Mel Kiper on ESPN 103.3

dstew60105

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,460
Reaction score
769
joshjwp said:
You kidding me right? Cody is a freak. He has the best motor in the draft, except for maybe Pollack, but that is even a toss up. Also Cody can play DE in a 4-3 and OLB in a 3-4. He has already done both. Mel Kiper Jr. had him ahead of both Johnson and Merriman until the combine, not sure now, he hasn't posted a new mock yet.

I've seen him play 3-4 times last year and he dissappeared. I'm just not that impressed with him. Could be wrong.
 

RoundRock Fan

New Member
Messages
53
Reaction score
0
if dj is there at #11 you have to take him. regardless of if he fits into your system or not, he is a play who makes plays. isn't that what you want on your team?

at #20 we trade back (either into late first or early early second) recoup our 3rd rounder we gave to Houston for Henson, and select the BPA.
 

Dyluke

Member
Messages
442
Reaction score
0
joshjwp said:
You kidding me right? Cody is a freak. He has the best motor in the draft, except for maybe Pollack, but that is even a toss up. Also Cody can play DE in a 4-3 and OLB in a 3-4. He has already done both. Mel Kiper Jr. had him ahead of both Johnson and Merriman until the combine, not sure now, he hasn't posted a new mock yet.

He's a freak alright...and hopefully he isn't found wondering around on a freeway like one of our last reaches on the Dline
 

lzppjb

New Member
Messages
343
Reaction score
0
lacks 'the fire' necessary.

Obviously didn't watch many Texas games. He was one of the most intense players on the entire team. He doesn't have a lot of sacks because he wasn't used that way at Texas. The only reason people say he doesn't tackle well is because he doesn't always wrap up like he should. He usually is moving so fast, and he hits the ball carrier with such force, that the guy just flies backward. He can be taught to wrap up more consistently. He has a nose for the ball and knows how to strip the ball from the carrier. He has the speed to blitz the QB if needed, and he knows how to finish the job when he gets there.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,585
Reaction score
15,755
Mel is right.
And believe me Mel is only saying this because scouts have told him he was wrong after his initial projections of DJ as the best player in the country.

The next big hit DJ lands on someone will be the first. He is a finesse player. Those fumbles are from punching the ball out, not knocking a heads jock in the dirt like RW.

DJ will be there at 11 but I doubt very seriously we select him. He should go to the Rams. He is a speed backer who can and will make some plays but will flat get abused by blockers other times.

The two most overrated player sint his drfat are the two favorites of this board:
Mike Williams and Derrick Johnson.

Both will be good players but not as good as the masses seem to believe IMO. Both guys have serious holes in their games.

Nobody cared much last year that TNew had won the Thorpe award or Antonio Bryant the WR award, or Josh Heupel the Heisman.
 

lzppjb

New Member
Messages
343
Reaction score
0
The next big hit DJ lands on someone will be the first.

EHH, wrong.

Try watching a few games. Opponents knew exactly what he was about. Last year Reggie McNeal from A&M had the ball in the open field with only DJ to get around. What did he do? He fell down and got in the fetal position. DJ just looked at him, laughed, and walked off. Reggie had already taken a beating from DJ that day. He knew what was coming.

I've watched just about every game in DJ's college career. He makes a big hit in almost every game. From his freshman year in the Holiday Bowl where he hit Washington's QB so hard, he barely got up. To this past year knocking Razorbacks, Owls and who knows what else backwards 3 or 4 yards with a hit. Not to mention leaping over a running back, going at least 3+ yards in the air, and batting down a pass from the QB.
 

ghettogandhi

Active Member
Messages
1,005
Reaction score
7
joshjwp said:
You kidding me right? Cody is a freak. He has the best motor in the draft, except for maybe Pollack, but that is even a toss up. Also Cody can play DE in a 4-3 and OLB in a 3-4. He has already done both. Mel Kiper Jr. had him ahead of both Johnson and Merriman until the combine, not sure now, he hasn't posted a new mock yet.

kiper never had cody ahead of johnson-

johnson and merriman are the two best linebackers in this draft- and it aint even close-

my fear in this draft is that merriman and williams will both be gone by 11.
ideal draft
11- merriman or derrick johnson
20 troy williamson or erasmus james/ antaj hawthorne
 

junk

I've got moxie
Messages
9,294
Reaction score
247
jterrell said:
Mel is right.
And believe me Mel is only saying this because scouts have told him he was wrong after his initial projections of DJ as the best player in the country.

