McNabb-"Black QBs get criticized more than White QBs"

[DallasEast]

I really can't believe this is your honest opinion.

You don't think Eli Manning is held to a higher standard ?
Matt Leinart ?
Etc., I hope you are kidding.

He's not. That's the point.

 

[Doomsday]

McNabb is and always will be a front runner. When things go his way hes on top the world, the minute things start to go against him he folds.

 

[DallasCowpoke]

I'm STILL waiting to see WHERE and WHEN McNabb made this comment?

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Irrelevant. One or two posters are trying to de-evolve the issue of ego to something it really isn't.

Sad but true, I suppose.

95% of the criticism, I have read about Campbell (even from the media and Cowboys fans), can be attributed to youth (He only started his 9th game last night). The other 5% is just blind hatred which I am ok with too.

Romo criticism is about the same. Otherwise both guys are primarily considered young, up and coming QB's with the magic word...Potential.

 

[superpunk]

I'm STILL waiting to see WHERE and WHEN McNabb made this comment?

They're on a roll. Don't stop them now.

 

[miamicowboy21]

McNabb is and always will be a front runner. When things go his way hes on top the world, the minute things start to go against him he folds.

That's what they're saying on WIP right now. When everything is going great he's jolly, when the team gets down he's shows no moxie. I can't wait to hear the punk eskin talk his way out of this. He guranteed a victory last night. He also said philty would win 12 games. Cowboy fans are going to flood the phonelines today just to rub it in. This is going to be a great listen this afternoon.

 

[Doomsday101]

Sad but true, I suppose.

95% of the criticism, I have read about Campbell (even from the media and Cowboys fans), can be attributed to youth (He only started his 9th game last night). The other 5% is just blind hatred which I am ok with too.

Romo criticism is about the same. Otherwise both guys are primarily considered young, up and coming QB's with the magic word...Potential.

I agree. There is no telling how Campbell will do down the line. I think he has shown flashes of being a good QB but still has a lot of work to do. In the meantime Washington is 2-0 and that helps buy Campbell more time to develop without the fans coming down to hard.

 

[Big Dakota]

They're on a roll. Don't stop them now.

This train's NEVER late.

 

[AtlCB]

Well explain to me why these white QB's are still employed in the NFL

Trent Green

He was better than Harrington and Culpepper. He's really old, but the Phins felt he was the best option available at the time.

David Carr

He's a quality backup quarterback.

Eli Manning

He has a 97.5 QB rating so far this season.

Joey Harrington

He can be a decent backup, but I think he stinks as a starter. Atlanta is talking to Byron Leftwich, so his days as a starter may be over soon.

Rex Grossman

You'll have to ask Lovie Smith why he hasn't been benched. He's horrible.

Chad Pennington

He has injury concerns every year, but he is a very good QB when healty. He's only thrown 21 passes, but he has a 130.5 QB rating playing against a very good Patriots defense.

Kyle Boller

Boller is a really bad example. The Ravens invested a #1 draft pick in him and still went out and got McNair in free agency to be the starter. Boller is still a very good backup QB.

If black quarterbacks are held to a higher standard, can you explain why Tavaris Jackson is still starting in Minnesota with Kelly Holcomb also on the roster? Could it be that the coaching staff believes Jackson will eventually be a good starting QB and are more concerned with winning than the race of the quarterbacks?

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I think alot are missing the point. When Vince Young breaks out the pocket, he is criticized for not staying in the pocket and going to a check down. Totally ignoring the impact his feet have on the defense.

Now, is this a complaint about mobile QBs or black QBs, well it depends on what helps you sleep at night. Been said here, many times, how horrible a QB Vick was, yet he had won ballgames sometimes with his feet alone. But, he is condemned for passing percentages and such. Too much is put on "classic" QB numbers, and not their impact in the game, as is done with Vince right now.

I do think in McNabb's case, he is using it as an excuse that doesn't fit him right now. In the past, McNabb was criticized also for leaving the pocket, so he made himself into a pocket passer. But in general, since a larger percentage of black QBs are scramblers (for every Steve Young, you have Vince, Vick, Randall....), they do get criticized for it more, whether it is a race issue or not.

 

[Hoov]

That's what they're saying on WIP right now. When everything is going great he's jolly, when the team gets down he's shows no moxie. I can't wait to hear the punk eskin talk his way out of this. He guranteed a victory last night. He also said philty would win 12 games. Cowboy fans are going to flood the phonelines today just to rub it in. This is going to be a great listen this afternoon.

No, he Pouts when things are going bad. The whole eagles team was looking deflated at halftime heading into the locker room, there was no one tyring to rally the troops.

Strange statistic - the eagles are now 1-9 in games where McNabb is pouting by halftime : :

 

[cobra]

Danny WHITE was booed.

I think that disproves his thesis.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think alot are missing the point. When Vince Young breaks out the pocket, he is criticized for not staying in the pocket and going to a check down. Totally ignoring the impact his feet have on the defense.

