Mistake re-signing Tyrone Crawford?

[Nightman]

And you're trying to put free agents and a guy who would be cut on a level playing field as well, more flawed thinking. Seldom, if ever does a player get released and go to another team making equal or greater money. If they were worth it, the team that released them would have kept them.

You think Malik Jackson was worth 86m or Fletcher Cox 102m or Suh 114m

Harrison got 46m and no one ever heard of him outside the NFC East

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

He's missed 19 games in a 5-year career. And you want to point to "last year"? He's had an Achilles surgery and not one, but two shoulder surgeries, in back to back seasons.



19 games over 5 years, if not injuries, what did?



His "market" isn't the same as other, healthier players. Players not coming off of yet another significant surgery. Players with clearly defined roles.

And you're trying to put free agents and a guy who would be cut on a level playing field as well, more flawed thinking. Seldom, if ever does a player get released and go to another team making equal or greater money. If they were worth it, the team that released them would have kept them.

You don't want to acknowledge these significant factors.

I think you have some legitimate gripes about the guy, although I think you underrate his ability some. But that's fine, people can disagree.

What I think you misjudge is the market. Remember when Dallas gave Marco Rivera $4 million/year in 2005? That was the going rate for a mediocre guard 12 years ago. Defensive linemen are higher on the FA pecking order than guards in most cases. Seeing that, it's 12 years later and the cap has gone from $85.5 million in 2005 to between $166-$170 million in 2017. That's basically doubled. It's not a stretch for a decent, maybe even mediocre (not my term for him, but I can see the logic in the argument) DT with versatility to play DE to get $7 million-$8 million/year. Now, Crawford's avg annual is $9 million, so he should be a good DT. If he were great, he would be worth $12 million-$15 million. That's why my argument is he may be a smidge overpaid, but it's not a travesty. It's not even the worst contract on the team. I think Scandrick has been a bigger misfire (he was essentially our fourth best CB last year, when he was actually healthy). James Hanna and Alfred Morris (since they never use him) are worse contracts right now. Of course Tony's contract is easily the worst given his missed time and the fact he is no longer the starting QB.

 

[Stash]

You think Malik Jackson was worth 86m or Fletcher Cox 102m or Suh 114m

Harrison got 46m and no one ever heard of him outside the NFC East

No. I'm not arguing for any of those deals, but they don't make Crawford's look any better either.

But even at those high rates, they all have clearly defined roles, awards and considerations as the best in their jobs, and a good track record of health. Crawford does not.

 

[Stash]

I think you have some legitimate gripes about the guy, although I think you underrate his ability some. But that's fine, people can disagree.

I'm glad that you seem to respect a difference of opinion.

What I think you misjudge is the market. Remember when Dallas gave Marco Rivera $4 million/year in 2005? That was the going rate for a mediocre guard 12 years ago. Defensive linemen are higher on the FA pecking order than guards in most cases. Seeing that, it's 12 years later and the cap has gone from $85.5 million in 2005 to between $166-$170 million in 2017. That's basically doubled. It's not a stretch for a decent, maybe even mediocre (not my term for him, but I can see the logic in the argument) DT with versatility to play DE to get $7 million-$8 million/year. Now, Crawford's avg annual is $9 million, so he should be a good DT. If he were great, he would be worth $12 million-$15 million. That's why my argument is he may be a smidge overpaid, but it's not a travesty. It's not even the worst contract on the team. I think Scandrick has been a bigger misfire (he was essentially our fourth best CB last year, when he was actually healthy). James Hanna and Alfred Morris (since they never use him) are worse contracts right now. Of course Tony's contract is easily the worst given his missed time and the fact he is no longer the starting QB.

Yet another difference of opinion.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

I'm glad that you seem to respect a difference of opinion.



Yet another difference of opinion.

Ok, I'll stop being cordial. Wouldn't want to break board protocol.

 

[Stash]

Ok, I'll stop being cordial. Wouldn't want to break board protocol.

No, please keep it up. It's always appreciated.

 

[LatinMind]

His production is representative of a UDFA, not someone making $9M/year...

Next year will be his 6th season in the NFL. Over his first 5 years he has averaged:

• 2.5 sacks per season
• 15 tackles per season
• 0.2 forced fumbles per season (exactly 1 in his entire career!)
• 0.4 fumble recoveries per season (exactly 2 in his entire career)

Even if you adjust for his missing season, he's averaged just over 1 tackle per game in his career.

if ur going to state something atleast be accurate. take out 2013 because he never played that yr.

per yr avg
28 tackles
3 sacks
per yr. He's not going to be amongst league leaders because if you follow the team, you know they play a ROTATION. And while he plays the a big part of snaps over the course of the yr snaps on the sidelines add up. Crawford like Lee when healthy and the team not being forced to switch him everywhere is very effective.

