My issue with Bosa at 4

[31smackdown]

Maybe I'm just watching bad clips and games, but I'm really missing what all the excitement is about Bosa. I see more effort and impact on a down by down basis out of Carl Nassib then I do out of Bosa. Yes he has versatiliy in college and they moved him around, but I didn't see a dominant player. There are plenty of times that he would lose the edge or get washed out or not be able to beat a one on one. I think he'll be a solid player, but I think you want more impact from #4 overall. Maybe teams started to scheme more for him, but for someone who you hear so much about I was expecting to see more.

 

[BAT]

Bosa at 4 is a bad idea. The JJ Watt and even Jared Allen comparisons are hilarious. Boss will be lucky if he's as good as Chris Long.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Bosa at 4 is a bad idea. The JJ Watt and even Jared Allen comparisons are hilarious. Boss will be lucky if he's as good as Chris Long.

Bosa has flexibility, can play all 4 positions on the line.

Bosa is not flashy and will not have a 20 sack season, but he has a motor that never quits, he is an excellent student of the game, and he doesn't take downs off because he is tired or doesn't want to risk injury......cough....Clowny.....cough

He is universally considered one of the best overall players in the draft by virtually every notable draft analyst. Dane Bruglar has him going number # 3 overall to San Diego right now and Dane is one of the best in the business.

Not saying your opinion of him is wrong or that he will not be a bust, any draft pick has that chance, but what I am saying is that most of the people that make a living by evaluating players think he is good to be a very good one and taking him at pick 4 is not a reach at all.

 

[BAT]

Bosa has flexibility, can play all 4 positions on the line.

Bosa is not flashy and will not have a 20 sack season, but he has a motor that never quits, he is an excellent student of the game, and he doesn't take downs off because he is tired or doesn't want to risk injury......cough....Clowny.....cough

He is universally considered one of the best overall players in the draft by virtually every notable draft analyst. Dane Bruglar has him going number # 3 overall to San Diego right now and Dane is one of the best in the business.

Not saying your opinion of him is wrong or that he will not be a bust, any draft pick has that chance, but what I am saying is that most of the people that make a living by evaluating players think he is good to be a very good one and taking him at pick 4 is not a reach at all.

Bosa will be a 5 tech or 3 tech in NFL, he's just not twitchy enough to play 4-3 RDE in pros. And his claim to fame is tackles and TFL, not sacks. Of all the big DEs in this draft, I much prefer Ogbah to Bosa. Ogbah is not only more explosive but he's been consistently productive rushing the passer. Ogbah had almost 3 times as many sacks as Bosa in 2015 (13.5 vs. 5). Shaw Lawson is similar sized, more athletic and had TWICE as many sacks as Bosa, even with an injury shortened season, and lead the nation with TFl with 23.5. Both Lawson and Ogbah outproduced Bosa in sacks and TFL and both will be available much lower than top 5 picks. Maybe it's just me but prefer my pass rushers to actually produce rushing the QB. Production over potential has always been my mantra.

 

[texbumthelife]

Bosa will be a 5 tech or 3 tech in NFL, he's just not twitchy enough to play 4-3 RDE in pros. And his claim to fame is tackles and TFL, not sacks. Of all the big DEs in this draft, I much prefer Ogbah to Bosa. Ogbah is not only more explosive but he's been consistently productive rushing the passer. Ogbah had almost 3 times as many sacks as Bosa in 2015 (13.5 vs. 5). Shaw Lawson is similar sized, more athletic and had TWICE as many sacks as Bosa, even with an injury shortened season, and lead the nation with TFl with 23.5. Both Lawson and Ogbah outproduced Bosa in sacks and TFL and both will be available much lower than top 5 picks. Maybe it's just me but prefer my pass rushers to actually produce rushing the QB. Production over potential has always been my mantra.