Now, is this a complaint about mobile QBs or black QBs, well it depends on what helps you sleep at night. Been said here, many times, how horrible a QB Vick was, yet he had won ballgames sometimes with his feet alone. But, he is condemned for passing percentages and such. Too much is put on "classic" QB numbers, and not their impact in the game, as is done with Vince right now.

I do think in McNabb's case, he is using it as an excuse that doesn't fit him right now. In the past, McNabb was criticized also for leaving the pocket, so he made himself into a pocket passer. But in general, since a larger percentage of black QBs are scramblers (for every Steve Young, you have Vince, Vick, Randall....), they do get criticized for it more, whether it is a race issue or not.

NFL QB's are expected to get the balls to their weapons and use running as a last resort. For any young QB they tend to rely on their athletic ability when they feel things are breaking down but many times if they hang in there a bit long they allow the WR to get past the coverage (that is what Dallas is working with on Romo) Young was that way as was Roger Stauback but as they develop and have a better understanding the game slows down in their eyes and they stay in the pocket a bit longer to make the throw. They still have mobility when things break down and that is a great asset for any QB but they are expected to get players around them involved.

 

[Hoov]

I think alot are missing the point. When Vince Young breaks out the pocket, he is criticized for not staying in the pocket and going to a check down. Totally ignoring the impact his feet have on the defense.

Now, is this a complaint about mobile QBs or black QBs, well it depends on what helps you sleep at night. Been said here, many times, how horrible a QB Vick was, yet he had won ballgames sometimes with his feet alone. But, he is condemned for passing percentages and such. Too much is put on "classic" QB numbers, and not their impact in the game, as is done with Vince right now.

I do think in McNabb's case, he is using it as an excuse that doesn't fit him right now. In the past, McNabb was criticized also for leaving the pocket, so he made himself into a pocket passer. But in general, since a larger percentage of black QBs are scramblers (for every Steve Young, you have Vince, Vick, Randall....), they do get criticized for it more, whether it is a race issue or not.

QB's scrambling for first downs is fine, but history shows you cant make a career out of it. You also have to make the throws. Vick is criticized for being an awful passer and he is. Now Randall made some great plays running and some great plays throwing, i would have never suggested that he be a pocket passer. Vince, is intresting player, i'll take the wait and see aproach with him.

 

[AtlCB]

I think alot are missing the point. When Vince Young breaks out the pocket, he is criticized for not staying in the pocket and going to a check down. Totally ignoring the impact his feet have on the defense.

Now, is this a complaint about mobile QBs or black QBs, well it depends on what helps you sleep at night. Been said here, many times, how horrible a QB Vick was, yet he had won ballgames sometimes with his feet alone. But, he is condemned for passing percentages and such. Too much is put on "classic" QB numbers, and not their impact in the game, as is done with Vince right now.

I do think in McNabb's case, he is using it as an excuse that doesn't fit him right now. In the past, McNabb was criticized also for leaving the pocket, so he made himself into a pocket passer. But in general, since a larger percentage of black QBs are scramblers (for every Steve Young, you have Vince, Vick, Randall....), they do get criticized for it more, whether it is a race issue or not.

The problem with Vick is that the better teams had the players to take away his running lanes and force him to stay in the pocket. Vick was rarely able to beat these teams from the pocket, and these teams knew it. He was (like McNabb) hampered by the fact that his receivers were never that good, but you still expect more from a first overall draft choice. Vick did have some great skill though. He had one of the best deep balls while throwing on the run. Many people just believe that he could have been one of the best ever if he developed the skill of passing from the pocket.

 

[Hostile]

In HS I played RB and LB. At one time I was on a team and we had a Black QB. I got approached by a coach asking me to play QB so they could move him to RB. I was perplexed because there was no way on this earth I was as good a QB as he was, though he was probably capable of being as good a RB as I was. It's not that I couldn't play QB. He was better.

I asked this coach why and his answer was so stupid I wanted to punch him. I am dead serious about this answer.

"It's important to have a Black RB because the football is brown and it is easier to be disguised in their arms and possibly confuse the defense for a split second."

I kid you not.

Now admittedly that was the late 70's and early 80's era and much has happened since then that is positive. But it is important that we never forget that these ideas have been out there.

Having said that, I think Donovan is out of line with this. Every QB gets scrutiny. I do not believe in this day and age that Black QBs are more scrutinized than White QBs or our Hispanic QB. I do think how much scrutiny a QB depends upon the city they play in. Newsflash Donovan, you play in Philadelphia. They are always angry little pessimists there and your only salvation is to play well. When you stink it up, you're going to get lambasted. That's a fact of life.

Tony Romo plays in the glare of Big D. His bobble in Seattle is going to get amplified not because he is Hispanic, but because he's following guys like Aikman and Staubach. Don't believe me? Ask any of the White QBs in Denver who have tried to make it there what it is like to follow John Elway. It has nothing to do with Elway being White. It has to do with Elway being amazing.

