MLB playoffs 2017

Trouty

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Well the stats do not support that POV but hey to each his own.

That's why we follow sports.
That Ruth is better than Cobb? The stats certainly support it depending on what metric you go on.

By many circles, including the BBWAA, Cobb is the greatest ever.

He once said the long ball is for lazy folks, hit four home runs in three games to show the crowds, then went on to batting his almost-usual .400
 

MichaelWinicki

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That Ruth is better than Cobb? The stats certainly support it depending on what metric you go on.

By many circles, including the BBWAA, Cobb is the greatest ever.

He once said the long ball is for lazy folks, hit four home runs in three games to show the crowds, then went on to batting his almost-usual .400

Ruth tops Cobb in a number of important categories outside of simply HR's such as OPB and WAR.
 

MichaelWinicki

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This is Bill James' list of greatest players of all-time using his win-shares statistic:

1. Babe Ruth- With 758 Win Shares, Ruth comes out as the best ever.

2. Ted Williams- Williams had 558 actual win shares. Extrapolating for the years he missed he ends up with 728 projected win shares. Of all the players on the list, Williams is by far the most affected by the extrapolation technique, ending up with an additional 170 win shares. How I arrived at this figure must therefore be explained. Williams missed three years due to World War Two, 1943-45. His win shares for the two years before were 42 and 46. For the two years after, 50 and 44. I assigned Williams 40 for each year for a total of 120. This is clearly a low figure, based on his performance both before and after. Williams also missed most of 1952 and 53 due to the Korean War. He had 34 win shares in 1951 and 29 in 1954. I assigned him 29 win shares on top of the one he had in 1952, and 20 on top of the 10 in 1953. None of these estimates seems improbable to me. In fact, they seem quite likely. Adding it all up, he is second only to Ruth.

3. Ty Cobb/Willie Mays- Cobb had 726 total win shares and Mays had 642 total win shares, but missed most of 1952 and all of 1953 in the service. In 1951, his first year he had 19 win shares, and upon returning had 40 in both 1954 and '55. Assigning Mays shares of 30 and 35 for the years he missed seems reasonable, bringing his total to 701. Mays finished 25 shares behind Cobb, and adjusting for the time line, these two seem about even, leaving open the question about who was the greatest all-around player ever

5. Hank Aaron- Aaron had 643 win shares, and did not miss any time. He made the most of his career, and is the all-time leader in Total Bases, Home Runs, and Runs Batted In.

6. Honus Wagner- The Dutchman finished with 655 total win shares, but the time line favors Aaron. James rates him higher than Cobb because his peak years were better, but 70 career win shares is a big difference.

7. Stan Musial- Stan the Man finished with 604 win shares. He missed one year to World War Two, but his stats the previous two years were helped by weak competition, with many of the best players off to war. I'd adjust Musials overall totals slightly giving him 16 extra career win shares, finishing with 620.

8. Barry Bonds-Bonds has 611 career win shares. His 2001 campaign is now recognized as the greatest offensive season of all time, and garnered him 54 total win shares. He followed up with a stellar 2002 season, gaining 49 win shares, and 39 in '03. The real question is where this man will end up. He could finish his career even higher than Hank Aaron, and challenge his godfather, Willie Mays, for the title of best all-around player. But during the 2003 off season, allegations of steroid use have dogged Bonds, and could affect our perception of him.

9. Tris Speaker- Perhaps the most underrated player of all time, he collected 633 win shares but was overshadowed by Cobb and Ruth. A whopping 118 of his total win shares comes from fielding, further hiding his true value. Speaker played center field very shallow so that no balls would fall in front of him, but was able to catch those behind him through his excellent speed, much like Andruw Jones would many years later. The time line favors Musial and Bonds over him.

10. Mickey Mantle- Mantle finished with 565 win shares. James rates him higher than me since his prime years were so good. Mantle was the best player in the league every year from 1954-64 except for 1963. When he retired at age 36 he was still posting good numbers.

If Bill James says you're the greatest.

Then accept the trophy.


Because you are. :D
 

Trouty

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Ruth tops Cobb in a number of important categories outside of simply HR's such as OPB and WAR.
Here’s a good one Mike

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ompared-by-traditional-and-modern-measurments

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/newy...o-was-more-dominant-babe-ruth-or-ty-cobb/amp/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/207788-why-ty-cobb-is-the-greatest-ballplayer-ever

http://baseballguru.com/bburgess/analysisbburgess10.html

I include a couple links that were objective, and then a couple that were subjective to my argument :)
 

Trouty

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This is Bill James' list of greatest players of all-time using his win-shares statistic:

1. Babe Ruth- With 758 Win Shares, Ruth comes out as the best ever.

2. Ted Williams- Williams had 558 actual win shares. Extrapolating for the years he missed he ends up with 728 projected win shares. Of all the players on the list, Williams is by far the most affected by the extrapolation technique, ending up with an additional 170 win shares. How I arrived at this figure must therefore be explained. Williams missed three years due to World War Two, 1943-45. His win shares for the two years before were 42 and 46. For the two years after, 50 and 44. I assigned Williams 40 for each year for a total of 120. This is clearly a low figure, based on his performance both before and after. Williams also missed most of 1952 and 53 due to the Korean War. He had 34 win shares in 1951 and 29 in 1954. I assigned him 29 win shares on top of the one he had in 1952, and 20 on top of the 10 in 1953. None of these estimates seems improbable to me. In fact, they seem quite likely. Adding it all up, he is second only to Ruth.