The next big hit DJ lands on someone will be the first. He is a finesse player. Those fumbles are from punching the ball out, not knocking a heads jock in the dirt like RW.

DJ will be there at 11 but I doubt very seriously we select him. He should go to the Rams. He is a speed backer who can and will make some plays but will flat get abused by blockers other times.

The two most overrated player sint his drfat are the two favorites of this board:
Mike Williams and Derrick Johnson.

Both will be good players but not as good as the masses seem to believe IMO. Both guys have serious holes in their games.

Nobody cared much last year that TNew had won the Thorpe award or Antonio Bryant the WR award, or Josh Heupel the Heisman.

That won't go over well with all the Texas fans around here. The knock on DJ that bothers me is that he either doesn't like to or isn't good at taking on blockers. That bothers me for a LBer.

Definitely a weakside LBer in the NFL.
 

bounce

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Reaction score
486
Alexander said:
Heupel won the Heisman?


No...Terrell was wrong. Weinke won it that year.

Of course...I guess you could replace Heupel's name with Weinke.
 

lzppjb

New Member
Messages
343
Reaction score
0
The knock on DJ that bothers me is that he either doesn't like to or isn't good at taking on blockers.

I just got finished watching highlights of DJ from this past season from each game. There were quite a few plays where he took on the blocker, got around him, and made a TFL. Including twice against OU...one where he upended AP in the hole.
 

ddh33

Active Member
Messages
4,934
Reaction score
2
jterrell said:
Mel is right.
And believe me Mel is only saying this because scouts have told him he was wrong after his initial projections of DJ as the best player in the country.

The next big hit DJ lands on someone will be the first. He is a finesse player. Those fumbles are from punching the ball out, not knocking a heads jock in the dirt like RW.

DJ will be there at 11 but I doubt very seriously we select him. He should go to the Rams. He is a speed backer who can and will make some plays but will flat get abused by blockers other times.

The two most overrated player sint his drfat are the two favorites of this board:
Mike Williams and Derrick Johnson.

Both will be good players but not as good as the masses seem to believe IMO. Both guys have serious holes in their games.

Nobody cared much last year that TNew had won the Thorpe award or Antonio Bryant the WR award, or Josh Heupel the Heisman.

So, out of curiosity, who do you prefer the Cowboys draft, JT?
 

InmanRoshi

Zone Scribe
Messages
18,334
Reaction score
90
I think Channing Crowder is more of a Parcells-type linebacker than Derrick Johnson. Style-wise, DJ is really a taller Dexter Coakely.
 

Chocolate Lab

Run-loving Dino
Messages
36,590
Reaction score
9,851
I'm really hoping we get Crowder. I just have a feeling he's going to be good... And you're right, he should be a perfect Parcells guy: Big, strong, aggressive, and mean.

Hey, the guy wrestled boars for fun. :eek:
 

ddh33

Active Member
Messages
4,934
Reaction score
2
InmanRoshi said:
I think Channing Crowder is more of a Parcells-type linebacker than Derrick Johnson. Style-wise, DJ is really a taller Dexter Coakely.

See, I agree. I'm really interested in Crowder. He was a heck of a player at Florida, and if I'm not mistaken, actually rushed the passer quite a bit on obvious passing downs. Keep an eye on him.

Daryl Blackstock is the other guy I think Cowboy fans should keep an eye on.
 

tyke1doe

Well-Known Member
Messages
53,667
Reaction score
32,042
jterrell said:
Mel is right.
And believe me Mel is only saying this because scouts have told him he was wrong after his initial projections of DJ as the best player in the country.

