Moore's first task as OC is getting rid of jumbo running packages Garrett likes

ondaedg

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One thing I noticed re-watching some games recently is that teams liked to leave one more defender in the box than we had blocker for. If we were in 1 back 1 TE, they'd put 7 defenders in the box. If we were 4 wide spread, they'd leave 6 defenders in the box. If we went power set with 3 TEs, they'd load the hell up. But they were always going to leave one more guy coming for Zeke than we had a blocker for. So saying that Zeke didn't face a bunch of 8 man boxes doesn't really tell the whole story - he was constantly running into negative scripts. The jumbo packages are especially stupid because putting 3 bad blocking TEs on the field simultaneously isn't going to help anything, but they were only part of the problem.

IMO, until we can get a TE that can beat soft coverage and make them pay for cheating up a safety or LB, we're going to see a similar scenario regardless of the OC.

Imho we have a couple of TEs who can beat this if it was part of the game plan. I just don't see a guy like Garrett being capable of a strategic counter like this. I dont have any personal dislike towards JG but in today's NFL you gotta have some type of strategic or tactical coaching advantage. He is a culture coach and not a chess player. Chess players are kicking names and taking butts in this league right now. Hoping Moore is a chess player.
 

links18

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People are getting so hyped about Moore and what he might do, that inevitably this whole thing will be a massive disappointment and the offense won't look all that much different than what we've seen for the last couple of years.

It's just hte way things work here in Dallas. LOL.

A favorite of mine was the NASCAR DL that was going to materialize when we signed Hardy. Our pass rush lineup of Hardy, Gregory and Lawrence were going to wreak havoc. I was fully on board with it myself.

But instead of a NASCAR, we got a Pinto trying to drive around the Daytona International Speedway.

Moore is a Linehan product. Why would much change?
 

charron

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Hmmm. That was an offense without Zeke. Pretty sure he alters how you game plan. I'm not sure what we saw against the Giants, anyway, besides Jarwin being featured. I don't expect to see a ton of that going forward. Honestly? I think we treated that Giants game like a preseason game on stilts. Took it as an opportunity to feature guys that normally don't get featured but, instead of going vanilla, tried some stuff on in our game planning to see what might work in a 'real' game.

With no Zeke we had to pass a little bit but they also changed the routes our TE runs. Running up a seam in single coverage gave Dak an opportunity and he passed for 3td's. Put Zeke in there so defenses are forced to respect him and no reason we can't have a bit more success backing off the defense. Linehan liked to give Dak easy options with curl routes and shallow sets, we have to open things up.
 

DandyDon52

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Does the jumbo include one WR?

Cooper spread wide forcing the defense either to single or double him.
what madden used to call the jumbo is no wr, just everyone at the line in tight, and a qb and rb.
It is a silly formation many teams still use it at goaline or 4th and 1, but it allows the defense to bunch up too.
 

charron

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I can only hope they turn Prescott loose and don't wait until the 4th quarter. I truly believe they did not want to leave this younger starting defense in the league on the field. Overexpose them

That's always the case. Safest thing to do is run for 1st downs. Dak throws too much and it can be alot of 3 and outs quick. Dak just has to take advantage of receivers single covered. That means coop being a decoy at times since he gets doubled and connecting long to gallop a bit more would help.
 

_sturt_

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No, its actually the entire board save ONE guy. EVERYONE else in Cowboy fan land wants Garrett out of here.

yeah_ok.gif
 

Qcard

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getting rid of the jumbo running packages that Garrett likes and spreading the defense out with 3 and 4wr sets. It's a common myth that we have a steamrolling type of OL when in reality they are more technically sound than any line in the NFL. Use that and let DBs tackle Zeke rather than LBers.

Power bunch formations stopped working in 1996.
You are going to Love Trysten Hill lead blocking for Zeke in goaline and short yardage formation. :angry:
 

Buzzbait

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My thought is can he be any worse than Garrett? I don't think he can which is why I'd rather Moore be running the O.

I agree he probably couldn't be any worse than Garrett, but I think you're assuming Garrett is going to allow Moore total freedom to run the offense whatever way he see's fit. I don't think that will happen. Garrett's not going to give this young inexperienced kid a free hand to go against Garrett's way of doing things.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd say give the kid the reigns and let him steer the horse and see what he can do; but I don't believe Garrett's going to let that happen.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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getting rid of the jumbo running packages that Garrett likes and spreading the defense out with 3 and 4wr sets. It's a common myth that we have a steamrolling type of OL when in reality they are more technically sound than any line in the NFL. Use that and let DBs tackle Zeke rather than LBers.

Power bunch formations stopped working in 1996.
actually dallas offensive line is best in run blocking and less in pass blocking. even in 2016......
 

Alexander

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Moore is a Linehan product. Why would much change?
Shush.

Don't try to ruin the effect.

This is still about Garrett. Getting Linehan was about Garrett.

Moving to Moore is about as close as you can come to firing Linehan versus retaining him.
 

ondaedg

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actually dallas offensive line is best in run blocking and less in pass blocking. even in 2016......

