Mr JERRY JONES--The greatest NFL owner of all-time!

[BigDFan5]

The team was in the basement when Jerry bought them. There's no mistaking the fact that during the first five years after he bought them that Jimmy was the primary acting GM even though Jerry actually held that title.
.

Do you have any acrual facts to back up this assertion that our GM wasnt really the GM when Jimmy was here. Anything to prove Jerry was just along for the ride and had no say?



Also is there anything to do with the Dallas Cowboys that you believe Jerry has done a good job on? I am not talking about making money either

 

[Kaika]

ZONERS:

NO other owner LOVES his team as much as Mr. Jones does--period!

1st owner to win 3 Super Bowls in a 4 year span.

Pulled off the biggest trade in NFL history. Hershal for 3 Super Bowls basically.

He is the envy of ALL of his NFL peers because of his business mind.

I just don't understand how ANY TRUE Cowboy fan can say one NEGATIVE thing about Mr. JONES!

Someone explain it to me please............

Are you looking for work

 

[BigDFan5]

No, his % wasn't enough alone. But to say that the missing piece was Jerry is laughable. There were plenty of other factors involved with the Cowboys winning and the Dolphins not. For one we had the #1 pick in Jimmy's first year and were able to get Aikman right from the get-go. We already had Irvin from the year before and then got Emmitt in year 2. That's three playmaking future HOFers right from the start.

So picking the right players is bad (Its a fact that Jimmy did not want to draft Emmitt wonder who made the call?)

Couple that with the Walker trade and then Jimmy and the scouts parlaying them into a plethora of new starters and stars and it went from there.

Was wondering if you can name the players that we got in that trade that actually did anything for the team

In Miami he didn't have the young franchise caliber QB or RB. He didn't have the top notch scouting dept that he had in Dallas.

and he didnt have Jerry

I don't think the Dallas championship run was all Jimmy. But I am for certain that the mastermind behind all the great drafts and trades and coaching wasn't Jerry.

yet you have nothing to back this up

Why does it have to be love or hate? I don't hate Jerry. In fact, I think he's a good guy and would probably be someone fun to watch a game with.

Riiiight lol

It all has to do with disliking the way he has run the team since the time of the split.

yet if it had been successful you would have credited someone else like you are doing now



[/quote]

 

[VA Cowboy]

Do you have any acrual facts to back up this assertion that our GM wasnt really the GM when Jimmy was here. Anything to prove Jerry was just along for the ride and had no say?

Also is there anything to do with the Dallas Cowboys that you believe Jerry has done a good job on? I am not talking about making money either

Facts? I don't have an affidavit if that's what you mean, but I have seen and read many interviews and articles on the subject going back to the first couple of years Jerry bought the team prior to us ever winning a SB under his ownership. He himself stated that in the first few years he spent most of his time restructuring the organization and getting it's finances in shape. There have been numerous reports back in the day about how Jimmy ran the drafts and was in charge in the draft room. It is true, from what I've heard, that Jerry always had final say, but having final say and making the actual decision are two different things. I never heard of any selection or trade that Jimmy came up with that Jerry over-ruled.

As for things that I think Jerry did well. I think he did a good job in the early days letting the football people, coaches and scouts make most of the personnel and decisions that affected the team on the field. I thought he did a good job hiring Parcells and giving him the most control any HC had in Dallas since Johnson left. I'll get back to you if I can think of any more.

 

[iceberg]

nice skirt around of the question....

i could not be more direct in how i feel about it and NOTHING was skirted around.

you disagree, great. you do that.

 

[VA Cowboy]

So picking the right players is bad (Its a fact that Jimmy did not want to draft Emmitt wonder who made the call?)

I believe Jimmy did. Because it's also a fact that the player Jimmy was looking at in the first round was already gone. So we didn't just settle for Emmitt, we actually moved up from 21 to 17 to get him.

Was wondering if you can name the players that we got in that trade that actually did anything for the team

Several players that we got from the picks we gained in the Walker trade included Emmitt, Russell Maryland, Kevin Smith and Darren Woodson. I'm just thankful that Jerry and Lacewell weren't running those drafts back then. I also recall that Isaac Holt was a pretty good DB we got from Minny. Jesse Solomon was also a starting LB.

and he didnt have Jerry

I'm pretty sure Jimmy and the Dolphins are thankful for this fact too.

yet you have nothing to back this up

I'm waiting to see the facts you have that say Jerry was the primary decison-maker the first five years.


