MJ vs Elvis Who will be remember as the biggest icon?

[ethiostar]

then I'm just going to deduce that you're a liar

:laugh2:

Yes Bob, i have an attention span of a 2 yr old and i'm a liar. You're on to me.

 

[WoodysGirl]

This has nothing to do with the fact that those types of music existed or not. It has everything to do with how, why and who brought them into mainstream music. I mean, all of those music types had great artist who played great music but which of them can say that they enjoyed the kind of success with main stream America those who came after Elvis did? It's not about who created what. Elvis didn't create Rock and Roll either. He simply created the environment that allowed for wide spread acceptance of all of these forms of music. Early Rock and Roll was a mixture of Gospel, Jazz, Country, Blues, R&B and Folk. To view it as seperate is not really accurate IMO.

If you accept that Rap, Hip-Hop, whatever else has it's roots in these earlier forms of music, and they do, then you have to credit Elvis with the succesful marketing of them as well. Nothing in music, outside of technology improvements, are original. All of it has been done long before America was ever born.

I believe I've given credit for Elvis for his impact on bringing different genres to the mainstream.

But I do view the music from back then as separate genres, because they're still separate genres to this day. There was some cross-over, but overall they didn't mix. Elvis brought it altogether and gained widespread popularity over it.

I'd be really interested in how Elvis impacted rap and hip-hop? What song can you point to where someone could say, I could see how that might have influenced the rap/hip-hop communtiy?

The reason why I ask is because I can't think of any hip-hop song from the early 70s until now that would sound like it was influenced by music from Elvis.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm not believing this

If someone played a Beatles song, I would recognize the voice but nothing more. If someone played a Elvis song, I would recognize his voice but nothing more. It is called listening to a sample of a song. No I wouldn't be tuning into radio station that plays that type of music. But if one you beloved Elvis fans played a song of his or the Beatles, I would know who it is but no more then that. I wouldn't know the song, lyrics, hook line or whatever. Just who sings the song and that is it.

:laugh2: so you're the only person on the history of the planet who can immediately recognize an uknown, to you, band, and point to who the artist is?

no, someone told you who it was, and probably let you in on what song it was

liar

 

[ethiostar]

:laugh2: so you're the only person on the history of the planet who can immediately recognize an uknown, to you, band, and point to who the artist is?

no, someone told you who it was, and probably let you in on what song it was

liar

:rake:

:shoot6:

 

[Avaj]

:laugh2: so you're the only person on the history of the planet who can immediately recognize an uknown, to you, band, and point to who the artist is?

no, someone told you who it was, and probably let you in on what song it was

liar

I'm liar, well you know what God knows the truth and that is all I have to answer to anyway, not you.

I bet there is MJ's song you know it is him singing but don't know the title of the song. So now your going to tell me you know EVERY SINGLE song MJ has done.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm liar, well you know what God knows the truth and that is all I have to answer to anyway, not you.

I bet there is MJ's song you know it is him singing but don't know the title of the song. So now your going to tell me you know EVERY SINGLE song MJ has done.

you Jackson fans are just as loony was he was

I can name at least one song of his though

and I could listen to the song he played in "Free Willy" and not know the title of it too, which I don't

 

[Avaj]

you Jackson fans are just as loony was he was

but no, I can name at least one song of his though

and I could listen to the song he played in "Free Willy" and not know the title of it too, which I don't

Oh so you can hear songs and not know the title, but we are nuts and crazy if we hear songs by Elvis and the Bealtes and not know the title.

 

[bbgun]

the Holley's performed in front of the Apollo,

Which has nothing to do with anything.

your point is moot anyways, as an example was posted in this very thread by a black musician, that Elvis transcended racial lines

One person is a representative sample? Hi-larious. :laugh2:

For the record, I never said Elvis didn't transcend race; I said he lagged behind MJ in that category. Empirical evidence alone (concert footage) tells me that I'm on to something. Elvis may have appropriated many "stylistic" features endemic to black culture/performers, but there's scant evidence that black audiences--in sizable numbers--reciprocated the love.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Oh so you can hear a songs and not know the title, but we are nuts and crazy if we hear songs by Elvis and the Bealtes and not know the title.

I can do both, recognize a song as his that comes on the radio or TV, and name a song right off the bat as belonging to him

because I was introduced to a song of his, got the name of the singer, and the name of the song that was being played at that time

plus the fact that he's pop culture, much like...da-DUM Elvis is

it was a bunch of contributing factors, factors open to anyone who has a clue

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I believe I've given credit for Elvis for his impact on bringing different genres to the mainstream.

But I do view the music from back then as separate genres, because they're still separate genres to this day. There was some cross-over, but overall they didn't mix. Elvis brought it altogether and gained widespread popularity over it.

I'd be really interested in how Elvis impacted rap and hip-hop? What song can you point to where someone could say, I could see how that might have influenced the rap/hip-hop communtiy?

The reason why I ask is because I can't think of any hip-hop song from the early 70s until now that would sound like it was influenced by music from Elvis.

Well, I guess I don't know any other way of explaining it. I mean, this is not really about generos of music. It goes beyond that.

Elvis impacted Hip-Hop and Rap because he impacted Jazz, Blues, R&B, Soul you name it. Hip-Hop and Rap came from those roots. I guess you could say that Hip-Hop and Rap would have came to be without Elvis but I ask you, would they enjoy the financial success they do now if Elvis had not brought the root music into a theater that allowed for this and the other forms of music mentioned to enjoy such financial success? It all goes back to money and money is about audiance. You have to give him credit for this because he changed this for all these generos of music.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Which has nothing to do with anything.



