Mincey holding out

[CCBoy]

Cowboys won’t negotiate with Jeremy Mincey, will fine him
Posted by Darin Gantt on July 29, 2015, 4:08 PM EDT
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...cey-will-fine-him/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

AP
If Cowboys defensive end Jeremy Mincey wants a new deal, he’s not going to get it by staying away.

And he’s actually going to lose money if that’s the route he takes.

Via Clarence Hill of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Cowboys executive Stephen Jones said the team will fine Mincey for every day he’s not present, and they won’t negotiate as long as he’s not there.

Teams can fine players $30,000 per day for missing training camp.

Mincey’s scheduled to make $1.5 million in base salary this year, after signing a two-year deal with the Cowboys last offseason.

He has a history of erratic/costly behavior from his time with the Jaguars. They once signed him to a four-year, $20 million contract, but cut him after a series of missed meetings and other issues.

 

[Stash]

For anyone that recognizes there is no specific outcome associated with a "hurry". Could be a throw away, could be an incompletion or a completion, and it could be a pass for a TD. Perhaps the hurry had nothing to do with the defensive player and was only possible because the QB held the ball forever. Big Ben is probably hurried more than any QB in the league so I guess he's playing against amazing DEs every week. Or, maybe he's just big enough and strong enough to hold the ball and break free.

So yeah, you can throw out some of those stories because some of those hurries happened on plays with positive yardage and even scores, and when hurries may not even be a product of anything special the defensive player did on a play.

Can you spot the player who recorded a "hurry" on this play?



Pretty easy to see it, but it didn't matter at all.



Not at all. I certainly think that hits on a QB are important, and I would be inclined to look at hurries provided they only included plays where the QB threw the ball away and maybe when the play resulted in an incompletion. Outside of those two situations, why even mention them at all?

Because they make things tougher on an opposing offense. Because they're important and because they matter.

Haven't oversimplified anything. That's the way it is. He will not make or break the team and the defense will likely not be any worse without him. He's nothing special.

He was "special" enough to lead this pressure-starved team in sacks last year. But now that he's at odds with the team, he's hot garbage. It's a common refrain from the faithful.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Of course I understand rights. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't.

Contractually, rights are defined as something that is granted through a contract. Nowhere in the standard player contract does it say that the player has a right to hold out. It does call such a thing a forfeitable breach, which would fly in the face of it being a right.

The fine is built in and defined to protect the injured party, which in this case would be the team.

A holdout is not a right protected by a contract. A holdout is a choice made by a player, and there are fines associated with that choice. The team also has the right to issue a five day letter (I incorrectly said 15 earlier) to a player holding out that would force them to return to the team, otherwise they would be put on the reserve/did not report list, and would be ineligible to play for the rest of the season. And, they wouldn't be paid.

What Mincey is doing is a choice, not a right.

I mean you're wrong. You have the right to hold out at a collectively bargained rate.

Very definition if a right.

Please consult a dictionary of you're still confused.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

I think it's interesting that this thread has gone as long as it has.

The guy wants more money. Big deal. So he had a good season. Great. How old is he again? Are better days ahead?

If he is smart he will report and HOPE he has a leg to stand on concerning a raise/extended contract. Personally, I think any chance of receiving some love from the Cowboys is practically gone.

 

[Stash]

I liked this quote from Broaddus' recent article on Mincey's absence:

"In my personal observations of Jeremy Mincey from last season, other than Tyrone Crawford there was not a better defensive lineman down the stretch in the fourth quarter of games than him. He went toe-to-toe with some heavyweights and played some of his best football"

For that, I think the guy deserves a reasonable raise and a year added to his deal.

For as critical as I can be when guys like Carr and Claiborne don't earn their money, I think when guys clearly outplay their deals they deserve a raise too.

 

[Plankton]

I mean you're wrong. You have the right to hold out at a collectively bargained rate.

Very definition if a right.

Please consult a dictionary of you're still confused.

Ummmm.....no. That's called a breach of contract. Subject to a fine.

If it were a right, the team couldn't take action.

Sounds like someone needs to consult said dictionary.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

I liked this quote from Broaddus' recent article on Mincey's absence:

"In my personal observations of Jeremy Mincey from last season, other than Tyrone Crawford there was not a better defensive lineman down the stretch in the fourth quarter of games than him. He went toe-to-toe with some heavyweights and played some of his best football"

For that, I think the guy deserves a reasonable raise and a year added to his deal.

