More criticism of Julius Jones

[theogt]

try putting the crack pipe down, you'll see the difference

MBIII is a fine RB, but he is nowhere near as fast on the field as Jones is

David

I've got timed numbers. Cold hard verifiable facts. You've got your opinion based on sitting on your rear in your La-Z-Boy recliner. Take that and smoke it.

 

[dbair1967]

I've got timed numbers. Cold hard verifiable facts. You've got your opinion based on sitting on your rear in your La-Z-Boy recliner. Take that and smoke it.

its like arguing with someone about the sky being blue



seriously Theo...wake up man...

David

 

[theogt]

its like arguing with someone about the sky being blue



seriously Theo...wake up man...

David

Then don't argue about it.

 

[dbair1967]

Then don't argue about it.

I guess that blazing speed MBIII has is why he slipped to the 4th rd eh?

you know, the reported 4.6's and all? That was the main reason he went day two...lack of breakaway speed

and in two yrs, he still hasnt displayed any breakaway speed

David

 

[theogt]

I guess that blazing speed MBIII has is why he slipped to the 4th rd eh?

you know, the reported 4.6's and all? That was the main reason he went day two...lack of breakaway speed

and in two yrs, he still hasnt displayed any breakaway speed

David

I have no idea why he slipped until the 4th round. You'll have to ask the GMs about that.

What I do know is that he didn't run a 4.6. He ran a 4.49.

 

[Alexander]

Watching the NFL replays this off season, that was the case more than anyone thinks. The O-line doesn't get the total blame. The play calling was pretty suspect at times. If we open up the offense as has been rumored this year, I'd think that should cut down on those runs that get stuffed.

Has Julius Jones suddenly learned how to break a tackle?

That is even more paramount to his lack of great success than the vision comment.

If the defense is spread out and he has a wide lane, he can be very effective.

The point is that unless Garrett gets him more of those types of carries, he will be just like he was last year. He went down on first contact too often, whether it was his own man or a defender.

If Coach Parcells is guilty of one thing, it was believing the idea that he was another Curtis Martin. I cannot recall who made the comparison, it might have even been Maurice Carthon.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Has Julius Jones suddenly learned how to break a tackle?

We'll find out shortly. For his sake, he better.

 

[gbrittain]

I don't think it was the groceries that was the problem, per se, I saw alot of youth and inexperience, and Spears and Canty only spent 2 years in a NFL strength and conditioning program, so they weren't built to handle the immense 2-gap responsibilities that they were given, w/ that, and w/ Ellis' injury, we only had 1 effective pass-rusher in our D for the majority of the year, and that hurt our secondary

the lack of pass-rushers could be blamed on BP's grocery buying, of the players he brought in, only Ware is a dynamic pass-rusher



who would be more likely at fault

the inexperienced players, or the HOF coach? it's a combination of the 2 actually, a scheme that didn't fit the personnel that we had, and the personnel not being able to execute the scheme sufficiently and consistently, so I have no problem blaming Parcells for not adjusting for those facts



true, true



I highly doubt the latter was the case



once again, I think a scheme that doesn't rely on our players to have to win individual matchups all the time will help tremendously, for 1 example, Spears is an athletic guy who could fit Wade's 1-gap D very well, where he can use his athleticsm to shoot the gaps, the biggest problem for our D was our end play, they could not make a play in the backfield consistently, the scheme change should alleviate a good part of that IMO plus adding another pass-rusher in Spencer should Ellis not be effective, or should he go down again, but we need more pass-rushers anyways since only Ware and Ellis are dynamic ones in our D

and again, another thing that could help is Canty and Spears having another year in an NFL strength and conditioning program, as well as our other young linemen, so that they aren't bogged down everytime an offensive player gets their hands on them

Excellent reply.

I dont normally agree with most of what you say, but I can not really argue here.

I hope it turns out Parcells built a core of players that will make Dallas contenders for years to come. I will not care what he accomplished while he was here as long as his core turns out to be elite caliber.