One person is a representative sample? Hi-larious. :laugh2:

For the record, I never said Elvis didn't transcend race; I said he lagged behind MJ in that category. Empirical evidence alone (concert footage) tells me that I'm on to something. Elvis may have appropriated many "stylistic" features endemic to black culture/performers, but there's scant evidence that black audiences--in sizable numbers--reciprocated the love.

it's easy to say that MJ transcended race more than Elvis, when Elvis opened that possibility up long before Michael came onto the scene

you can't use a factor someone greatly contributed to, against them, that's absurd

 

[WoodysGirl]

Well, I guess I don't know any other way of explaining it. I mean, this is not really about generos of music. It goes beyond that.

Elvis impacted Hip-Hop and Rap because he impacted Jazz, Blues, R&B, Soul you name it. Hip-Hop and Rap came from those roots. I guess you could say that Hip-Hop and Rap would have came to be without Elvis but I ask you, would they enjoy the financial success they do now if Elvis had not brought the root music into a theater that allowed for this and the other forms of music mentioned to enjoy such financial success? It all goes back to money and money is about audiance. You have to give him credit for this because he changed this for all these generos of music.

Sorry, the origins of rap and hip-hop did not evolve from anything Elvis-related. Not one single rap song that came out of the 70s resonates with anything related to Elvis. I just can't agree to that.

The evolution of rap/hip-hop into a more mainstream product began in the 80s Run DMC...to which some of their music was influenced by rock and roll. But overall rap and hip-hop has been based primarily on R&B, soul, and jazz.

The difference is you seem to think Elvis impacted the stylings of those genres. I think he impacted the audience of those genres.

I give Elvis some credit for opening up the pathways to financial success through his music. Not many artists from his era were able to enjoy the same amount of success.

 

[Yeagermeister]

Sorry, the origins of rap and hip-hop did not evolve from anything Elvis-related. Not one single rap song that came out of the 70s resonates with anything related to Elvis. I just can't agree to that.

The evolution of rap/hip-hop into a more mainstream product began in the 80s Run DMC...to which some of their music was influenced by rock and roll. But overall rap and hip-hop has been based primarily on R&B, soul, and jazz.

The difference is you seem to think Elvis impacted the stylings of those genres. I think he impacted the audience of those genres.

I give Elvis some credit for opening up the pathways to financial success through his music. Not many artists from his era were able to enjoy the same amount of success.

The only rap song that I know that even mentions Elvis is Public Enemy's Fight the Power and it's not a good reference. :laugh2:

 

[WoodysGirl]

The only rap song that I know that even mentions Elvis is Public Enemy's Fight the Power and it's not a good reference. :laugh2:

That's kinda my point. Of all the genres Elvis could have impacted, I just don't believe rap or hip-hop is one of them.

It's a rare feat indeed if he's mentioned.

 

[Avaj]

Sorry, the origins of rap and hip-hop did not evolve from anything Elvis-related. Not one single rap song that came out of the 70s resonates with anything related to Elvis. I just can't agree to that.

The evolution of rap/hip-hop into a more mainstream product began in the 80s Run DMC...to which some of their music was influenced by rock and roll. But overall rap and hip-hop has been based primarily on R&B, soul, and jazz.

The difference is you seem to think Elvis impacted the stylings of those genres. I think he impacted the audience of those genres.

I give Elvis some credit for opening up the pathways to financial success through his music. Not many artists from his era were able to enjoy the same amount of success.

Thanks WG, nicely put.

I believe the first rap song was Rapper's Delight by the Sugar Hill Gang. I don't think they were influenced by Elvis.

 

[tomson75]

This?

http://www.nthposition.com/1968theyearthatrocked.php

Im going to read it when I get back from lunch.

That wasn't what I was referring to, but that looks interesting as well. The Time issue I'm talking about is in print, and was from last year. It should be online somewhere...but as I'm using my phone, I don't have the patience to searchbfor it until I get home.

 

[tomson75]

a lot of people are confusing Elvis' early work with what he did in the 70's. His early stuff borrowed very heavily from black genres, and in return influenced later genres that influenced hip hop. He without a doubt had a strong, albeit indirect influence on rap. I've never heard of a music historian, white or black, challenge this notion.

 

[gambit187]

ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE

Elvis music, moves and swagger came from African Americans. Elvis was only hot because of that. Shoot he was hot because he grew up around black folk.....ie Justin Timberlake and Eminem. Lets not lie or fool ourselves or keep denying the truth.

Michael crossed all barriers and races, and did it way longer then Elvis
R&B, Rap and Rockers in this generation,past generations and future generations love Michael....ask Alien Ant Farm, ask Travis Barker, ask Fallout Boy. People all over the world in every walks of life and in ever culture LOVE MICHAEL JACKSON......

Elvis could never sell out stadiums across the world in the most remote countries the way Michael did it. KEEP IT REAL

Mike as a child could and would sing and dance circles around Elvis at his prime. Elvis was simply something that people were not used to....kind of like Larry Bird.

RIP THE KING MICHAEL JACKSON

 

[ethiostar]

ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE

Elvis music, moves and swagger came from African Americans. Elvis was only hot because of that. Shoot he was hot because he grew up around black folk.....ie Justin Timberlake and Eminem. Lets not lie or fool ourselves or keep denying the truth.

Michael crossed all barriers and races, and did it way longer then Elvis
R&B, Rap and Rockers in this generation,past generations and future generations love Michael....ask Alien Ant Farm, ask Travis Barker, ask Fallout Boy. People all over the world in every walks of life and in ever culture LOVE MICHAEL JACKSON......

Elvis could never sell out stadiums across the world in the most remote countries the way Michael did it. KEEP IT REAL

Mike as a child could and would sing and dance circles around Elvis at his prime. Elvis was simply something that people were not used to....kind of like Larry Bird.

RIP THE KING MICHAEL JACKSON

 

[Avaj]

You beat me to the popcorn :laugh2: