More criticism of Julius Jones

[Doomsday101]

Sorry I'm not buying that Parcells told him to run right into defenders when there is an open hole. Barber clearly would find the hole and on some occasion Jones would find them but to lay Jones poor running at the feet of Parcells is ridicules. It seems people want to believe that because BP is no longer here and do not want to deal with the fact that Jones is nothing but an avg RB

 

[Vintage]

Sorry I'm not buying that Parcells told him to run right into defenders when there is an open hole. Barber clearly would find the hole and on some occasion Jones would find them but to lay Jones poor running at the feet of Parcells is ridicules. It seems people want to believe that because BP is no longer here and do not want to deal with the fact that Jones is nothing but an avg RB

I've been agreeing with you more and more lately.

Whazupwitdat?

 

[Doomsday101]

I've been agreeing with you more and more lately.

Whazupwitdat?

You have seen the light? Just kidding. There are issue that I agree with you as well and some that we just don't agree that's life. It makes these boards a bit more interesting when people speak their minds.

 

[jimmy40]

This is a product of the Parcells 'philosophy' of running the football. It goes entirely against all of Jones' strengths and is the primary reason that I can't wait to see what happens now.

Parcells to Jones "Once you get the ball, run into the first player you see."

Yeah, that's what Parcells told him.

 

[theogt]

That's a very misleading stat because Parcells has used and won with many untalented running backs during his tenure as a coach, especially in New York.

Look at the three most successful RB's he coached/drafted, Curtis Martin, Otis Anderson and Rodney Hampton - Martin and Hampton played only a combined three seasons under his coaching and the rest elsewhere, so obviously their stats will boost that side of the equation up. Anderson spent his best seasons in St. Louis. By the time he got to New York, he already had 8 years of work under his belt and wasn't going to match the numbers he put up in STL.

So, yes, Option A still makes you a homer, because the thought that one of the most successful coaches in NFL history would be so stuck on a "system" that doesn't work that he goes with it even to the detriment of the team is beyond stupid.

There's a laundry list of people coming out of the woodwork to throw Coach Parcells under the bus for their lackluster play the last few seasons - players on both sides of the ball. I really hope these people own up and actually show they're right, but I doubt it. There's a lot of guys on this team who don't like to own up to their mistakes and part of the problem are the many fans who let them do it.

Wow. All this and you didn't refute a single thing I said.

 

[theogt]

Sorry I'm not buying that Parcells told him to run right into defenders when there is an open hole. Barber clearly would find the hole and on some occasion Jones would find them but to lay Jones poor running at the feet of Parcells is ridicules. It seems people want to believe that because BP is no longer here and do not want to deal with the fact that Jones is nothing but an avg RB

I dunno. I'm not big on Jones. I'd rather have Barber as the starter. I think he's a better runner than Jones.

Given all that, I think it's pretty plausible theory that Parcells did in fact have Jones running like a robot. Jones said it. Parcells said it. And it certainly looks like it happened on the field.

 

[Doomsday101]

I dunno. I'm not big on Jones. I'd rather have Barber as the starter. I think he's a better runner than Jones.

Given all that, I think it's pretty plausible theory that Parcells did in fact have Jones running like a robot. Jones said it. Parcells said it. And it certainly looks like it happened on the field.

Then he would be the 1st. Not to mention do we blame the RB coach as well? Thing is Jones performed well in some games and poorly in others so does that mean he did not run like a robot in some but did in other games he did, if so why? Again not buying into this, it makes no sense what so ever and is just an example of trying to push off short comings on a coach who is no longer with us and can't defend himself from such comments.

 

[theogt]

Then he would be the 1st. Not to mention do we blame the RB coach as well? Thing is Jones performed well in some games and poorly in others so does that mean he did not run like a robot in some but did in other games he did, if so why? Again not buying into this, it makes no sense what so ever and is just an example of trying to push off short comings on a coach who is no longer with us and can't defend himself from such comments.

I'm not sure why he'd have to perform the exact same in every game for it to make sense.

If you follow your exact assignment, sometimes the play will work and sometimes it won't. It depends on your competition, your teammates, and a whole host of other variables.

And sometimes he simply didn't follow his assignment. On that TD run against New Orleans he very clearly broke from his assignment. Maybe it was too tempting to him at that point to now just hit the hole and start running.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not sure why he'd have to perform the exact same in every game for it to make sense.

If you follow your exact assignment, sometimes the play will work and sometimes it won't. It depends on your competition, your teammates, and a whole host of other variables.

