Mincey holding out

[Plankton]

What you (still) fail Yo understand about NFL contracts is that holdouts are a negotiated tactic that players have every right to employ.

Just as the team has every right to fine him 30k a day and eventually gonafter some signing bonus money.

You keep saying Mincey should honor his contract. He is. He is exercising a specific right he holds. Who are you to demand he do otherwise?

The world is not black and white as you see it. It is many shades of grey with some color mixed in too.

Holding out is not a right. It's not in the CBA at all as a supported right of a player, or a team wouldn't be able to fine them.

Holding out is a choice. He's exercising free will, but not a right as a player.

And, the Cowboys, if they so chose, could issue a 15 day letter to Mincey, indicating that if he doesn't show up to camp and honor his contract, he will be put on the reserve/did not report list, and will be ineligible to play for the whole season, and not get paid at all.

 

[Alexander]

But if you know Mincey's track record, he only has himself to blame for his contract woes. At one time he had the big contract. He blew it by getting himself released.

He has pretty much blown chances before in both NE and Jacksonville. He shaped up for a year, got voted team captain for some odd reason, performed at a decent, but not outstanding level.

And no, that is not enough to justify a raise.

 

[Alexander]

I wouldn't have wanted to stay in Jacksonville then either. Denver had no money.

He was basically screwing around, missing team meetings, sleeping etc. He was unprofessional.

But hey, it was Jacksonville. It was okay then. Now he is an upright citizen.

He is a goldbricker, plain and simple.

 

[StarBoyz83]

Hopefully they get this solved and he's in camp. If not oh well move on i guess.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He was basically screwing around, missing team meetings, sleeping etc. He was unprofessional.

But hey, it was Jacksonville. It was okay then. Now he is an upright citizen.

He is a goldbricker, plain and simple.

I know the Cowboys have a clean slate policy. Nice to see you're still so tenderhearted though.

 

[JohnsKey19]

Barring a camp injury, Mincey has very little leverage here. Can't really fault him for trying to squeeze every bit of it here, but he likely won't win. Cowboys now have enough guys they like at DE to move forward. Even more so, after Week 4.

 

[Alexander]

I know the Cowboys have a clean slate policy. Nice to see you're still so tenderhearted though.

So clean slate means you can be a screw up, play well in a contract year and that one year is the sole basis of evaluation.

I can say this, in a year, he won't be on this team barring a miracle. Why on earth would it make sense to give him what amounts to an advance for the job he did last year. He was the tallest midget. Nothing more.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So clean slate means you can be a screw up, play well in a contract year and that one year is the sole basis of evaluation.

I can say this, in a year, he won't be on this team barring a miracle. Why on earth would it make sense to give him what amounts to an advance for the job he did last year. He was the tallest midget. Nothing more.

No, it means that they will only judge him on what he does in their program. You can be upset about it but I also know you've heard Garrett talk about it. Teeth gnashing at me isn't going to change it.

 

[Alexander]

No, it means that they will only judge him on what he does in their program. You can be upset about it but I also know you've heard Garrett talk about it. Teeth gnashing at me isn't going to change it.

I don't care what Garrett said. Stephen said it best and I applaud him.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Mincey was our best DE last year - this year he might be the 3rd or 4th best, depending on how D-Law works out.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't care what Garrett said. Stephen said it best and I applaud him.

confirmation bias. nice.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't care what Garrett said. Stephen said it best and I applaud him.

If you're talking about the presser, he said that he wouldn't negotiate with him if he wasn't here because of the leverage. not quite the condemnation you present.

 

[BlindFaith]

No, and I'm certainly not claiming anything like that. But hurries definitely make an offense's job more difficult and result in a higher chance of turnovers. It's an important statistic.

I think Pierre-Paul had double the number of sacks at 12. But for half the number of sacks, Mincey is set to make about 1/10th of what the now damaged JPP still could.