And none of the guys you mentioned saw consistent TRIPLE teams. Bosa is an effort guy. It's that simple. He is never going to get outworked and has the tools to get be coached up considerably. He has great feet and some of the most powerful hands in the draft. He is not flashy. He is never going to get 20 sacks, as someone else mentioned, but he will consistently get double digits because you simply can not block the guy one on one. The fourth pick might be a little high based solely on his individual talent, but I don'tn think I could pick out five guys in this draft who have more value.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I don't think Bosa is the next JJ Watt, like some proclaim. I think he's the next Jared Allen. Is that worth the 4th overall pick when we already have Hardy, Gregory, and Lawrence?

I think he can replace Hardy since I don't believe Hardy will be back. As for saying he is the next Jared Allen, I don't agree. I think he is closer to Watt than Jared Allen. Though I don't believe he is as good as Watt. All that said, I'm not convinced Bosa isn't using something to enhance his play. Something likely to get him suspended at the NFL level.

 

[texbumthelife]

I think he can replace Hardy since I don't believe Hardy will be back. As for saying he is the next Jared Allen, I don't agree. I think he is closer to Watt than Jared Allen. Though I don't believe he is as good as Watt. All that said, I'm not convinced Bosa isn't using something to enhance his play. Something likely to get him suspended at the NFL level.

Seriously? Can you provide a single reason why you believe that? Nothing about his physique is abnormal. Nothing about his progress as a player is abnormal.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Seriously? Can you provide a single reason why you believe that? Nothing about his physique is abnormal. Nothing about his progress as a player is abnormal.

Yes, your crack usage.

 

[texbumthelife]

Yes, your crack usage.

Oh, you're one of those posters.

 

[tm1119]

Bosa will be a 5 tech or 3 tech in NFL, he's just not twitchy enough to play 4-3 RDE in pros. And his claim to fame is tackles and TFL, not sacks. Of all the big DEs in this draft, I much prefer Ogbah to Bosa. Ogbah is not only more explosive but he's been consistently productive rushing the passer. Ogbah had almost 3 times as many sacks as Bosa in 2015 (13.5 vs. 5). Shaw Lawson is similar sized, more athletic and had TWICE as many sacks as Bosa, even with an injury shortened season, and lead the nation with TFl with 23.5. Both Lawson and Ogbah outproduced Bosa in sacks and TFL and both will be available much lower than top 5 picks. Maybe it's just me but prefer my pass rushers to actually produce rushing the QB. Production over potential has always been my mantra.

1) it's convenient for you to ignore Bosa's 2014 stats before he started getting extra attention, and 2) basing any argument about the draft on college production is just silly. You can't just lump everyone into the same playing field and expect results like the game is played in a vacuum. Just doesn't work like that, way too many variables to consider.


Watt
Mack
Ansah
Dunlap
C. Jones
M Wilkerson
Mercilus
Atkins
Miller
Short
Donald
Peppers
Griffen
Ingram
Peppers

That's the top 15 in sacks this year. I see 6 guys on that list that fit your description of quick twitch DE's...How on earth could those other guys have gotten to the QB if they aren't "quick twitch" though? It must be a miracle.

 

[BAT]

1) it's convenient for you to ignore Bosa's 2014 stats before he started getting extra attention, and 2) basing any argument about the draft on college production is just silly. You can't just lump everyone into the same playing field and expect results like the game is played in a vacuum. Just doesn't work like that, way too many variables to consider.


Watt
Mack
Ansah
Dunlap
C. Jones
M Wilkerson
Mercilus
Atkins
Miller
Short
Donald
Peppers
Griffen
Ingram
Peppers

That's the top 15 in sacks this year. I see 6 guys on that list that fit your description of quick twitch DE's...How on earth could those other guys have gotten to the QB if they aren't "quick twitch" though? It must be a miracle.

You only see 5 quick twitch guys on that list? Even if I didn't count Peppers 2x, there are easily 7 guys maybe more. And there are different ways to get to QB - power, effort, technique, scheme, coverage, blitz, etc.

Sorry if I don't love Bosa as much as you but that is my opinion. And I did not see Bosa triple teamed or even doubled on every play as some have said.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Oh, you're one of those posters.

No, I am a Sam I Am poster. God of all the Internet.