I'm not saying you or anyone else can't buy into what Jones said but I don't. I think he was trying to fade some heat heading into a contract year and jumped on the blame Bill bandwagon. I really hope Jones has a great season but I don't think BP made him run like a robot, Bill has never did that to any other back he has worked with and I have no reason to think he did that to Jones. For me the bottom line is no excuses for Jones he either puts up or shuts up but I'm sick and tired of seeing others blamed for a players own shortcomings.

 

[jay cee]

I'm not saying you or anyone else can't buy into what Jones said but I don't. I think he was trying to fade some heat heading into a contract year and jumped on the blame Bill bandwagon. I really hope Jones has a great season but I don't think BP made him run like a robot, Bill has never did that to any other back he has worked with and I have no reason to think he did that to Jones. For me the bottom line is no excuses for Jones he either puts up or shuts up but I'm sick and tired of seeing others blamed for a players own shortcomings.

And some of us who think he is a pretty good player are probably sick and tired of him being ripped like the 2nd coming of Hambrick, because we think there may be truth to the fact that he was not allowed to play to the best of his ability in the system that Parcells ran.

We should know the truth this season.

 

[AbeBeta]

Sorry I'm not buying that Parcells told him to run right into defenders when there is an open hole. Barber clearly would find the hole and on some occasion Jones would find them but to lay Jones poor running at the feet of Parcells is ridicules. It seems people want to believe that because BP is no longer here and do not want to deal with the fact that Jones is nothing but an avg RB

Here is my theory.

Bill wasn't telling JJ to run to defenders -- but early in the game, his job is not to freelance, his job was to run to a specific spot on the field. In this offense there are plays that are specifically designed to set up plays later. Parcells seemed to use the first quarter of every game to set stuff up.

Evidencing this is our scoring over 17 games - 1st 68 pts, 2nd 129, 3rd 103, 4th 145.

Julius' numbers support this as well (17 games). 1st Q: 87-367 4.2, 2nd 75-282 3.8, 3RD Q 76-335 4.4, 4TH Q 51-212 4.2

The 1st quarter #s are thrown off by the 77 yard run he had in NO -- that added nearly a yard to his average - take that out and he's 3.4 for the 1st quarter. This suggests that he was doing something different later in the game than he was early.

Romo's stats are similar (these are 16 game stats - I didn't want to calc PR for the Sea game by quarter). 1st quarter he's 41-69, 70.4 PR. 2nd 61-89, 109.3 PR, 3rd 55-85, 100.9 PR, 4th 63-94, 94.5 PR. The jump in pass attempts from 1st to 2nd quarters is of note -- especially since Romo played only the 2nd half in his first two games.

What does all this suggest? It suggests that Parcells was using those runs by Jones early to set up plays for Romo later.

In Bill's scheme you don't go for the knockout until you have thrown a ton of jabs. If you are familiar with boxing, you know that many jabs aren't designed to hurt, they are designed to make the opponent defend the jab, leaving him open to a power shot later. That seems to be exactly how Bill used Julius early.

 

[Doomsday101]

And some of us who think he is a pretty good player are probably sick and tired of him being ripped like the 2nd coming of Hambrick, because we think there may be truth to the fact that he was not allowed to play to the best of his ability in the system that Parcells ran.

We should know the truth this season.

I think he is better than Hambrick but he has to produce much better than he has. I also said if you want to buy into it is Bills fault then be my guest, you can believe what ever you want but I just feel different about it. I don't think Parcells did anything to Jones or hinder him and his running ability.

 

[Doomsday101]

Here is my theory.

Bill wasn't telling JJ to run to defenders -- but early in the game, his job is not to freelance, his job was to run to a specific spot on the field. In this offense there are plays that are specifically designed to set up plays later. Parcells seemed to use the first quarter of every game to set stuff up.

Evidencing this is our scoring over 17 games - 1st 68 pts, 2nd 129, 3rd 103, 4th 145.

Julius' numbers support this as well (17 games). 1st Q: 87-367 4.2, 2nd 75-282 3.8, 3RD Q 76-335 4.4, 4TH Q 51-212 4.2

The 1st quarter #s are thrown off by the 77 yard run he had in NO -- that added nearly a yard to his average - take that out and he's 3.4 for the 1st quarter. This suggests that he was doing something different later in the game than he was early.