How many times was JPP double teamed? Who else did he have on the defense with him? How many tackles? How many impact plays? How many tackles for loss?

Cherry picking a stat, don't even know where the stat comes from, is a pretty funny way to try and compare two players.

Try comparing Mincey's stats last year to George Selvies the year before. Get back to me.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Holding out is not a right. It's not in the CBA at all as a supported right of a player, or a team wouldn't be able to fine them.

Holding out is a choice. He's exercising free will, but not a right as a player.

And, the Cowboys, if they so chose, could issue a 15 day letter to Mincey, indicating that if he doesn't show up to camp and honor his contract, he will be put on the reserve/did not report list, and will be ineligible to play for the whole season, and not get paid at all.

Do you not understand what a right is? Of course it is Mincey's right to holdout. That doesn't mean your consequences don't have actions.

How much a team can fine a player is specifically negotiated into the CBA. It is Mincey's right to withold his services at the cost of 30 thousand dollars a day.

 

[Corso]

This is such an interesting thread...
I am fascinated by all the debates and the individuals involved over this. Some very good arguments, cases and retorts going on here.

Please carry on gentlemen! And ladies... I, for one am thoroughly enjoying this.

 

[Alexander]

If you're talking about the presser, he said that he wouldn't negotiate with him if he wasn't here because of the leverage. not quite the condemnation you present.

"I think it is (disappointing), he is a player who is under contract and we expect all players under contract to be here. Jeremy obviously did a great job for us last year, he was a big part of the success on the defensive part of the football and we have nothing but respect for him, but he is under contract, I think he signed that contract last year, his representative was there, he was all for it and he signed it.

"It's not a long term contract, it's over at the end of this year, but we fully expect him to be here and if he's not obviously there is recourse for us as well, in terms of there will be fines accordingly if he misses camp. It is disappointing, we expect him to be here and we want him to be here."

He also specifically mentioned a three year outlook, which would be including the young DL.

 

[Stash]

How many times was JPP double teamed? Who else did he have on the defense with him? How many tackles? How many impact plays? How many tackles for loss?

Cherry picking a stat, don't even know where the stat comes from, is a pretty funny way to try and compare two players.

I'm not "cherry picking" anything. I pointed out a productivity stat. But I get it, Mincey is currently at odds with the team so now he's terrible.

Try comparing Mincey's stats last year to George Selvies the year before. Get back to me.

I made my point. Not interested in anything else.

 

[Bullflop]

Well of course there are assumptions. If we had a statement from the player there would be no discussion about the motives. The man can choose to do whatever he wants to do. If he feels holding out while negotiating for a new deal is the best approach, so be it. But what happens if Dallas refuses to redo his deal? Is he not going to play? He's not getting a long term deal so it's really a play for a quick 2 million dollar bump based on last years play and perceived value. I just don't know that you need to hold out to have that negotiation and doing so may actually work against him in this case if the Cowboys deem the other players as viable replacements, based on their camp performances, for a player who they don't want to extend past this year anyway.

What makes you think his intentions are a bump of 2 mil? Like you said, he mentioned nothing as to what or how much he wants. It's entirely possible that he would settle for merely incentives if it came down to being cut or simply settling for that. Whether he's doing what he needs to do or not remains to be seen, although I don't think the organization is likely to be overly generous to the tune of a 2 million dollar bump in pay. If that's his stance, he'll quite likely be jettisoned out of town. At his age, it would surely seem he'd best take whatever he can get.

 

[guag]

I'm all for retaining Mincey past this season, but it depends on the details of what he's looking for. I'd imagine that he's not exactly looking to give the Cowboys a bargain considering that the team has had 5 months to ponder this and they haven't agreed to anything. Though maybe the Cowboys wanted to wait until training camp to see if Mincey actually follows through with a hold out.

 

[mugsybows]

Stephen Jones didnt sound pleased that Mincey is not at camp. if im Mincey i get my *** to camp and then try to work something out.