I don't know about you, but this is getting real old. If you want to believe Jerry is a football guru then don't let me stop you.

 

[BigDFan5]

Facts? I don't have an affidavit if that's what you mean, but I have seen and read many interviews and articles on the subject going back to the first couple of years Jerry bought the team prior to us ever winning a SB under his ownership. He himself stated that in the first few years he spent most of his time restructuring the organization and getting it's finances in shape. There have been numerous reports back in the day about how Jimmy ran the drafts and was in charge in the draft room. It is true, from what I've heard, that Jerry always had final say, but having final say and making the actual decision are two different things. I never heard of any selection or trade that Jimmy came up with that Jerry over-ruled.

Internet is a big place, you have anything to link to? I mean if Jerry had no control I am sure it would be out there

As for things that I think Jerry did well. I think he did a good job in the early days letting the football people, coaches and scouts make most of the personnel and decisions that affected the team on the field. I thought he did a good job hiring Parcells and giving him the most control any HC had in Dallas since Johnson left. I'll get back to you if I can think of any more

So what you are saying is the only good thing he did was nothing (according to you)

 

[BigDFan5]

I believe Jimmy did. Because it's also a fact that the player Jimmy was looking at in the first round was already gone. So we didn't just settle for Emmitt, we actually moved up from 21 to 17 to get him.

Jimmy did not want to draft Emmitt the story was relayed by a scout last year, you can find it on this forum

I'm pretty sure Jimmy and the Dolphins are thankful for this fact too.

You're right why would Jimmy or the Dolphins want the guy that helped propell the cowboys to 3 SBs in the 90s

I'm waiting to see the facts you have that say Jerry was the primary decison-maker the first five years.


I don't know about you, but this is getting real old. If you want to believe Jerry is a football guru then don't let me stop you.

I havent seen anyone say he was "primary" anything. Just that his hand was in on the decision and he wasnt some bumbling fool agreeing with anything he was told like you want to portray.

You can try and not give him any credit if you wish but the fact is Jerry was a very important peice to us winning as was Jimmy and the rest of the coaches

 

[Royal Laegotti]

For a bunch of Cowboy fans ya'll sure do trash the 2nd most successful coach in team history, ya'll make it sound like Jimmy could'nt wipe his you know what without Jerry, while really ya'll have it backwards.

I can't believe such love for an owner who has given us 10+ years without a playoff victory and one of those playoff loses was to the freakin' CARDINALS who had'nt won a playoff game since shortly after the Civil War.:laugh1: This is an owner who tried to build a football team with reject baseball players, come on Jerrylovers ya'll can do better than this.

 

[iceberg]

For a bunch of Cowboy fans ya'll sure do trash the 2nd most successful coach in team history, ya'll make it sound like Jimmy could'nt wipe his you know what without Jerry, while really ya'll have it backwards.

I can't believe such love for an owner who has given us 10+ years without a playoff victory and one of those playoff loses was to the freakin' CARDINALS who had'nt won a playoff game since shortly after the Civil War.:laugh1: This is an owner who tried to build a football team with reject baseball players, come on Jerrylovers ya'll can do better than this.

why is comprehension so hard to come by?

NO ONE IS DOGGING JIMMY! jimmy was a vital part of that "DUO" that brought us a dynasty! all we're saying is jjones has a solid role in that success also.

why is that so freaking hard to understand by the terminally dense i'll never know.

 

[Doomsday101]

why is comprehension so hard to come by?

NO ONE IS DOGGING JIMMY! jimmy was a vital part of that "DUO" that brought us a dynasty! all we're saying is jjones has a solid role in that success also.

why is that so freaking hard to understand by the terminally dense i'll never know.

I agree. Jerry was a very important part of the early 90's team and deserves his dues as well. Jerry has also made mistakes that have hurt the team. At times he allowed loyalty to those players of the 90's affect his judgment when he was restructuring contracts for guys who where past their prime. Jerry interference with the coaching staff also caused problems for this franchise. Having said that I think Jerry has learned from mistakes and proved that the day he hired Parcells and was willing give the HC the power he deserves. I feel confident he will allow the next HC that same power.