Right but it's not because they're a pure power blocking unit. Few lines in the nfl can seal off a lineman like ours can.
 

ondaedg

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I agree he probably couldn't be any worse than Garrett, but I think you're assuming Garrett is going to allow Moore total freedom to run the offense whatever way he see's fit. I don't think that will happen. Garrett's not going to give this young inexperienced kid a free hand to go against Garrett's way of doing things.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd say give the kid the reigns and let him steer the horse and see what he can do; but I don't believe Garrett's going to let that happen.

I have the same fear but am hoping the Jones boys set some ground rules with Garrett.
 

ondaedg

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I've decided I buy-in to the idea that it would really be cool if this site had a board dedicated solely to the anti-authority (anti-HC, anti-FO) crowd around here. I don't think there's actually that many of them, but they're just so passionate. They deserve their own space where they can enjoy each other's company, imo.

I'm not anti-Garrett from a personal sense. But his weaknesses are well known and it's tough to make it to the big dance in today's nfl when you struggle with the strategic aspect of coaching. Nothing wrong with discussing that here. A great coach would recognize that and leverage the coaches around them.
 

_sturt_

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I'm not anti-Garrett from a personal sense. But his weaknesses are well known and it's tough to make it to the big dance in today's nfl when you struggle with the strategic aspect of coaching. Nothing wrong with discussing that here. A great coach would recognize that and leverage the coaches around them.

I like to boast I'm neither pro nor anti Garrett.

Every coach except for maybe one has chronic weaknesses of some kind.

That's all valid to talk about.

Every coach also has some chronic strengths.

It appears to be a revelation to some, but that's also valid to talk about.

I do not consider any coach who has yet to even appear in an NFC championship game in 9 years to be "great." (Who does?)

I also recognize that it's not as-if great coaches grow on trees, so to speak. Just because you replace a guy who hasn't yet distinguished himself doesn't mean the replacement is going to be any better.

And sometimes coaches do progress... like sometimes, they may finish first in their 4-team division only once in 5 years, but then, may finish first three times in the most recent five years... that's irrefutably normally called progress.

Mathematical probability says a coach ought to be able to win his division once every four years... this one has slightly exceeded that average.

Mathematical probability says a coach ought to be able to make the playoffs about once every three years... this one is right at that average.

Mathematical probability says a coach ought to be able to get to the conference championship game about once every ten years... this one has one more chance to achieve that before he's lagging behind.

I am one of those who try to call balls and strikes, not just balls as some others do.

If Garrett fails to reach the championship game this season, it's probably just not going to happen. I think that's the prevailing conventional wisdom, and I agree with that.

Circling back to the premise of the OP, if you're not foolish enough to hand over to a 30 year-old assistant responsibilities for one of your most pivotal job expectations and most consequential to your keeping your job or losing it and, at that, responsibilities that kid has never had before.... then why would one think a Princeton University graduate would be that foolish?

I'm not suggesting Moore won't have input. He will have input. Hopefully good input. I think he just might.

But this will be a Garrett offense in a way we haven't seen since he was calling plays when he first got here. Moore may even call plays, but he will call plays much like a patrol leader in a Boy Scout troop has been well-schooled in what the Scoutmaster wants done, if that analogy works for anyone. Moore's input, then, will be one part of a recipe that will be Garrett's creation. Garrett will own whatever it is that happens, success or failure. And that's as it should be.
 

Number1

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the bunch formations came with Scott and likely left with him.

don't fool yourself, at it's core this is a simple play action deep timing system

expect this O to look a lot like it did in the 2nd half of 2018, which was quite different a faster pace, 35 passes a game vs average of 30 a game in the first 4.5 years of Scott

is that a massive difference? soft of, NFL low 30, average 35, high 40+
note - neither Tony or Dak threw for 4,000y with Scott, Dak projects to on 35 a game

Zeke's production also increased with the faster pace but not as much, the run pass balance didn't change much
they didn't start running different stuff, they just snapped the ball quicker

also note how much better this O would be with fewer sacks and more roll outs
not to mention a whole off season with 8 now familiar TE and WR targets and a healthy OL

JG, and Co don't need to reinvent the game, just use the common sense Scott lacked
 

lostar2009

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Does the jumbo include one WR?

Cooper spread wide forcing the defense either to single or double him.

We typically don't. We pretty much choreograph a running play from it and dare a team to stop us. We typically send out additional OL and probably a TE and a RB. We don't try to spread out the defense or nothing.
 

buybuydandavis

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getting rid of the jumbo running packages that Garrett likes and spreading the defense out with 3 and 4wr sets. It's a common myth that we have a steamrolling type of OL when in reality they are more technically sound than any line in the NFL. Use that and let DBs tackle Zeke rather than LBers.

Power bunch formations stopped working in 1996.

Get rid of jumbo packages with not so jumbo TEs who don't block that well.

Where's the beef? We got it. We should use it.

I want to see *more* jumbo near the goal line, but a more jumbo jumbo, with Hill at FB and one of our olinemen trained to be a short yardage TE. Maybe two. The strength of our offense is our oline, oline depth, the running of Zeke and Dak, and Cooper.

Hill has a 35 inch vertical. I wanna see him sky into the endzone.

Maybe the Power I with Hill and Collins both as FB. I always thought Collins had the makings of a jumbo FB. So good blasting guys in space.

Cooper always wide to pull defenders away. If they don't double, let Dak and Coop play a two man game.
 
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