Melton Deal vs Hatcher Deal

[Califan007]

Dude... Hatcher is worth that playing as a 3-tech in this 43 defense.

He is decidedly not when playing as a 34 DE... which he is non-descript as.

I'm surprised that you didn't figure that out.

No, I just have a much better understanding of how the Skins will be playing Hatcher than apparently you do. It's amazingly over-simplistic to claim Hatcher will be little more than a 3-4 DE.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

Melton is a better player for this defense. And if his knee is fine, he is an upgrade over Hatcher.

Lol no way . I know we are all trying to feel a bit better after losing ware and hatch . If you want to fool yourself go ahead . He won't come close to what hatcher did for us last year .

I'm sure that's why Marinelli wanted hatcher signed over anyone else

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

I have little doubt that if money wasn't an issue, Hatcher would still be a Cowboy and Melton would be elsewhere. For better or worse.

Some can fool themselves if they want, but you don't swap a healthy 31 year old coming off his best season for a 27 year old with coming off his worst. Age isn't an issue here.

With Hatcher out of reach, Melton was a consolidation prize. Now we just gotta see what we won.

You hit the nail on the head . Some are still stinging from losing ware and hatch . You can't compare this guy . Torn knee , habitual drunk , unmotivated etc . Good player ? Yes but not in the same league .

 

[AsthmaField]

Lol no way . I know we are all trying to feel a bit better after losing ware and hatch . If you want to fool yourself go ahead . He won't come close to what hatcher did for us last year .

I'm sure that's why Marinelli wanted hatcher signed over anyone else

You can tell me what you think, but you can't tell me what I think. I didn't particularly want us to keep Hatcher. It was the position that he played that allowed him to get so many sacks, IMO.

Melton is a better 3-Tech for this defense IMO and he is 5 years younger.

 

[AsthmaField]

No, I just have a much better understanding of how the Skins will be playing Hatcher than apparently you do. It's amazingly over-simplistic to claim Hatcher will be little more than a 3-4 DE.

LOL, okay. Regale me with stories of him playing DT on passing downs, and generating pressure from DE in the base.

We will see how he does without Marinelli's 3-tech spot, won't we?

Come back after the season and we can talk about it then. I will have no trouble saying you're correct if it is so.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

You can tell me what you think, but you can't tell me what I think. I didn't particularly want us to keep Hatcher. It was the position that he played that allowed him to get so many sacks, IMO.

Melton is a better 3-Tech for this defense IMO and he is 5 years younger.

Thumbs up . I guess we will all be counting on Melton for 12 sacks since it's just the position he will be playing .

 

[speedkilz88]

No, I just have a much better understanding of how the Skins will be playing Hatcher than apparently you do. It's amazingly over-simplistic to claim Hatcher will be little more than a 3-4 DE.

He'll get you 4 - 4.5 sacks as a 3-4 end. Might get lucky like Stephen Bowen and have a 6 sack year -- who you guys also overpaid.

Stephen Bowen
2011 6 sks
2012 1 sks
2013 0 sks

Hatcher
2011 4.5 sks
2012 4 sks
2013 11 sks

 

[gimmesix]

Wow you couldn't be more wrong . Melton's weakness is vs the run . It's noted in recent articles .

I've read that he was the No. 1-rated DT against the run in 2012, so I guess we're reading different articles.

 

[Vintage]

Hatcher was a good player for us as a 3-4 end. And he had an even more dominating season last year as a 3T. No need to deny that. Commanders signed a good player.

 

[Mrdude108]

Here's the way I see it:

Hatcher got paid a lot of money after dominating at the 3T in a 4-3 and now he's moving positions again to be a majorly run stopping DL. They aren't really getting his true value this way. He's also 31 or 32. If he doesn't work out, they have to keep him unless they wanna take cap hits.

Melton got paid minimal money for a one year contract. The Cowboys essentially have his "Byrd rights" so if he balls out and gets back to form all they have to do is keep him, they don't have to go and try to outbid for him or risk losing him because he won't be a FA. Oh and if he does get back to form, you have a dominant 3T in his prime for market value or cheaper and will be thrilled to pay him. If he doesn't pan out, he likely didn't meet incentives which keeps his salary down and Dallas simply need cut him and no harm done.

I like(d) Hatch and I'm glad he got paid, he worked hard for us and did well but we got younger and much more potential with no financial risks. Overpaying old guys is how we got into this mess in the first place.