For as critical as I can be when guys like Carr and Claiborne don't earn their money, I think when guys clearly outplay their deals they deserve a raise too.

I agree he deserves something but he went about it the wrong way.

When I was in the early stages of beginning my consulting business, I met a stay-home dad who told me how he got that way. He was a successful architect who was disgruntled because the firm he worked for would not acknowledge his value by bumping his pay and offering him security. He told me he walked into his boss's office and, without a word, peed on his desk.

My point: Don't pix away your opportunities.

 

[Stash]

I agree he deserves something but he went about it the wrong way.

When I was in the early stages of beginning my consulting business, I met a stay-home dad who told me how he got that way. He was a successful architect who was disgruntled because the firm he worked for would not acknowledge his value by bumping his pay and offering him security. He told me he walked into his boss's office and, without a word, peed on his desk.

My point: Don't pix away your opportunities.

I won't disagree that I'm not crazy about how he's handling things. I would have hoped that a deal could have been worked before it came to this.

 

[Thefeelofcotton]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the stance Stephen Jones and the FO is taking on the Mincey situation. They have zero incentive to get this deal done. Mincey is the one with everything to lose (monetarily speaking) by holding out. Hell, if I was SJ I'd say, "You want to hold out go ahead, we'll give that Obada guy your snaps."

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Man, big gamble by Mincey. If guys like Gregory, Russell and Gardner tear it up at DE/DT and Hardy's suspension gets further reduced, he may find his roster spot in jeopardy.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

Hopefully he's smart enough to read between the lines. Stephen basically said, "Get yourself into camp and we'll talk about it." Hello? McFly? Get your butt on a plane and into camp.

 

[BlindFaith]

I made my point. Not interested in anything else.

I'll do it for you then.

-----------------------G----Comb-----Total-----Assist------Sacks
Selvie 2013------16-----45--------337-- --------8-----------7.0
Mincey 2014-----16----36----------19----------17----------6.0

After Selvies "break out" year, everyone thought he was our savior. He was a JAG and has been kicked to the curb. But he did put up better numbers than Mincey. I personally think Selvie in 2013 was much better than Mincey last year. And I still thought Selvie sucked.

Mincey is no different. He is JAG. And now he's everyone's savior. He got garbage sacks and was very, very weak against the run. 19 solo tackles? In 16 games? He never commanded a double team. Towards the end of the year Crawford was the only guy teams cared about. They doubled him and shifted protection to him. Leaving Mincey one on one every snap. And those are the numbers he put up? The numbers everyone is raving about? The numbers that warrant a pay raise?

The collective perception of some folks is just downright insane. I get it, your a cowboys fan. Support your guys, whatever. But lets be real here. Mincey isn't even a starting caliber DE. Getting rid of him is one step closer to this defense being legit. The only shoe left is Hayden. When we have purged our defense of the Selvies, Minceys, Haydens, we can start talking top 10. And we are getting close.

 

[CowboyGil]

Hopefully he's smart enough to read between the lines. Stephen basically said, "Get yourself into camp and we'll talk about it." Hello? McFly? Get your butt on a plane and into camp.

This. C'mon Mincey. Don't be artsy craftsy Tony Romo.

 

[Stash]

I'll do it for you then.

-----------------------G----Comb-----Total-----Assist------Sacks
Selvie 2013------16-----45--------337-- --------8-----------7.0
Mincey 2014-----16----36----------19----------17----------6.0

After Selvies "break out" year, everyone thought he was our savior. He was a JAG and has been kicked to the curb. But he did put up better numbers than Mincey. I personally think Selvie in 2013 was much better than Mincey last year. And I still thought Selvie sucked.

From Bryan Broaddus:

"In my personal observations of Jeremy Mincey from last season, other than Tyrone Crawford there was not a better defensive lineman down the stretch in the fourth quarter of games than him. He went toe-to-toe with some heavyweights and played some of his best football"

Mincey is no different. He is JAG. And now he's everyone's savior. He got garbage sacks and was very, very weak against the run. 19 solo tackles? In 16 games? He never commanded a double team. Towards the end of the year Crawford was the only guy teams cared about. They doubled him and shifted protection to him. Leaving Mincey one on one every snap. And those are the numbers he put up? The numbers everyone is raving about? The numbers that warrant a pay raise?