 

[dallasfan]

As far as the MB III, and JJ debate goes, one has been an under achiever so far, and one has been an over achiever (you guys can guess who's who ), but neither imo are a starting quality back

 

[jterrell]

This is a product of the Parcells 'philosophy' of running the football. It goes entirely against all of Jones' strengths and is the primary reason that I can't wait to see what happens now.

I find it rather comical to blame Parcells for Julius lack of running success. Curtis Martin and other backs ran just find using the same rules and standards

And so did Julius in other seasons and games.

Parcells said in many a press conference there were yards left on the field by the running game. Missing holes is exactly what he is talking about.

BP may have asked him to hit the holes faster than he wanted so he didnt have time to see the holes develop but that means he is lacking some vision.

I would suggest to you Julius ran by far the best he ever has on draw plays because he is in fact much better when he has a chance to see the field before hitting the hole.

Barber also hit the holes very quickly and then he was able to muscle his way forward for more yards or crease the first line of defense for yardage and thats why he was so successful near the goal line.

 

[Use Your Illusion]

Someone (dwmyers, I believe) once posted an analysis of every running back under Parcells. For the most part, every back had better stats before and after the period of time under Parcells. For example, here are some Curtis Martin stats.

Career
3519 Att / 14101 Yards / 4.01 YPA

Under Parcells
1421 Att / 5340 Yards / 3.75 YPA

Without Parcells (and Healthy)
1878 Att / 8026 Yards / 4.27 YPA

This was the case with most RBs under Parcells. They simply put up better numbers when they're not under Parcells. Add to that the fact that Parcells openly commented on Julius being his little "compu-back" and Julius saying that Parcells had him running like a robot.

With all this in mind, you want to say that Option A makes someone a homer?

That's a very misleading stat because Parcells has used and won with many untalented running backs during his tenure as a coach, especially in New York.

Look at the three most successful RB's he coached/drafted, Curtis Martin, Otis Anderson and Rodney Hampton - Martin and Hampton played only a combined three seasons under his coaching and the rest elsewhere, so obviously their stats will boost that side of the equation up. Anderson spent his best seasons in St. Louis. By the time he got to New York, he already had 8 years of work under his belt and wasn't going to match the numbers he put up in STL.

So, yes, Option A still makes you a homer, because the thought that one of the most successful coaches in NFL history would be so stuck on a "system" that doesn't work that he goes with it even to the detriment of the team is beyond stupid.

There's a laundry list of people coming out of the woodwork to throw Coach Parcells under the bus for their lackluster play the last few seasons - players on both sides of the ball. I really hope these people own up and actually show they're right, but I doubt it. There's a lot of guys on this team who don't like to own up to their mistakes and part of the problem are the many fans who let them do it.

 

[AdamJT13]

Has Julius Jones suddenly learned how to break a tackle?

Julius can break tackles just fine. According to STATS LLC, his percentage of rushes with a broken tackle ranked 12th out of the 27 backs with at least 200 carries last season. He finished ahead of Willie Parker, Ladell Betts, Larry Johnson, Chester Taylor, Warrick Dunn, Ahman Green, Reuben Droughns, Shaun Alexander, Ronnie Brown, Deuce McAllister, Brian Westbrook, LaDainian Tomlinson, Tatum Bell, Edgerrin James and Thomas Jones.

Curtis Martin and other backs ran just find using the same rules and standards

Martin's highest YPC under Parcells was 4.04. Julius has been higher than that in two out of his three seasons (4.16 and 4.06), and his lowest (3.86) was still higher than Martin's overall average under Parcells (3.80).

Martin under Parcells = 3.80 YPC
Julius under Parcells = 4.02 YPC

 

[Zaxor]

He should have done a better job buying the groceries then. This has always been my knock on Parcells.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. On one hand you got some people defending him saying it the players fault...its the players fault.