Scrutiny of the QB is part of the package and there are always going to be people in and out of the game who question the intentions of those who criticize. Should they? Probably not. I think being accused of racism when someone is not racist is one of the most heinous things you can say about a person.

McNabb's problem is not that he's Black. His problem is that he plays a position that people demand a lot of you. Apparently he is overly sensitive to every criticism as this is not the first time he has insinuated these things. The best QB in the game right now is probably Peyton Manning. Until last year's Super Bowl he was always going to be labeled as the guy who could not win the big game. Is that fair? No, but it's reality because he's a QB and a good one.

The point is, so is McNabb. If he wasn't any good no one would have any expectations of him. He has failed (as one of an entire team) to live up to the hopes of the fans and media of Philadelphia. They'd be on him if he was White, Black, Hispanic, Native American, Asian, Arabic, or any other qualifier.

He needs to grow up and accept things like a man. Right now, he comes across as a spoiled brat who can't stand not to have everything his way.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

NFL QB's are expected to get the balls to their weapons and use running as a last resort. For any young QB they tend to rely on their athletic ability when they feel things are breaking down but many times if they hang in there a bit long they allow the WR to get past the coverage (that is what Dallas is working with on Romo) Young was that way as was Roger Stauback but as they develop and have a better understanding the game slows down in their eyes and they stay in the pocket a bit longer to make the throw. They still have mobility when things break down and that is a great asset for any QB but they are expected to get players around them involved.

QB's scrambling for first downs is fine, but history shows you cant make a career out of it. You also have to make the throws. Vick is criticized for being an awful passer and he is. Now Randall made some great plays running and some great plays throwing, i would have never suggested that he be a pocket passer. Vince, is intresting player, i'll take the wait and see aproach with him.

Yeah, I think both of you get my point though. Think of how many true pocket passing black QBs have played in the league.....not many, sure there are some, but not as many as scrambling ones. I do think that the scrambling QB's effect of his feet on time of possession and such is underrated. Sure you can't scramble for forever, but their impact is still just too underrated by "QB ratings".

As an engineer, I will tell you, sometimes numbers don't tell you anything at all about what is really going on in real life.

 

[SportsAnalyzer]

First of all, rex grossman is BELOW AVERAGE. so he is a bad example, i'm just saying it's ok to be a AVERAGE QB if you are white but if you are black you have to be ABOVE average. I'm not trying to start a debate just pointing how the way the league is. You are not going to tell me the white QB's below are not AVERAGE QB's

joey harrington
john kitna
chad pennington
kyle boller


If you are black qb and avergae, the you will be CUT or on the bench getting ready to be cut like

Dante Culpepper
Byrin Leftwich

 

[Skin]

I'm STILL waiting to see WHERE and WHEN McNabb made this comment?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3025308


Report: McNabb says black QBs under more pressure
ESPN.com news services

Updated: September 18, 2007, 9:30 AM ET
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African-American quarterbacks face more pressure and more criticism than their white counterparts, Philadelphia Eagles QB Donovan McNabb says in an interview scheduled to air on HBO on Tuesday night.



McNabb
McNabb, in an interview on "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel," tells interviewer James Brown that African-American quarterbacks such as himself face added pressure because there are fewer black QBs -- and because some still don't want black athletes playing the position.

"There's not that many African-American quarterbacks, so we have to do a little bit extra," McNabb tells HBO. "Because the percentage of us playing this position, which people didn't want us to play ... is low, so we do a little extra."




Later in the interview, Brown presses McNabb on criticism of his performance -- and if African-American QBs are graded more harshly.



"I pass for 300 yards, our team wins by seven, [mimicking] 'Ah, he could've made this throw, they would have scored if he did this,' " McNabb tells HBO.


"Doesn't every quarterback go through that?" Brown asks.



"Not everybody," McNabb replies.

Brown then asks if the media is tougher on him than on white quarterbacks such as Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning.



"Let me start by saying I love those guys," McNabb tells HBO. "But they don't get criticized as much as we do. They don't."



In the interview, McNabb also talks to Brown about playing in Philadelphia, a city known for passionate sports fans who aren't afraid to criticize the city's pro athletes.

"Every year I'm part of some criticism," McNabb tells HBO. "But every day that we go through life, you're faced with a lot of adversity. Now the answer is how do you handle the adversity. How do you respond?



"I try to handle myself with class. I try to handle myself with dignity. I think sometimes people look to players to act out, speak loudly, pretty much be an idiot. But that's not me."

 

[khiladi]

The problem with Vick is that the better teams had the players to take away his running lanes and force him to stay in the pocket. Vick was rarely able to beat these teams from the pocket, and these teams knew it. He was (like McNabb) hampered by the fact that his receivers were never that good, but you still expect more from a first overall draft choice. Vick did have some great skill though. He had one of the best deep balls while throwing on the run. Many people just believe that he could have been one of the best ever if he developed the skill of passing from the pocket.

Actually, part of that reason is Vick has never had a decent WR core to back him up. They drop balls like nobody's business. I'm not saying he is a great quarterback, but he was pretty damn accurate when playing Dallas last year.