MJ vs Elvis Who will be remember as the biggest icon?

[WoodysGirl]

I don't even like popcorn, but for this I would sure eat some.

 

[bbgun]

it's easy to say that MJ transcended race more than Elvis, when Elvis opened that possibility up long before Michael came onto the scene

He did?? How? You think all those white kids who packed his concerts in the early 80s were out-and-proud Elvis fans? Far more white teens were dancing to Chubby Checker's "Twist" than black teens were to "Hound Dog."

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

it's easy to say that MJ transcended race more than Elvis, when Elvis opened that possibility up long before Michael came onto the scene

I will say this about Michael, he was pretty influential in the area of Air Time for Minority Video Play. Many may not realize this but when he release Thriller, MTV did not play black artists. MJs videos were actually played on Friday Night Videos as opposed to MTV at that time. Thanks to artists like Elton John, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, The Boss, Rod Stewart and others. These artists told MTV that if they were not going to play MJs music, then they should not bother playing there videos. Michael, in turn, advised MTV that if they wanted to play his videos, they had to play other Black Artists.

That was huge.

 

[ethiostar]

You beat me to the popcorn :laugh2:

I don't even like popcorn, but for this I would sure eat some.

This is turning to be one of those legendary threads, or should i say iconic. Silly, but entertaining nonetheless.

 

[ethiostar]

I will say this about Michael, he was pretty influential in the area of Air Time for Minority Video Play. Many may not realize this but when he release Thriller, MTV did not play black artists. MJs videos were actually played on Friday Night Videos as opposed to MTV at that time. Thanks to artists like Elton John, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, The Boss, Rod Stewart and others. These artists told MTV that if they were not going to play MJs music, then they should not bother playing there videos. Michael, in turn, advised MTV that if they wanted to play his videos, they had to play other Black Artists.

That was huge.

I said this earlier but not as eloquently as you just did. Thank you.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry, the origins of rap and hip-hop did not evolve from anything Elvis-related. Not one single rap song that came out of the 70s resonates with anything related to Elvis. I just can't agree to that.

The evolution of rap/hip-hop into a more mainstream product began in the 80s Run DMC...to which some of their music was influenced by rock and roll. But overall rap and hip-hop has been based primarily on R&B, soul, and jazz.

The difference is you seem to think Elvis impacted the stylings of those genres. I think he impacted the audience of those genres.

I give Elvis some credit for opening up the pathways to financial success through his music. Not many artists from his era were able to enjoy the same amount of success.

The difference here is that you are not understanding anything I'm saying. I specifically said it was not the music. It was the avenue to take the music to audiance. It was the money.

It's fine. It is only my opinion.

 

[Phrozen Phil]

I will say this about Michael, he was pretty influential in the area of Air Time for Minority Video Play. Many may not realize this but when he release Thriller, MTV did not play black artists. MJs videos were actually played on Friday Night Videos as opposed to MTV at that time. Thanks to artists like Elton John, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, The Boss, Rod Stewart and others. These artists told MTV that if they were not going to play MJs music, then they should not bother playing there videos. Michael, in turn, advised MTV that if they wanted to play his videos, they had to play other Black Artists.

That was huge.

Interesting. I have always viewed each of these figures as Iconic figures in their own eras. Be it Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, the Beatles or Michael Jackson, their impact on culture is undeniable. I choose not to rank them, but to acknowledge them in the time and context that they lived and created in. Some will live on longer than others. Rudolph Valentino was considered much in the same light until his death. His contributions were very much contained in his era. Will the others noted here still be considered as serioulsy 50 years for know? Hard to know. It is interesting that some of the Classical composers (Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Vivaldi, etc) still command a certain level of respect to this day.

 

[Avaj]

Interesting. I have always viewed each of these figures as Iconic figures in their own eras. Be it Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, the Beatles or Michael Jackson, their impact on culture is undeniable. I choos not to rank them, but to acknowledge them in the time and context that they lived and created in. Some will live on longer than others. Rudolph Valentino was considered much in the same light until his death. His contributions were very much contained in his era. Will the others noted here still be considered as serioulsy 50 years for know? Hard to know. It is interesting that some of the Classical composers (Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Vivaldi, etc) still command a certain level of respect to this day.

I forgot about Frank Sinatra...huge fan and his influence.

 

[WoodysGirl]

The difference here is that you are not understanding anything I'm saying. I specifically said it was not the music. It was the avenue to take the music to audiance. It was the money.

It's fine. It is only my opinion.

I understand what you're saying. I disagree with certain points of what you're saying.

We all have opinions. That's why we're on here, right?

 

[Maikeru-sama]

No, not really. That really didn't happen until the 60s. In fact, I'd say that Rock and Roll influenced that a great deal. It was a commonality that younger people could look to and see that black and white might not be as different as earlier generations thought. It's a pretty important step IMO but I don't believe that you can say it existed in the 50s. I assume this is what you were trying to say. If I am mistaken, I'm sorry.

Actually, something bigger happened in the 50s.

link

I see what you were saying, I am just pointing out that Black Entertainers faced quite a few barriers back in those days. So I don't think one can make a strong argument that just because there were no big R&B and Hip Hop acts before Elvis Pressley, that this means there was noone with similar talent.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I said this earlier but not as eloquently as you just did. Thank you.