The next big hit DJ lands on someone will be the first. He is a finesse player. Those fumbles are from punching the ball out, not knocking a heads jock in the dirt like RW.

DJ will be there at 11 but I doubt very seriously we select him. He should go to the Rams. He is a speed backer who can and will make some plays but will flat get abused by blockers other times.

The two most overrated player sint his drfat are the two favorites of this board:
Mike Williams and Derrick Johnson.

Both will be good players but not as good as the masses seem to believe IMO. Both guys have serious holes in their games.

Nobody cared much last year that TNew had won the Thorpe award or Antonio Bryant the WR award, or Josh Heupel the Heisman.

:clap:

:clap2:

:clap:

:clap2:
 

InmanRoshi

Zone Scribe
Messages
18,334
Reaction score
90
Chocolate Lab said:
I'm really hoping we get Crowder. I just have a feeling he's going to be good... And you're right, he should be a perfect Parcells guy: Big, strong, aggressive, and mean.

Hey, the guy wrestled boars for fun. :eek:

He's a boom or bust player. If he stays healthy and keeps his head on straight, he maybe the most dominant player in this draft. But I think he's the perfect Parcells linebacker. I saw a comparison that compared him to James Farrior, who Parcells fell in love with.

But his question marks are big question marks. His injury history is pretty scary.

CROWDER, Randolph “Channing”
Florida
55
2003

Height 6:02.3
Weight 247
Bench Press 360
Squat 580
Power Clean 343
Vertical Jump 34
Broad Jump

Arms 33.25
Hands 9.75
Time (1) 4.58
Time (2) 4.62

Grade One 1.30
Grade Two 1.21
2004 Best Games
Eastern Michigan, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi State.
2004 Worst Games
Georgia, Florida State (due to injuries).
2003 Best Games
Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Georgia, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Iowa.
2003 Worst Games
Miami, Florida A&M, Louisiana State.
Body Structure
Channing has a muscular, cut-up body with good shoulder and chest width and the potential to add more bulk to his frame. He has a lean waist, good bubble, muscular legs with good bulk and long limbs.
General Report
1.30

Athletic Ability
1.3
Channing has very good athletic ability. He has some stiffness in his hips, but shows outstanding foot quickness and acceleration. Crowder also shows above average balance and change of direction agility. The big concern here might be with his durability, as he has had several serious injuries since his senior year in high school.
Football Sense
1.1
Despite only two years of college ball, he displays very good field smarts and the ability to quickly see the play develop. This is not a rep guy, as he easily takes the play from the boards to the field. He is dedicated to the game and shows urgency in his play. He is a very articulate sort and excels in the classroom.
Character
2.0
He is brash, cocky and marches to his own drummer, all great traits for a linebacker, but that attitude has led to problems off the field that bring up serious concerns about his maturity. The son of former Miami Dolphins and Tampa Bay Bucs defensive lineman Randy Crowder, he has had a series of off-field legal issues.

In January 2003, police filed complaints against offensive guard Mo Mitchell, Channing and teammate Brian Crum. They were accused of tearing the mirrors off eight cars.

The State Attorney's office dismissed charges later in the year against the three after State attorney Bill Cervone said investigators were unable to locate the only witness in the case, and there was no forensic evidence to move the case forward. In January, police filed complaints against Mitchell, who played extensively for the Gators last season, and teammates Brian Crum and Channing Crowder. Gainesville police officer Carol Davis took the report from a witness and a sworn complaint was filed, which includes eight misdemeanor charges with a total damage estimate of $1,200, according to the police report.
Prior to the 2003 season, Channing and fellow Florida freshman, defensive end Steven Harris, were booked into the Alachua County jail. The incident happened at 2 a.m. on April 13 in the parking lot of The Palace nightclub. Both Crowder and Harris punched and kicked Brian Assent in the head and face, according to the arrest report. Assents' friends brought him to the hospital. The attack lead to "permanent disfigurement," reads the report in part. Assent, 22, lost a tooth and had five others loosened. He got a cut on his face that required 11 stitches, along with other cuts and bruises. He told police a few hours later that a few UF football players showed up at The Palace and started causing problems, said Gainesville Police Sgt. Keith Kameg. When Assent left the nightclub, someone reportedly punched him in the face. He fell, lost consciousness, and didn't remember the rest of the attack. His friends later told him a couple of people kicked him several times and that they might be UF football players, Kameg said. Assent positively identified Crowder and Harris from a photo lineup, according to the report. The two were arrested at the Springs Complex on the University of Florida campus. Crowder was placed on supervised probation for six months and had to pay $340 in fines and court costs and serve 34 hours of community service. Crowder also was ordered to have no contact with the student, attend counseling at the university and not to drink alcohol. Florida coach Ron Zook suspended Channing for the 2003 season opener vs. San Jose State as punishment.