Then the same people turn around and give BP all the credit for "turning around" the Cowboys franchise. This may not apply to you, but in fact I see it all the time.

Dallas did not experience but average results under Parcells.

Either he was one heck of a Xs and Os guy on game day because he did not have much to work with or he put some talent on the field but was unable to coach them.

I for one hope it was the latter. I hope he was a better GM than he was a coach. If it turns out he was a better coach than a GM, we probably should be bracing for some really big dissapointments.

Beautifully put my friend

 

[Zaxor]

Julius can break tackles just fine. According to STATS LLC, his percentage of rushes with a broken tackle ranked 12th out of the 27 backs with at least 200 carries last season. He finished ahead of Willie Parker, Ladell Betts, Larry Johnson, Chester Taylor, Warrick Dunn, Ahman Green, Reuben Droughns, Shaun Alexander, Ronnie Brown, Deuce McAllister, Brian Westbrook, LaDainian Tomlinson, Tatum Bell, Edgerrin James and Thomas Jones.




Martin's highest YPC under Parcells was 4.04. Julius has been higher than that in two out of his three seasons (4.16 and 4.06), and his lowest (3.86) was still higher than Martin's overall average under Parcells (3.80).

Martin under Parcells = 3.80 YPC
Julius under Parcells = 4.02 YPC

and again Adam comes in with the door slammer...nice find

 

[jay cee]

The issue here is that the ad lib takes you out of your gameplan. Right or wrong, it is BP's perspective that the game is a chess match and to play that game effectively, he needs to know that what he tells a player to do gets done - he's a guy who always thinks several plays if not several series ahead -- those early plays are run in a specific way to open up other plays later -- you don't run the play right early and then you don't have that stuff you were setting up for later.

This system demands players sacrifice stats -- I can see why a ton of folks here on the board hate it -- it screws their fantasy football stats up.

Of course, our O was 5th overall last season in yards per game and 4th in points, despite having a very ineffective Bledsoe starting. So something was going right.

I see what you are saying, but that does not factor in the fact that football players are not chess pieces.

They don't have specific moves that they make like on a chess board. IMO, a coach has to allow them a certain level of creativity in order for them perform their best.

It's not just about stats, it's about putting your players in the best position to make the plays that win games.

 

[Dhragon]

I really have to wonder if you might be correct here. Even I ( ) at some point can't blame Parcells for everything. Julius missed a LOT of holes last year. Why didn't Barber?

This blaming Parcells for Julius poor performance might not be warranted.

We'll see. I for one will not be surprised if you see more of the same from Julius.

Julius and MBIII are different typres of RBs. Barber fit Parcell's style better than Julius did. Julius is not a power back. MBIII is closer to that and that seems what BP was trying to do with his RBs.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Parcells has had a wide range of successful runners with vastly different styles. Joe Morris, Curtis Martin, Otis Anderson, Rodney Hampton, Dave Meggett .... they couldn't be more different styles. The fact that they were all good backs under Parcells with their own individual quirks tells me that Parcells did not just hammer square pegs into round holes. He gave his RB's a set of guidelines and parameters (aka fundamentals) he wanted the position to follow ... as all coaches do .... and from there individual talent takes over.

The fact is that you can pull up old scouting reports from Julius' draft bios and all the flaws we are talking about today were there in college. Lack of vision. Lingering injuries. Running up offensive lineman's backs. Going down on first contact. It's all there. If you count back to his college days, people have been waiting for Julius' "breakout" season for 7 years now. You can Google old Notre Dame offseason fluff articles where the theme is "Jones is expecting it to all come to together this season, after putting last year's problems behind him." Sound familiar? Just using Occam's Razor, you have to conclude that Julius is just limited. He's not a great back, and never has been at any level aside from maybe high school. It's not like we took a phenom Heisman Trophy winner out of college and turned him into a mediocre back. We took a part time back out of college who had to platoon carries with a nobody like Ryan Grant in college. You guys keep desperately clinging to a handful of games from three years ago .... Lots of backs have a handful of games where everything clicks and they look great. See Timmy Smith in Super Bowl XXII. See Duce Staley in every game against the Cowboys from 1999-2001. A-Train Thomas had 188 yard, 173 yard and a 160 yard games as a rookie in 2001. Did he look like a special talent to you when he was with the Cowboys? Just because someone has three or four good games in their career doesn't make them good, much less underutilized. You prove that week in/week out.