The collective perception of some folks is just downright insane. I get it, your a cowboys fan. Support your guys, whatever. But lets be real here. Mincey isn't even a starting caliber DE. Getting rid of him is one step closer to this defense being legit. The only shoe left is Hayden. When we have purged our defense of the Selvies, Minceys, Haydens, we can start talking top 10. And we are getting close.

Yeah, who needs him anyway! We have Gardner and his 0 games played, or Russell and his 0 games played and Gregory and his 0 games played. And Hardy missing 1/4th of the season. Why should we bring back last year's best pressure player? Let's ship him off to fill the Giants' needs right now!

And please continue the reduction ad absurdum routine of quoting outrageous claims that no one has made. It's a go to tactic when people have a losing argument.

 

[BlindFaith]

From Bryan Broaddus:

"In my personal observations of Jeremy Mincey from last season, other than Tyrone Crawford there was not a better defensive lineman down the stretch in the fourth quarter of games than him. He went toe-to-toe with some heavyweights and played some of his best football"



Yeah, who needs him anyway! We have Gardner and his 0 games played, or Russell and his 0 games played and Gregory and his 0 games played. And Hardy missing 1/4th of the season. Why should we bring back last year's best pressure player? Let's ship him off to fill the Giants' needs right now!

And please continue the reduction ad absurdum routine of quoting outrageous claims that no one has made. It's a go to tactic when people have a losing argument.

So Broaddus is the go to expert now? I forget. Lawrence was far better than Mincey the last quarter of the season. Crawford was head and shoulders better than Mincey.

But to the point, yeah, Mincey was probably our third best DL. But that doesn't make him good. It just means we didn't have jack squat on the DL. We let go our other two starters at DE go. Hayden sucks and is still on this roster for whatever reason. Jack Crawford showed a little something before he got hurt. Melton played well for a couple of games, but then was hurt or whatever. Yes, Mincey was our sack leader, with 6, on the worst pass rushing defense in the league.

And Mincey was soooo good that we proceeded to sign the best DE in free agency. We drafted the best pass rushing DE in the draft. We drafted another DE in the 5th round. With all that added to Lawrence, a second round DE that we traded picks to get, and Gardner who many have said would have been drafted higher if not for the injury he had.

Mincey sees the writing on the wall. All of the above mentioned guys are either light years better than him right now, or have a much higher ceiling than him. If were up to me, he wouldn't even be in the DE discussion. He MAY have some value as a nickel pass rusher inside, but that's it.

He's trying to force his way off the team now so he can have a chance to make a team going into training camp. If he get's cut right before the season starts he'll have a harder time making a team.

And this Giants talk is just silly. I'm sure our offensive line isn't or won't loose any sleep over the thought of having to face Mincey if he's signed by the Giants.

 

[xwalker]

From Bryan Broaddus:

"In my personal observations of Jeremy Mincey from last season, other than Tyrone Crawford there was not a better defensive lineman down the stretch in the fourth quarter of games than him. He went toe-to-toe with some heavyweights and played some of his best football"



Yeah, who needs him anyway! We have Gardner and his 0 games played, or Russell and his 0 games played and Gregory and his 0 games played. And Hardy missing 1/4th of the season. Why should we bring back last year's best pressure player? Let's ship him off to fill the Giants' needs right now!

And please continue the reduction ad absurdum routine of quoting outrageous claims that no one has made. It's a go to tactic when people have a losing argument.

The guy you're arguing with said that Mincey should have been cut in training camp last season. He said at the time and continued to say that Mincey is not a legit NFL player and has no value to a team.

 

[JohnsKey19]

Hardy being able to play at least 12 games allows the Cowboys to play hardball with Mincey. They figure they have enough young guys who can fill in and possibly do well in that spot. If that plan fails, you have arguably the best 4-3 DE in football waiting to return in Week 5.

If not for Hardy, I believe Stephen /Jerry would have thrown Mincy a proverbial bone by now.

 

[Floatyworm]

what sucks for Mincy is he missed out on a $500 thousand bonus by 11 snaps last season.

Think that is a coincidence?

Give him his bonus..........call it even

I don't blame Mincey for being peeved. Teams keep track of snaps and always screw players out of money incentives.

 

[big dog cowboy]

If not for Hardy, I believe Stephen /Jerry would have thrown Mincy a proverbial bone by now.

That is pretty easy to see happening.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I'd let him sit and then get rid of him after you've seen what the young guys do. I definitely wouldn't give him a new deal right now. There is no reason to do so.