In May 2004, Channing was arrested again for disorderly conduct outside of the same nightclub. The second arrest violated his probation from the first incident and he was sentenced to 20 hours of community service. The incident began as Crowder and an unidentified man began shouting at one another. A crowd gathered around the men, drawing the police's attention. Officer Robert Hager told them to leave, but Crowder stopped in the middle of the street, held up traffic and kept yelling at the other man, according to the report. Seconds later, Crowder began arguing with another man and chased him when he fled. Police caught up to them in the parking lot of another nightclub a few blocks away, and an officer fell trying to apprehend Crowder. Crowder ran again but stopped when Hager yelled his name. Police say Crowder then refused to put his hands behind his back when they tried to handcuff him. According to the report, Herring "repeatedly interfered" with the officers as they tried to arrest Crowder. They said he refused officers' commands to leave the area. Crowder was charged with disorderly conduct, and Herring was charged with resisting or obstructing without violence. They were released from the Alachua County Detention Center later Sunday. Coach Ron Zook suspended both for the 2004 Middle Tennessee game as punishment.
Competitiveness
1.0
He shows outstanding toughness and field savvy. He will talk trash with the opponents and promise to punish them on the field. He drew some stares from the Tennessee football team as a freshman when he openly challenged the Vols players and none accepted his offer. He plays with a high motor and is constantly around the ball. He will throw his body around recklessly to make the play and always gives high effort on the field.
Work Habits
1.1
He is a tireless worker in the weight room and plays with such vigor, the coaches sometimes have to ask him to tone it down in practice, for fear that he will hurt a teammate. He has good playing strength and an excellent burst. He shows great urgency closing on the ball and will unload into running backs with no concern for his own welfare.



Athletic Report
1.19

Key and Diagnostic Skills
1.1
He has excellent linebacker instincts for pre-snap movement. He consistently finds the ball and has plays with very good field awareness.
Playing Strength and Explosion
1.3
He has good strength, but will struggle some vs. the inside run. He is a much better hitter on the perimeter than in tight quarters. He does hold his ground well when he keeps his hands active to prevent blockers from attacking his feet, using strong rip moves to slip off blocks.
Lateral Pursuit/Range
1.1
He has outstanding ability to flow to the ball. Even when he gets cut working through traffic, he is quick to pop back up. He is a little stiff in his hips, but very active to shift down the line and locate the ball.
Use of Hands
1.2
He has very good hand quickness and enough functional strength to stun, jolt and reroute tight ends. He uses his hands with force to hold the tight end at the line of scrimmage. HE also shows natural hands to make the play on the ball in pass coverage, doing a nice job of tracking the pigskin in and getting to the pass at its high point. He has soft hands to pluck and snatch the ball.
Tackling Ability
1.1
This is where he excels. Despite some hip stiffness, he stays low in his pads and generates enough burst to make plays in space. He shows excellent body control in the open and is a classic wrap-up tackler who will jolt the ball carriers back upon contact.
Run Defense
1.1
He is quick to fill the rush lanes and has the size to stun offensive linemen, but needs to do a better job with his hands, as he sometimes struggles to disengage when working in-line. When he is active with his hands, he gets to the play and can string it wide. His speed makes it very difficult for the offensive lineman to contain when coming off the backside. He also has the speed and stride to reach outside and displays the instincts to sniff out the ball and make the play. His acceleration is the reason that he consistently makes the cut off.
Pass Defense
1.3
He has above average speed and awareness to run with the receiver over the middle and in the flat. He shows a natural ability to turn and mirror working in the deep zone. He has the agility to make plays on the ball, as his soft hands allow him to pluck and snatch away from the body’s framework.
Zone Defense
1.3
In 2004, he showed marked improvement in making the switch-off in his area. He always had good ball reaction skills, but seemed to react a bit late to the thrown ball in 2003. His natural football instincts took over in 2004, as he greatly improved his ability to read the passer and react to the ball.
Pass Rush and Blitz
1.2
The team really did not use him properly in this area. For a player of his speed, I was disappointed that they kept him in containment too much. When allowed to freelance, Channing showed the outstanding speed, burst and effort to collapse the pocket, especially when coming off the edge (see 2004 LSU and Mississippi State games). HE is best when moving forward, as he can push the pocket and race past blocks.