 

[Dhragon]

Lmao@all the Julius Bandwagoneers. You've all covered your angles and have an excuse ready for anything said.

And yall scare the living daylights out of me. Because if for just one second you're right, than we have someone so incompetant and easy to control sitting back there at the RB position and we are literally at his mercy.

So my question to you all is; Really? I mean really, that's the kind of player you want holding down that fort?

Just forget his "nice smile" and bright eyes for a second, look at the player. Do you really see someone competant of holding us there for the next 5-7 years? And what happens in a couple when Wade is gone and it's the next coaches turn to "tinker" with him some more? Really, you want a guy who will change his style of play for every bozo that comes around? Imagine just for a second if Jimmy had found it reasonable to change Emmitt's style those first few years.... AND THEN IMAGINE IF EMMITT HAD LISTENED!!

Point is, if a player is able to perform for a forseeable extended period of time in this league, coaches won't mess with it. Nor will a player have to allow it. Obviously something was off with Jones for Parcells to ever think he needed to work so much with him. Obviously something was off with Jones for Jones to think he needed to do this too. And now ALL of that is about to be thrown right out the window.. Thrown out the window because Julius thinks so and has changed his mind again. So I guess where was this strength of character when Bill was here if he was so against it to begin with?

Oh I see, he's the underacheiver that waits for the teacher to leave the room before the rucus begins. Great.

Like you would have ignored a HOF coach who "supposedly" was infalliBILL. Of COURSE you'd listen to him, especially if the alternative was to sit on the bench and have another be the starting RB instead. I think MBIII was drafted as a warning as much as someone else to help shoulder the entire load.

As much as you " LMAO " at us Julius believers/well wishers, I LMAO at all you Bill apologists who can't seem to believe Bill *gasp* actually had faults and weaknesses and that one of them "might" have been with Julius.

 

[Vintage]

Julius can break tackles just fine. According to STATS LLC, his percentage of rushes with a broken tackle ranked 12th out of the 27 backs with at least 200 carries last season. He finished ahead of Willie Parker, Ladell Betts, Larry Johnson, Chester Taylor, Warrick Dunn, Ahman Green, Reuben Droughns, Shaun Alexander, Ronnie Brown, Deuce McAllister, Brian Westbrook, LaDainian Tomlinson, Tatum Bell, Edgerrin James and Thomas Jones.




Martin's highest YPC under Parcells was 4.04. Julius has been higher than that in two out of his three seasons (4.16 and 4.06), and his lowest (3.86) was still higher than Martin's overall average under Parcells (3.80).

Martin under Parcells = 3.80 YPC
Julius under Parcells = 4.02 YPC

Wow.

It almost makes JJ seem good.

But then you look at the list and realize that most would trade JJ for half of those backs listed(rightfully so) and several others are debatable....

 

[InmanRoshi]

I would suggest to you Julius ran by far the best he ever has on draw plays because he is in fact much better when he has a chance to see the field before hitting the hole.

I would also suggest that while Julius has great speed, he's not a quick twitch runner and has to slow down and gather himself before making a cut. Draw plays give him extra padding to make his move. Julius excells running loose in the secondary as a 3rd level runner. Trouble is he has to get through the 1st and 2nd level to get there ... which explains why a guy with Julius' breakaway speed has so few big runs. Meanwhile, slower guys who are able to get to the 3rd level more consistently have more long runs than Julius.