3. Ty Cobb/Willie Mays- Cobb had 726 total win shares and Mays had 642 total win shares, but missed most of 1952 and all of 1953 in the service. In 1951, his first year he had 19 win shares, and upon returning had 40 in both 1954 and '55. Assigning Mays shares of 30 and 35 for the years he missed seems reasonable, bringing his total to 701. Mays finished 25 shares behind Cobb, and adjusting for the time line, these two seem about even, leaving open the question about who was the greatest all-around player ever

5. Hank Aaron- Aaron had 643 win shares, and did not miss any time. He made the most of his career, and is the all-time leader in Total Bases, Home Runs, and Runs Batted In.

6. Honus Wagner- The Dutchman finished with 655 total win shares, but the time line favors Aaron. James rates him higher than Cobb because his peak years were better, but 70 career win shares is a big difference.

7. Stan Musial- Stan the Man finished with 604 win shares. He missed one year to World War Two, but his stats the previous two years were helped by weak competition, with many of the best players off to war. I'd adjust Musials overall totals slightly giving him 16 extra career win shares, finishing with 620.

8. Barry Bonds-Bonds has 611 career win shares. His 2001 campaign is now recognized as the greatest offensive season of all time, and garnered him 54 total win shares. He followed up with a stellar 2002 season, gaining 49 win shares, and 39 in '03. The real question is where this man will end up. He could finish his career even higher than Hank Aaron, and challenge his godfather, Willie Mays, for the title of best all-around player. But during the 2003 off season, allegations of steroid use have dogged Bonds, and could affect our perception of him.

9. Tris Speaker- Perhaps the most underrated player of all time, he collected 633 win shares but was overshadowed by Cobb and Ruth. A whopping 118 of his total win shares comes from fielding, further hiding his true value. Speaker played center field very shallow so that no balls would fall in front of him, but was able to catch those behind him through his excellent speed, much like Andruw Jones would many years later. The time line favors Musial and Bonds over him.

10. Mickey Mantle- Mantle finished with 565 win shares. James rates him higher than me since his prime years were so good. Mantle was the best player in the league every year from 1954-64 except for 1963. When he retired at age 36 he was still posting good numbers.

If Bill James says you're the greatest.

Then accept the trophy.


Because you are. :D
Williams is not number two. And any list without Joe Jackson I ignore.

Teddy was great. Last player to hit .400 and fought in WW2. But number two? C’mon!
 

MichaelWinicki

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Here’s a good one Mike

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ompared-by-traditional-and-modern-measurments

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/newy...o-was-more-dominant-babe-ruth-or-ty-cobb/amp/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/207788-why-ty-cobb-is-the-greatest-ballplayer-ever

http://baseballguru.com/bburgess/analysisbburgess10.html

I include a couple links that were objective, and then a couple that were subjective to my argument :)

Cobb was a great, great player.

He just wasn't... Well you know. :)

Plus Ruth's pitching exploits need to be figured in there.

When Cobb wins 94 games– we'll chat. :D
 

Trouty

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I won’t make a huge debate out of The Babe being the best ever. He’s one of my fav’s, Mike. It’s style of play when arguing Ruth vs. Cobb.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Personally I find the Yankees story this year to be amazing.

No one picked them to go this far. Heck many had them last in the division. And the thing is they could be a force to rekon with for years to come. Their farm system still has a lot of talent and they're now in the position to be buyers during free agency with ARod's and CC's contracts coming off the books.

It's a unique Yankee team that's not comparable to any that came before it.

Well, I'll admit that I'm not anybody anyone might listen to but I did say, before the season started, that I thought the Yankees had a really good chance if they got some decent starting pitching. I liked their young hitting and I felt like youth was just what the Doctor ordered for the Yanks. Too many years of older players, big salaries and diminished results. Always fading at the end. Blowing my own horn a little bit here but I think there might have been one or two out there who thought they had a chance.

Now that's not coming out and saying they were going to win the East. That's different, you are right.
 

MichaelWinicki

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Well, I'll admit that I'm not anybody anyone might listen to but I did say, before the season started, that I though the Yankees had a really good chance if they got some decent starting pitching. I liked their young hitting and I felt like youth was just what the Doctor ordered for the Yanks. Too many years of older players, big salaries and diminished results. Always fading at the end. Blowing my own horn a little bit here but I think there might have been one or two out there who thought they had a chance.

Now that's not coming out and saying they were going to win the East. That's different, you are right.

Toot toot!
 

Trouty

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I reflect on this early morning in LA, and I am happy.

Harper is out of the playoffs. You guys have me pumped for HOU/NY. Even tho my Halos aren’t doing anything, I take solace in a small market team like the Astros getting well-deserved national spotlight, by proxy, of playing the Yanks.

Either way, whomever wins, this is gonna be a great ALCS.

Now, just need the Dodgers to lose. I hate hate hate the Dodgers. Loathe them.

How about a HOU/CHI WS??? Or dare I say it, a NY/CHI WS. It’s gonna be fun, and @MichaelWinicki ‘s love for the game is pumping me up and rubbing off on me.

A NY/Cubs WS would be fireworks. The sport would do so well to draw that series. A Dodgers WS would do wonders for the league, too. But piss off the whole Halo fanbase. Like the A’s, Mariners, and Rangers, I always root for the demise of the “Doyers”
 
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