Summation


Born Randolph Channing Crowder, the son of former NFL defensive lineman Randy Crowder was a standout linebacker at North Springs (Atlanta, Ga.) High School. He was a consensus All-American choice as a senior, recording 114 tackles with 7.5 sacks while also seeing action at tailback, where he gained 800 yards. That season’s high soon gave way to the realization that Channing might never play college football. He underwent knee surgery as a sophomore, where he had a ligament transplant. After his senior year, Channing again underwent surgery, this time on both of his knees. Shortly after his 18th birthday on December 2, 2001, he had surgery. There was a second surgery on the left knee in April 2002, to repair problems from another operation his sophomore year in high school. He'd had another surgery in which the ligament of a cadaver was used to replace the other damaged anterior cruciate ligament. Two years later, the knee had rejected the transplant. Both knees have been repaired by taking the middle one-third of the patella tendon to replace the ACLs. He worked diligently to get back in shape, but had to sit out the 2002 season -- not enrolling at Florida to save a year of eligibility. He enrolled at Florida in January, 2003, but ran into a series of off-field problems that would see him arrested twice for fighting at a night club and once for vandalizing several automobiles with other Florida gridders. A highly intelligent person, he was a member of the National Honor Society, carrying a 3.5 grade point average.

On the field, he is brash and cocky, but has the talent to back up his bold outbursts. He earned National Defensive Freshman of the Year honors from the Sporting News and All-American accolades from the Football Writers Association in 2003, starting nine games at middle linebacker. He led the nation’s freshmen, as he averaged 8.2 tackles per game that year, finishing second on the squad with 109 tackles (65 solos), including a pair of sacks, five stops for losses and four pass deflection. As a freshman, he started nine times, earning a pair of starts in the middle and six others at weak-side outside linebacker, missing the season opener vs. San Jose State while serving a suspension (for his arrest at the night club). Crowder started seven of eight games in 2004, sitting out the Middle Tennessee clash after again being charged in a fight and the Vanderbilt and South Carolina games after he strained tendons in his right foot early in the first quarter vs. Georgia. He still managed to finish as the team’s leading tackler with 70 hits (41 solos), two sacks, 8.5 stops behind the line of scrimmage, two fumble recoveries and an interception. Channing is blessed with incredible field awareness, outstanding speed and natural power, but durability and character issues will certainly come into play before a team makes a decision on whether to draft him in April. With his mentor, Ron Zook, fired as Florida’s coach and taskmaster Urban Meyer looking to crack the whip, it is highly doubtful that Crowder will return to the Gators in 2005. He plays with a vengeance and shows great urgency in his play. He is quick to fill the rush lanes, but will struggle at times to disengage when he does not use his hands to keep blockers off his chest. In pursuit, he has exceptional acceleration to the ball and an explosive jolt on contact. Crowder displays very good body control on the move and the ability to make open field tackles. He throws his body around recklessly to make the play and shows no fear on the field. In pass coverage, Channing is a little a stiff in his hips, but shows an excellent burst and quickness out of his breaks. He’s a solid deep coverage defender who can easily run with receivers in his zone.