 

[tm1119]

You only see 5 quick twitch guys on that list? Even if I didn't count Peppers 2x, there are easily 7 guys maybe more. And there are different ways to get to QB - power, effort, technique, scheme, coverage, blitz, etc.

Sorry if I don't love Bosa as much as you but that is my opinion. And I did not see Bosa triple teamed or even doubled on every play as some have said.

Ok I'm over this conversation with you...we'll agree to disagree because if you're going to tell me that Julius Peppers is quicker than Bosa at this point then I'm just going to conclude that you're incapable of having a reasonable conversation on the topic.

 

[BAT]

Ok I'm over this conversation with you...we'll agree to disagree because if you're going to tell me that Julius Peppers is quicker than Bosa at this point then I'm just going to conclude that you're incapable of having a reasonable conversation on the topic.

Are you serious??!!?? Julius Peppers is the epitome of athletic freak and is the DL prototype for quick twitch, size and explosiveness. There is no way that Bosa will equal, never mind beat, Peppers' 4.6 40 or his vert (measure of explosiveness).

And peppers is 2 inches taller and 10 lbs heavier than Bosa is now when he was drafted. Are you telling me that Peppers is less explosive now, then of course, but by how much is anyone's guess since there are no combines for vets. But Peppers game is still about athleticism and getting off the LOS faster than the OL.

 

[Kaiser]

Are you serious??!!?? Julius Peppers is the epitome of athletic freak and is the DL prototype for quick twitch, size and explosiveness. There is no way that Bosa will equal, never mind beat, Peppers' 4.6 40 or his vert (measure of explosiveness).

I agree with you completely. Peppers was also athletic enough to be on the UNC Basketball team when they were a Final Four team, he isn't a brute strength guy. I haven't watched a ton of tape of Bosa, but what I've seen doesn't make me think he is anywhere near what Peppers was coming into the NFL.

 

[tm1119]

Are you serious??!!?? Julius Peppers is the epitome of athletic freak and is the DL prototype for quick twitch, size and explosiveness. There is no way that Bosa will equal, never mind beat, Peppers' 4.6 40 or his vert (measure of explosiveness).

And peppers is 2 inches taller and 10 lbs heavier than Bosa is now when he was drafted. Are you telling me that Peppers is less explosive now, then of course, but by how much is anyone's guess since there are no combines for vets. But Peppers game is still about athleticism and getting off the LOS faster than the OL.

Yes of course I'm talking about Peppers as an athlete now. I don't believe that he's any better an athlete than Bosa is right now. Which is still amazing consider how long he's been in the league. I still don't think you're giving Bosa any credit as an athlete because he's not "twitchy" enough for you. What kind of 40 time are you giving him credit for?

 

[Beast_from_East]

Good info and a good discussion

 

[NeonNinja]

Yeah, people are going to like who they like but it's annoying seeing such definitive stances and it backed up with I haven't seen him much. Seriously?

 

[CCBoy]

Let me start by saying, im assuming we bring Hardy back. If we don't, im much more open to it but still wouldn't be thrilled.

With that said, under the assumption we bring Hardy back, Bosa makes no sense to me. First, he is projected a LDE. Yes you want to take BPA, but only if it's a position of importance drafting that high. In our scheme, the LDE is to the RDE as the 1T is to the 3T. Im not drafting a run stopping guy whose gonna get a few sacks if my draft position is the 4th spot.

Some will argue and say Guard isn't a crucial spot and look how Martin turned out with the BPA method in mind. My response to that is it was a middle of the first round choice (16th i believe). If im in the top 5 im drafting two types of players: QB if he is the BPA and im in need, or a BPA player at what is considered a crucial position (RDE, 3T, CB, QB, LT).

If Bosa falls to us and no QB is left, I hope we trade back and grab Ramsey or Elliott

I like your post.

When he came into focus, and teams started to double team him or chip at him...at the college level he disappeared in the rush. That will just get more difficult at the NFL levels. He was stout in run protection? How will he show up at the NFL levels...when the norm is equal or above his own level of strengths. I don't see him as a Too Tall or Harvey Martin type...so much on rushing with the front four, prominently.