If ur going to take his tackles that are combined do it to everybody. Lee instead of 145 tackles he would have 93

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He's missed 19 games in a 5-year career. And you want to point to "last year"? He's had an Achilles surgery and not one, but two shoulder surgeries, in back to back seasons.



19 games over 5 years, if not injuries, what did?



His "market" isn't the same as other, healthier players. Players not coming off of yet another significant surgery. Players with clearly defined roles.

And you're trying to put free agents and a guy who would be cut on a level playing field as well, more flawed thinking. Seldom, if ever does a player get released and go to another team making equal or greater money. If they were worth it, the team that released them would have kept them.

You don't want to acknowledge these significant factors.

He was injured his rookie year and has not really missed time since. You know this but are being obstinate. The shoulders have not caused him to miss time.

 

[Stash]

He was injured his rookie year and has not really missed time since. You know this but are being obstinate.

No more obstinate than the person who tried to pretend it didn't happen.

The shoulders have not caused him to miss time.

It did this year. And neither surgery helps to improve his value. The issues obviously aren't getting better.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No more obstinate than the person who tried to pretend it didn't happen.



It did this year. And neither surgery helps to improve his value. The issues obviously aren't getting better.

An achilles injury from 5 years ago is not indicative of anything. Recent history is what matters.

He was rested at the end of the year. He could have played. You have no idea of his medical prognosis.

 

[Playmaker247]

Crawford probably doesn't start on any team in the league. End of discussion. Bad contract. Time to move on.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Crawford probably doesn't start on any team in the league. End of discussion. Bad contract. Time to move on.

That may be the end of the discussion for you but you cannot even name all DL starters for all 32 teams much less have an informed opinion on their ability so the rest of us will continue to discuss.

 

[Nightman]

Crawford probably doesn't start on any team in the league. End of discussion. Bad contract. Time to move on.

New contender for least informed post of the day

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

New contender for least informed post of the day

People act like the NFL is just overflowing with line talent.

Crawford had an above average year for a SDE in both his rush and run stopping. It was his first year at the position. Yet reading people here you would think that he never got pressure and was Nick Hayden against the run.

 

[Idgit]

Crawford probably doesn't start on any team in the league. End of discussion. Bad contract. Time to move on.

Yeah, this is just wrong.

 

[Stash]

An achilles injury from 5 years ago is not indicative of anything. Recent history is what matters.

Seriously? And you accuse me of being emotional about the subject..

He was rested at the end of the year. He could have played. You have no idea of his medical prognosis.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/26/report-tyrone-crawford-undergoes-shoulder-surgery/

Be sure to tell everyone else they're wrong too.

But yeah, I'm the guy acting emotionally.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Seriously? And you accuse me of being emotional about the subject..



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/26/report-tyrone-crawford-undergoes-shoulder-surgery/

Be sure to tell everyone else they're wrong too.

But yeah, I'm the guy acting emotionally.

How did you get emotional out of that?

Guy has not had a leg injury in 5 years. It is what it is. If you want to present evidence that it is degenerative or the like then have at it but I am not going to hold my breath.

Prognosis means what his outlook is moving forward. It was not the same shoulder. You have no idea the exact nature of the injury. You are just assuming what is your preferred outcome: that he is an injury risk but again you don't know what his prognosis is and cannot even make an educated guess with the dearth of information.

 

[jwitten82]

He was injured his rookie year and has not really missed time since. You know this but are being obstinate. The shoulders have not caused him to miss time.

Theyve not caused him to miss time, but they cause him to be damn near ineffective

 

[Stash]

How did you get emotional out of that?

A guy covering his eyes to a lengthy history of injury sure isn't being rational or logical.

Guy has not had a leg injury in 5 years. It is what it is. If you want to present evidence that it is degenerative or the like then have at it but I am not going to hold my breath.

I don't need to do anything. The only eyes you can blind to his lengthy injury history are your own.

Prognosis means what his outlook is moving forward. It was not the same shoulder. You have no idea the exact nature of the injury. You are just assuming what is your preferred outcome: that he is an injury risk but again you don't know what his prognosis is and cannot even make an educated guess with the dearth of information.

Yeah, I'm the guy assuming.

 

[Stash]

Theyve not caused him to miss time, but they cause him to be damn near ineffective

So those couple games this year was simply a vacation then?

Overpaid and underworked.