As a blitzer, he explodes coming off the edge and is very disruptive and productive in the opponent’s backfield. Crowder is very active working down the line and moves quickly to get into position to make plays. When he is in motion, it is very difficult for an offensive lineman to block because of his shiftiness. Even when he is blocked, he gets rigid and holds his ground with strength. Channing will generally use his hands effectively to slip away and makes plays through the blocks. You can see the hip stiffness when he misses some tackles, as he sometimes fails to stop his momentum. He is like a safety in pass coverage, as Crowder can easily cover tight ends and running backs to the flats. As far as playing ability goes, Channing is obviously the blue chip of the class, but his injuries and off-field issues will scare off a few teams. If someone can harness that energy and help him mature, he will be very productive at the next level. Still, with his speed and range, I wonder if he might bring better value as a weak-side linebacker than he can in the middle.
Medical
2002-Did not attend school, as he had surgery on both knees after his high school senior season.

Shortly after his 18th birthday on December 2, 2001, he had surgery. There was a second surgery on the left knee in April 2002, to repair problems from another operation his sophomore year in high school. He'd had another surgery in which the ligament of a cadaver was used to replace the other damaged ACL. Two years later, the knee had rejected the transplant. Both knees have been repaired by taking the middle one-third of the patella tendon to replace the ACLs. He worked diligently to get back in shape, but had to sit out the 2002 season -- not enrolling at Florida to save a year of eligibility.

2003-Underwent arthroscopic right knee surgery on October 1, prior to the Mississippi game, and missed that contest. He returned vs. eventual national champion LSU 10 days after surgery to lead the linebacking unit with seven tackles.
2004-Bothered by a groin strain during spring drills…Missed most of the Georgia game and the entire Vanderbilt and South Carolina contests after straining a tendon in his right foot (arch) tackling tailback Danny Ware on a 4-yard run early in the first quarter of the Georgia tilt.
Statistics
Games Played-19
TK SO AS FR FC INT PBU SACK TFL
176 106 70 2 2 1 4 4-28 13.5-44
Compares To
JAMES FARRIOR-Pittsburgh (speed and field smarts are the key ingredients of both Farrior’s and Crowder’s game).
 

jem88

Active Member
Messages
2,698
Reaction score
1
HITBYROY31 said:
JUST HOPE WE DONT FEEL THE WAY WE DID WHEN DWAYNE TRADED OUT OF OUR 1ST PICK LAST YEAR.

REALLY DEPENDS ON WHAT WE GET AT 11
I don't understand this.
 

tyke1doe

Well-Known Member
Messages
53,667
Reaction score
32,042
lzppjb said:
EHH, wrong.

Try watching a few games. Opponents knew exactly what he was about. Last year Reggie McNeal from A&M had the ball in the open field with only DJ to get around. What did he do? He fell down and got in the fetal position. DJ just looked at him, laughed, and walked off. Reggie had already taken a beating from DJ that day. He knew what was coming.

I've watched just about every game in DJ's college career. He makes a big hit in almost every game. From his freshman year in the Holiday Bowl where he hit Washington's QB so hard, he barely got up. To this past year knocking Razorbacks, Owls and who knows what else backwards 3 or 4 yards with a hit. Not to mention leaping over a running back, going at least 3+ yards in the air, and batting down a pass from the QB.


Let's not forget the highlight film he assembled during the Rose Bowl. :rolleyes:

I was looking forward to seeing DJ after the ESPN hype machine portrayed him as a Super Man. He must have been stuck in his mild-mannered Clark Kent disguise because he underwhelmed.

Big-time players show up in big games. Based on the Rose Bowl, DJ isn't a big-time player.
 

Rack

Federal Agent
Messages
23,906
Reaction score
3,106
tyke1doe said:
Big-time players show up in big games. Based on the Rose Bowl, DJ isn't a big-time player.


Dwayne Goodrich showed up for his bowl game during his senior year. Was he a big-time player?

Perfect example of why you draft a player based on what he did during his CAREER, not ONE game.
 
Top