+1

QFT

 

[Maikeru-sama]

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Interesting. I have always viewed each of these figures as Iconic figures in their own eras. Be it Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, the Beatles or Michael Jackson, their impact on culture is undeniable. I choos not to rank them, but to acknowledge them in the time and context that they lived and created in. Some will live on longer than others. Rudolph Valentino was considered much in the same light until his death. His contributions were very much contained in his era. Will the others noted here still be considered as serioulsy 50 years for know? Hard to know. It is interesting that some of the Classical composers (Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Vivaldi, etc) still command a certain level of respect to this day.

I briefly mentioned this earlier in this thread but to back track just a bit, nothing in music is original anymore. Everything has been done before. Rap, Hip-Hop, you name it. At some point in time, it has all been done before. Technology in instrumentation changes but not really the actual music IMO. Try to say that this person is responsible for this kind of music or that kind is silly to me. The biggest change in music since the invention of Radio is the marketing of it IMO. This changed music and society forever. When the ability to make vast amounts of money entered music, it completely changed the landscape. Hip-Hop and Rap, for that matter, would never be such a big part of the music landscape had this not occured. This can be said for many types of music BTW. The music industry invests in different types of music because they can make money off of it. If it was strickly segmented to certain ethnic types, it would not have received as much support/playtime as it has IMO.

To me, this is the real key in music over the last however many years. Video is just a product of the marketing efforts.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Actually, something bigger happened in the 50s.

link

I see what you were saying, I am just pointing out that Black Entertainers faced quite a few barriers back in those days. So I don't think one can make a strong argument that just because there were no big R&B and Hip Hop acts before Elvis Pressley, that this means there was noone with similar talent.

Well, that's good because this is not something I have said and it is not anything I would ever support.

My personal favorite is not Elvis, from that time period. My favorite, and I have his CDs in my Truck always, was Sam Cooke. I love his stuff. It might surprise to know that right this minute, I have Michael Jackson, Elvis, Sinatra and the Beetles in my truck right now. I like them all but I like Sam Cooke more then any of them.

To me, it's not about who was more talented. I've already said that I thought Jackson was more talented. It's about who really started it all. That's why I give it to Elvis. Your correct, there were great performers other then Elvis. Chuck Berry was terrific but Elvis opened the way because he was unique. He was white but had the ability to walk in both worlds. He brought something across the barrier that grew. Only he, or somebody like him, could do it. Of course, I don't believe that the world has ever seen another like him so you can make case that only Elvis could have done it, I don't know.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Actually, something bigger happened in the 50s.

link

I see what you were saying, I am just pointing out that Black Entertainers faced quite a few barriers back in those days. So I don't think one can make a strong argument that just because there were no big R&B and Hip Hop acts before Elvis Pressley, that this means there was noone with similar talent.

OK. I can see why you would say what you did. To me, Civil Rights didn't get wide spread support by White America until the 60s but it is a fair statement to say that Civil Rights also played a role.

The difference to me was the fact that early Civil Rights efforts were hard fought and not widely accepted in many cases. Music was something that took hold with the younger White Americans of the period and found acceptance with not much resistance. A more peaceful path to success for that certain segment of Americans. Now the older ones, not so much. That's true.

 

[ZB9]

It's about who really started it all. That's why I give it to Elvis. Your correct, there were great performers other then Elvis. Chuck Berry was terrific but Elvis opened the way because he was unique. He was white but had the ability to walk in both worlds. He brought something across the barrier that grew. Only he, or somebody like him, could do it. Of course, I don't believe that the world has ever seen another like him so you can make case that only Elvis could have done it, I don't know.

very good points imo

 

[ethiostar]

Well, that's good because this is not something I have said and it is not anything I would ever support.

My personal favorite is not Elvis, from that time period. My favorite, and I have his CDs in my Truck always, was Sam Cooke. I love his stuff. It might surprise to know that right this minute, I have Michael Jackson, Elvis, Sinatra and the Beetles in my truck right now. I like them all but I like Sam Cooke more then any of them.

To me, it's not about who was more talented. I've already said that I thought Jackson was more talented. It's about who really started it all. That's why I give it to Elvis. Your correct, there were great performers other then Elvis. Chuck Berry was terrific but Elvis opened the way because he was unique. He was white but had the ability to walk in both worlds. He brought something across the barrier that grew. Only he, or somebody like him, could do it. Of course, I don't believe that the world has ever seen another like him so you can make case that only Elvis could have done it, I don't know.

Who ever said Elvis is the best Gospel singer ever earlier hasn't heard of Sam Cooke and the Soul Stirrers.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I understand what you're saying. I disagree with certain points of what you're saying.

We all have opinions. That's why we're on here, right?

Absolutely WG.

 

[ethiostar]

+1

QFT

Any news on Senegalese jeri curls?

 

[MrMom]

a lot of people are confusing Elvis' early work with what he did in the 70's. His early stuff borrowed very heavily from black genres, and in return influenced later genres that influenced hip hop. He without a doubt had a strong, albeit indirect influence on rap. I've never heard of a music historian, white or black, challenge this notion.

:laugh2:

It's a funny notion that someone would have a conversation with a music historian about Elvis' influence on rap and that you make it seem like you've heard or been apart of this conversation multiple times. It's even funnier that you use this to support your stance.