013. He wouldn't have had over 1800 yards without Romo in 2014 but if you pit a talented back behind a great OL they're going to gain yards regardless of their QB. Barry Sanders never played with a solid QB but that didn't stop him from producing and being a first ballot Hall of Famer. The same with Eric Dickerson, Earl Campbell and many other great backs who produced without having a strong QB.

I pointed out the the yards and TD's McFadden put up in Oakland in 2010 in only 14 games and he was stuck with Jason Campbell and Bruce Gradkowski as his QBs. If the Cowboys looked at McFadden's situation last season the way you are they wouldn't have drafted Zeke with the 4th overall pick. If they thought McFadden having Romo and Dez for 16 games would make that big a difference in his production they wouldn't have made the moves at RB they did this past offseason.

 

[KJJ]

The above is a perfect example of twisting the "facts" to build a negative narrative.

I don't twist facts and everything I provided support why the Cowboys used the 4th overall pick on an RB.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Here are some key stats that I think everyone should take a look at.

Despite McFadden coming into the league in 2008, because of his injury history he has a total of 1277 carries. Alfred Morris has 1078.

McFadden has 45 runs of 20 yards or more and 11 of 40 yards or more. Morris has 32 and 2 respectively.

I'm sure people are ready to say that McFadden is the way to get because of the speed burst he has over Morris... Let me ask you to hold off for a moment.

We establish that McFadden has 199 carries more than Morris. Well, Morris has 220 first downs to McFadden's 226. He has just as many first downs with about 200 carries less than McFadden... He also has 29 touchdowns to McFadden's 28.

Morris has a career average of 4.4 yards per carry whereas McFadden has a 4.2.

Imagine how much these numbers shift if you take out the 239 carries that McFadden had behind the Cowboy offensive line... That takes away 52 first downs.

I would say that the slight burst advantage that McFadden gives you isn't anywhere near valuable enough to play him over Morris.

Where I will tip my hat to McFadden is that he is a more well-rounded running back than Morris. He can catch out of the backfield. He is a threat in space. The problem here is that I think you have a much more viable threat in space with Dunbar than McFadden.

Ultimately, I don't see McFadden having a spot on this team.

Werent you the big McFadden fan during the off season? Talking about how great he did and what a good RB he is?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Romo played in 2 complete games and McFadden averaged under 4.0 a carry in both of them.

Sorry, I can't deal with the rest of your screed until you can actually get the facts straight.

Romo only played in TWO (2) complete games last year....against the Giants (Week 1) and the Dolphins (his first game back from injury).

Do you wanna dispute that?

Of those two games, McFadden wasn't even the starter in one (vs. the Giants) and against the Dolphins he ran for 129 yards averaging 4.4 YPC helping out the Cowboys with a less than stellar Romo to a victory, so your claim is factually bunk.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Guys here's the thing. I'm not even a McFadden supporter. It would be absolutely no sweat off my back if the team released him in favor of one of the other backs.

What I am objecting to is the ridiculous parsing of stats to spin a negative narrative and purposeful disregard of the real impacting factors (i.e. not having Romo as QB) that add context to what McFadden accomplished last year.

 

[KJJ]

Sorry, I can't deal with the rest of your screed until you can actually get the facts straight.

Romo only played in TWO (2) complete games last year....against the Giants (Week 1) and the Dolphins (his first game back from injury).

Do you wanna dispute that?

Of those two games, McFadden wasn't even the starter in one (vs. the Giants) and against the Dolphins he ran for 129 yards averaging 4.4 YPC helping out the Cowboys with a less than stellar Romo to a victory.

I misspoke, Romo obviously got injured in week 2 I pointed that out in a previous post. He played the entire game against the Giants in the opener and against Miami. McFadden looked good in only ONE of Romo's starts care to dispute that? He wasn't consistent. He followed up a very solid performance against the Giants in week 7 with a 3.2 rushing average vs Seattle the following week. He followed up a solid 4.4 rushing average vs Miami with a 1.1 rushing average vs Carolina.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I misspoke, Romo obviously got injured in week 2 I pointed that out in a previous post. He played the entire game against the Giants in the opener and against Miami. McFadden looked good in only ONE of Romo's starts care to dispute that? He wasn't consistent. He followed up a very solid performance against the Giants in week 7 with a 3.2 rushing average vs Seattle the following week. He followed up a solid 4.4 rushing average vs Miami with a 1.1 rushing average vs Carolina.

Lol, yeah, you "misspoke."

Now, you're claiming he wasn't "consistent." By what standard....what you've surmised in your mind? Please inform me what running back is "consistent?"

Adrian Peterson?