Romo's stats are similar (these are 16 game stats - I didn't want to calc PR for the Sea game by quarter). 1st quarter he's 41-69, 70.4 PR. 2nd 61-89, 109.3 PR, 3rd 55-85, 100.9 PR, 4th 63-94, 94.5 PR. The jump in pass attempts from 1st to 2nd quarters is of note -- especially since Romo played only the 2nd half in his first two games.

What does all this suggest? It suggests that Parcells was using those runs by Jones early to set up plays for Romo later.

In Bill's scheme you don't go for the knockout until you have thrown a ton of jabs. If you are familiar with boxing, you know that many jabs aren't designed to hurt, they are designed to make the opponent defend the jab, leaving him open to a power shot later. That seems to be exactly how Bill used Julius early.

I don't think Parcells told Jones don't run to daylight, he did not want Jones dancing around in the backfield only to lose yards nor does any other coach want his RB dancing around in the backfield. I saw what many others have seen and that is Jones flat out missing openings

 

[theogt]

I think he is better than Hambrick but he has to produce much better than he has. I also said if you want to buy into it is Bills fault then be my guest, you can believe what ever you want but I just feel different about it. I don't think Parcells did anything to Jones or hinder him and his running ability.

It's not necessarily Bill's "fault," as in it is a bad thing. Whether his particular style of play is better or worse is up for debate. I'm not really sure, though I certainly lean towards the worse. We'll see.

I don't think Parcells told Jones don't run to daylight, he did not want Jones dancing around in the backfield only to lose yards nor does any other coach want his RB dancing around in the backfield. I saw what many others have seen and that is Jones flat out missing openings

Yes, but why? Why did he miss those seemingly obvious holes?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Not that this will make any difference, because arguing Julius is like arguing politics or religion, but I thought it was interesting that Tony Sparano, in that interview posted somewhere here, mentioned two players he felt still had room to grow and create matchup problems for defenses: Jason Witten and Julius Jones. He didn't mention Barber at all.

Hmm, I wonder why not?

Everyone on the anti-Julius side of the argument overdramatizes Parcells' insistence on Julius going forward instead of juking and trusting his blocking as "Telling him to run into piles". Of course Parcells didn't tell him to run into piles. But has anyone here ever played running back, even on a small level? If you have, wouldn't you know it's not so outlandish to accept a coach insisting, "******, don't bounce it outside! We're blocking for the 5-hole, hit the *#%@$@* 5-hole!!!"

And sometimes the 5-hole doesn't get blocked. But you run it there anyway, because that's what your coach told you to do.

Why do some people find that so hard to believe? I don't understand it.

 

[Doomsday101]

It's not necessarily Bill's "fault," as in it is a bad thing. Whether his particular style of play is better or worse is up for debate. I'm not really sure, though I certainly lean towards the worse. We'll see.

I want nothing more than for Jones to start producing but I'm not going to sugar coat my feelings regarding his play. The man needs to be more consistent for the betterment of this team. BP is gone now so Jones excuses just left the building.

 

[burmafrd]

JJ is not the kind of guy that bucks authority. He would never be someone that would go eye to eye with a coach and demand something. Maybe that is a fault- maybe not. I don't see anything remarkable in him doing everything BP told him to do to the letter. Which in the end might very well have not been the best thing.

 

[AbeBeta]

I don't think Parcells told Jones don't run to daylight, he did not want Jones dancing around in the backfield only to lose yards nor does any other coach want his RB dancing around in the backfield. I saw what many others have seen and that is Jones flat out missing openings

Every back in this league misses openings. Folks can look at film over and over and say "there was a hole between the RG and RT" -- but we don't know the design of the play so it is hard to say what is missing a hole vs. what is running the play as designed.

 

[Doomsday101]

It's not necessarily Bill's "fault," as in it is a bad thing. Whether his particular style of play is better or worse is up for debate. I'm not really sure, though I certainly lean towards the worse. We'll see.

Yes, but why? Why did he miss those seemingly obvious holes?

Why did he miss the holes? lack of vision on his part. I'm not going to fault the HC and the RB coach for the shortcoming of the player.

 

[Doomsday101]

Every back in this league misses openings. Folks can look at film over and over and say "there was a hole between the RG and RT" -- but we don't know the design of the play so it is hard to say what is missing a hole vs. what is running the play as designed.

RB have the option of looking to the cutback lane, if you want to say BP told him not to then fine believe what you want but I'm not buying into that. Evidently people want the sugar coated BS instead of dealing with the fact that Jones may not be that damn good to begin with.