 

[CowboyJeff]

How is that?

You think the Cowboys had good drafts from 1994-2002 under the Jones/Lacewell tandem?

 

[iceberg]

You think the Cowboys had good drafts from 1994-2002 under the Jones/Lacewell tandem?

and the subset of the debate will now say "did jimmy succeed in miami?"

in the end - I DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE FACT. jones was still a vital part of our success in the 90's.

yes he's screwed up; yes he's easy to make fun of; yes he's got a huge ego - but we're expecting mutli-millionares to NOT argue about their own success when we can't even NOT argue about it as lowly "non-ego" fans? it's that *singular* vision that screwed us up and the "bashers" on either side simply can't see they're just as guilty as they BOTH WERE of huge egos at the time.

we argue over their "success or lack there of" on a daily basis and then some have the gall to take a side about who's side was right when taking a side is what caused all the problems they're ultimately whining about.

ironic, is it not?

sure jones has screwed up. yes he had some bad times after the good times. show me a team that hasn't.

please.

show me a team that found success and maintained it all the way through a franchises ownership. show me a team that has NOT had their highs *AND* lows.

now show me a team that has more "highs" that we do under jones.

new england.

hmmmm...pitt maybe? not sure of ownership changes over the years.

wow - that it? 9'ers and policy?

what the bashers want is ultimately very rare and seldom if ever achieved. yet instead of realizing that, they just bash jones for their own personal reasons.

some people have good / balanced reasons to dislike jones. some are just bullheaded and refuse to give the man his due cause it will somehow take away from their own worth in life.

god it gets old.

 

[CowboyJeff]

and the subset of the debate will now say "did jimmy succeed in miami?"

in the end - I DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE FACT. jones was still a vital part of our success in the 90's.

yes he's screwed up; yes he's easy to make fun of; yes he's got a huge ego - but we're expecting mutli-millionares to NOT argue about their own success when we can't even NOT argue about it as lowly "non-ego" fans? it's that *singular* vision that screwed us up and the "bashers" on either side simply can't see they're just as guilty as they BOTH WERE of huge egos at the time.

we argue over their "success or lack there of" on a daily basis and then some have the gall to take a side about who's side was right when taking a side is what caused all the problems they're ultimately whining about.

ironic, is it not?

sure jones has screwed up. yes he had some bad times after the good times. show me a team that hasn't.

please.

show me a team that found success and maintained it all the way through a franchises ownership. show me a team that has NOT had their highs *AND* lows.

now show me a team that has more "highs" that we do under jones.

new england.

hmmmm...pitt maybe? not sure of ownership changes over the years.

wow - that it? 9'ers and policy?

what the bashers want is ultimately very rare and seldom if ever achieved. yet instead of realizing that, they just bash jones for their own personal reasons.

some people have good / balanced reasons to dislike jones. some are just bullheaded and refuse to give the man his due cause it will somehow take away from their own worth in life.

god it gets old.

Saying Jerry and Lacewell screwed up from 1994-2002 does not mean you hate Jerry. Quite the contrary - I love Jerry. I wouldn't want any other owner (other than Stephen Jones) running this team. I've thanked Jerry personally in 2003 for taking Lacewell out of the equation. When I see him again I'll ask him, "What are you thinking when you entertain thoughts about bringing Lacewell back?!?!?!?" Jerry is human and he does far more good than bad, especially with local charities in Dallas. I love Jerry and I'm glad he's here.

 

[iceberg]

Saying Jerry and Lacewell screwed up from 1994-2002 does not mean you hate Jerry. Quite the contrary - I love Jerry. I wouldn't want any other owner (other than Stephen Jones) running this team. I've thanked Jerry personally in 2003 for taking Lacewell out of the equation. When I see him again I'll ask him, "What are you thinking when you entertain thoughts about bringing Lacewell back?!?!?!?" Jerry is human and he does far more good than bad, especially with local charities in Dallas. I love Jerry and I'm glad he's here.

sorry then - it's sometimes hard to pull out the balanced views from the VACowboy stuff of just bash bash bash and if a compliment must be doled out, it will be backhanded and double as an insult as well.

as far as lacewell - he never really left from what i understand. on my board we talked about that not too long ago and lacewell has been with the org all along - we've just not seen him.

that may make some happy, this not seeing him. but because that particular team didn't work at the time doesn't make all the "players" bad.