AD registered seven (7) 100+ yard games in 16 STARTS last year. He also followed up a great 158 yard game against the Falcons with an 18 yard (2.3 YPC) stinker against the Seahawks the next week. He also followed up a 203 yard performance with a 45 yard (3.5 YPC) dud against the Packers the next week. Does Adrian Peterson suck now? He doesn't look very "consistent."

Take one guess as to who was second in the NFL in 100+ yard games?

Go ahead.....you can say it.

McFadden with five (5) on just 11 STARTS.

Let me guess...."buh, buh, that's different!"

 

[KJJ]

Thirdly, you bring up McFadden's "worst" game against Carolina with Romo, but fail to mention that Romo, prior to injury his collarbone (again), was having a horrific game in which he went 11 for 21, 106 yards and 3 INTs in a 14-33 loss.

Romo was having a horrible game and some of that had to do with no help from McFadden and the running game. I pointed out that McFadden had 3 negative carries in his first 7 attempts which put the game on Romo's shoulders and he tried to do too much. That's usually when bad things happen with Romo. He was back having to carry the team and he imploded.

Finally, you know enough to point out the fact that we leaned on McFadden while Romo was out and were getting ZERO from the Weeden and Cassell, but you refuse to see McFadden performed very well despite teams playing the run and daring us to throw while Romo & Dez were out.

McFadden was AVERAGE in most of the games he played and his best rushing averages came with Cassel and Kellen Moore at QB.

 

[KJJ]

Lol, yeah, you "misspoke."

Now, you're claiming he wasn't "consistent." By what standard....what you've surmised in your mind? Please inform me what running back is "consistent?"

Adrian Peterson?

AD registered seven (7) 100+ yard games in 16 STARTS last year. He also followed up a great 158 yard game against the Falcons with an 18 yard (2.3 YPC) stinker against the Seahawks the next week. He also followed up a 203 yard performance with a 45 yard (3.5 YPC) dud against the Packers the next week. Does Adrian Peterson suck now? He doesn't look very "consistent."

Take one guess as to who was second in the NFL in 100+ yard games?

Go ahead.....you can say it.

McFadden with five (5) on just 11 STARTS.

Let me guess...."buh, buh, that's different!"

Do you call 8 games with under a 4.0 rushing average consistent? lol He had 2 games in which he started where he averaged under 2.0 a carry. As for Adrian Peterson he led the league with 1485 yards and 11 TD's and you're trying to make comparisons with his season and McFadden's???

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Do you call 8 games with under a 4.0 rushing average consistent? lol He had 2 games in which he started where he averaged under 2.0 a carry. As for Adrian Peterson he led the league with 1485 yards and 11 TD's and you're trying to make comparisons with his season and McFadden's???

Aaaaaand, he also had apx. 90 more carries than McFadden and 5 more games playing as the starter, not to mention he played with a much more competent and consistent QB. AD also had 7 games in which he averaged less than 4.0 yards per carry.

This is just a matter of honesty or intelligence at this point and either way you've proven yourself completely devoid.

 

[Galian Beast]

Werent you the big McFadden fan during the off season? Talking about how great he did and what a good RB he is?

Absolutely. I'm a big McFadden fan. That doesn't change what I'm saying though.

 

[KJJ]

Lol, yeah, you "misspoke."

Yeah I misspoke, McFadden averaged under 4.0 a carry in only one of the two full games Romo started. By the way your posting style reminds me of someone. You've only been a member under this username since March 30 so what was the username you got banned under? Lol

 

[KJJ]

Aaaaaand, he also had apx. 120 more carries than McFadden and 5 more games playing as the starter. AD also had 7 games in which he averaged less than 4.0 yards per carry.

This is just a matter of honesty or intelligence at this point and either way you've proven yourself completely devoid.

AP got more carries because he's a productive game changer who puts points on the board. Here you are talking about this being a matter of intelligence and you're trying to make comparisons between AP's season in 2015 and McFadden's. Lol

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Yeah I misspoke, McFadden averaged under 4.0 a carry in only one of the two full games Romo started. By the way your posting style reminds me of someone. You've only been a member under this username since March 30 so what was the username you got banned under? Lol

That's funny, your equally uniformed and inane posting style is unmistakably you.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I don't twist facts and everything I provided support why the Cowboys used the 4th overall pick on an RB.

From the jump, all you've done is completely twist the "facts" and completely ignore any information that flies in the face of your theory.

Spouting off numbers without context isn't providing support. It's blathering information incessantly with the hope of passing it off as useful.

 

[KJJ]

That's funny, your equally uniformed and inane posting style is unmistakably you.

I can spot a banned member who's returned under a different username a mile away when they've had numerous discussions with me. Their username may change but not their insight or posting style.