 

[Doomsday101]

The same people would be raising a crap storm had they paid hatch what the skids gave him.

No doubt about that, I promise many of the same hollering now would be sayign there goes Jerry paying a guy on the downhill side of his career. One thing I notice with some is they will complain no matter what Dallas does. Sign Hatcher it was bad, let Hatcher leave that is bad there is no pleasing some so why bother paying much attention t them.

 

[Doomsday101]

Age doesn't really matter if you are guaranteeing a DT 9 million dollars in 2015. That's a lot of chedda.

and if he plays damn good then pay the man, Dallas is getting him for a steal this season if he proves he is fully recovered and producing then we end up with a pro bowl caliber player. Yes it is a lot of money good players get paid a lot of money. Hatcher is getting paid alot as well but he is getting long in the tooth.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

I like(d) Hatch and I'm glad he got paid, he worked hard for us and did well but we got younger and much more potential with no financial risks. Overpaying old guys is how we got into this mess in the first place.

And there you have it in a nutshell. The Jay Ratliff fiasco is too fresh a memory for Jerry to repeat the mistake, especially for an extremely late bloomer with one good year under his belt,,, and in a contract year no less,,,, the red flags are everywhere.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

No, I just have a much better understanding of how the Skins will be playing Hatcher than apparently you do. It's amazingly over-simplistic to claim Hatcher will be little more than a 3-4 DE.

They will be playing him in the same fashion that Wade and Ryan played him. 1-tech in the 3-4 scheme.

He was a really good 3-4 DE under Ryan. Very underappreciated. But, he's not going to rack up the sacks and pressures in the 3-4 as he would in the 4-3. And at age 32 he wasn't going to get that type of $$$ from anybody in either scheme until the Commanders...our psychotic ex-girlfriend...had to come along and go bonkers and sign him to an outrageous deal. It's not like they've never done this before.




YR

 

[morasp]

Hatcher's age is a real factor. He only missed one game but he couldn't even raise his arm above shoulder height. We'll see how he holds up this year but if we had signed him for big money I would be crossing my fingers that he would stay healthy and not get nicked up and lose his effectiveness like Ware last year.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Hatcher's age is a real factor. He only missed one game but he couldn't even raise his arm above shoulder height. We'll see how he holds up this year but if we had signed him for big money I would be crossing my fingers that he would stay healthy and not get nicked up and lose his effectiveness like Ware last year.

And Hatcher has had issues throughout his career with nagging injuries that reduce his playing time.

 

[Califan007]

They will be playing him in the same fashion that Wade and Ryan played him. 1-tech in the 3-4 scheme.

He was a really good 3-4 DE under Ryan. Very underappreciated. But, he's not going to rack up the sacks and pressures in the 3-4 as he would in the 4-3. And at age 32 he wasn't going to get that type of $$$ from anybody in either scheme until the Commanders...our psychotic ex-girlfriend...had to come along and go bonkers and sign him to an outrageous deal. It's not like they've never done this before

Before I respond, let me ask you: how did Wade use Hatcher in your eyes?

As for the "outrageous deal" the Skins gave Hatcher, I already went over that on the other page lol...it almost exactly matched some of the deals Cowboys fans were saying would be good deals to keep him in Dallas, with other D fans chiming in on how good those proposed deals were to them as well.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

LOL, okay. Regale me with stories of him playing DT on passing downs, and generating pressure from DE in the base.

+1 for the use of the word "regale".

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Brandon Mebane is a 1 tech that got zero sacks last season, Langford got 5 sacks last but prior to that 3 was his top sack year in 2010. (2 in 2012) He's basically Jason Hatcher lite being a former 3-4 end that was moved to the 3 tech. Kyle Williams is a long time Bill and had career high 10.5 sacks, 5.5 the season before. The Cowboys expect a lot more production out of Melton.

Well, you can expect anything but what you get are often two very different things. The most sacks Melton has ever recorded are 7 in 2011. It's possible he might get more this season but coming off injury, I would not expect that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

some would like it until 3 years down the road when it didnt work out then they would scream jj over paid.

Not really. If we had structured the same deal, in year 3, we could simply cut the player with no cap ramifications. The Skins deal is structured so that they can get out of the deal in any year after the 1st year. But why would you, unless he's simply useless and sucking out loud? The salary for year three of the Skins deal with Hatcher is only 3 Million. That's pretty reasonable.