 

[CowboyJeff]

Here's more fuel to the fire:

If Jimmy ever did come back to Jerry and coach the Cowboys, I think they'd fail miserably. The Hershel Walker trade, plan B free agency, no salary cap, and no fresh assistants currently working for Jimmy were huge reasons the Jimmy/Jerry tandem succeeded in Dallas. I dont see that same lightning in the bottle with Jimmy/Jerry at this time in this day of the NFL.

 

[iceberg]

Here's more fuel to the fire:

If Jimmy ever did come back to Jerry and coach the Cowboys, I think they'd fail miserably. The Hershel Walker trade, plan B free agency, no salary cap, and no fresh assistants currently working for Jimmy were huge reasons the Jimmy/Jerry tandem succeeded in Dallas. I dont see that same lightning in the bottle with Jimmy/Jerry at this time in this day of the NFL.

of that i totally agree.

 

[CowboyJeff]

sorry then - it's sometimes hard to pull out the balanced views from the VACowboy stuff of just bash bash bash and if a compliment must be doled out, it will be backhanded and double as an insult as well.

as far as lacewell - he never really left from what i understand. on my board we talked about that not too long ago and lacewell has been with the org all along - we've just not seen him.

that may make some happy, this not seeing him. but because that particular team didn't work at the time doesn't make all the "players" bad.

no problem. I view it like my kids, because the Cowboys are like my family. When they're good I'm going to praise them, and when they're bad I'm going to scold them. That aside, I do not know for sure if Lacewell was still on Jerry's payroll for the last few years. He may have been speaking to Jerry privately from Arkansas as all friends do from time to time. But with official Cowboys business and decisions over the last few years, Lacewell has not been a part of that, and that was Parcells' doing.

My fear is this: Just like a retired coach gets that itch to unretire, Jerry now has the itch to fully regain control of all aspects of the team once again, now that Parcells has once again made the team competitive enough to do so. It's Jerry's team and he can do whatever he wants to do with his money. I fear the same bad decisions he made from 1994-2002 will be made again, because Jerry likes to surround himself with familiarity.

 

[iceberg]

no problem. I view it like my kids, because the Cowboys are like my family. When they're good I'm going to praise them, and when they're bad I'm going to scold them. That aside, I do not know for sure if Lacewell was still on Jerry's payroll for the last few years. He may have been speaking to Jerry privately from Arkansas as all friends do from time to time. But with official Cowboys business and decisions over the last few years, Lacewell has not been a part of that, and that was Parcells' doing.

My fear is this: Just like a retired coach gets that itch to unretire, Jerry now has the itch to fully regain control of all aspects of the team once again, now that Parcells has once again made the team competitive enough to do so. It's Jerry's team and he can do whatever he wants to do with his money. I fear the same bad decisions he made from 1994-2002 will be made again, because Jerry likes to surround himself with familiarity.

parcells doesn't?
vinnie, bledsoe
anderson and that other dude he pulled outta retirement for a few weeks.
carpenter being some former coaches son
glenn
ferguson
a. glenn
fasano - italian player he likes - bavaro clone

we ripped on parcells pretty hard for that. well, i did. i can see where "too much" familiarity could be bad, but it's hard for me to see someone nag at jones for it and praise parcells at the same time when parcells did it to his detriment (to me).

 

[CowboyJeff]

parcells doesn't?
vinnie, bledsoe
anderson and that other dude he pulled outta retirement for a few weeks.
carpenter being some former coaches son
glenn
ferguson
a. glenn
fasano - italian player he likes - bavaro clone

we ripped on parcells pretty hard for that. well, i did. i can see where "too much" familiarity could be bad, but it's hard for me to see someone nag at jones for it and praise parcells at the same time when parcells did it to his detriment (to me).

If people are going to use "Parcells guys" as reason to bash Parcells, when their main purpose was to get this team back in a winning mindset and provide peadership, then you have to say the same thing about Jimmy with his Randy Shannons, Rod Carters, and Bernard Clarks of the world. Slice it however you want, Parcells got this team out of the 5-11 dark ages and now they are competitive again. The familiar guys Parcells brought to Dallas his 1st 2 years here were mainly to be role models and work with the younger guys.