My Take on Bosa & #4 Pick

[Manster68]

I just have to get this off my chest.

I think the best of long-time Cowboy Greg Ellis. In 11 years with the Cowboys, he only missed 12 games - amassing 77 sacks, 4 interceptions (one returned 87 yards for a TD), and made the Pro Bowl in 2007. This nice, professional man had a solid career and represented the Cowboys honorably (IMO).

There is a problem though. Not only was he the 8th overall pick in 1998, but he will also have the stigma forever that he was the guy Dallas drafted instead of Randy Moss.

If the Cowboys are to use the #4 pick, it cannot be used on a solid player who in ten years might eek out a Pro Bowl. Either you get somebody that tips the scales every game, or trade that pick down to acquire extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I get irritated when I see so many mock drafts having Dallas taking Joey Bosa. That is because when I see Bosa, I see an over-glorified Greg Ellis. Dallas cannot blow this pick.

 

[mattjames2010]

Anything on film you saw that makes you think "Greg Ellis"? What's the comparison here? What abilities do you think he lacks? Why do you think he won't translate to the NFL well?

 

[StarBoyz83]

Problem is theres nobody that tips the scales available.

 

[reddyuta]

Just saying he will be a Greg Ellis type is a cop put mo.The only think Bosa doesnt have is elite Athleticism but his combine numbers are still good.If he perform as he did in college while demanding double teams then i say he is worth the 4th pick but i am not Leon Lett so what do i know.

 

[LatinMind]

Anything on film you saw that makes you think "Greg Ellis"? What's the comparison here? What abilities do you think he lacks? Why do you think he won't translate to the NFL well?

For me the one thing that jumps at me that irritates me about Bosa is his get off. Religiously slow off the snap, he's usually one of the last ones to get out of his stance and his first movement usually is to get straight up i swear it looks like he there and says RT im here come block me. I know some times thats by design as DEs have a few different philisophies when playing the posistion. attack, read and flow to the ball. But 85% of the time its that same approach and that same tendency that got him bullied this past yr. If this team was playing 3-4 still he would be a very good 5tech. But theyre not and IMO he isnt an upgrade over what they already have on the left side. If youre looking for a SDE to allow lawrence to move to the weakside why wouldnt you go get the same type of player with a better passrush presence in Buckner? OP makes a great comparision with Greg Ellis.

 

[LatinMind]

Just saying he will be a Greg Ellis type is a cop put mo.The only think Bosa doesnt have is elite Athleticism but his combine numbers are still good.If he perform as he did in college while demanding double teams then i say he is worth the 4th pick but i am not Leon Lett so what do i know.

When did Bosa demand double teams? He was man on man the majority of the yr. And still didnt produce

 

[reddyuta]

I swear i read the same "he is slow off the snap" comments against JJ Watt on this board,is there any way to dig those up?.DEs in college dont go 100% like they do in the NFL especially in the Marinelli Defense.

 

[CCBoy]

This is the problem. The defense still needs a dynamic outside force, that can also stand up to the run. This would allow Lawrence back as the tight defensive end. But in keeping score as to potential fillers for this upgrade, here's the stumbling block:



A failed drug test at the NFL Scouting Combine is one of the reasons Gregory, who was considered a top ten talent at one time, fell to the Cowboys at the 60th overall selection in the second round of last year’s NFL Draft. So the young prospect had his problems long before meeting Hardy.

But Gregory has also failed four drug tests in the past year. And the rookie was recently suspended for four games for violating the league’s substance abuse policy. Although Gregory has fessed up to his mistakes, having a role model like Hardy certainly hasn’t aided his situation. And the fact neither of them produced very much on the field last year only convoluted the issue.

http://thelandryhat.com/2016/04/09/cowboys-greg-hardy-bad-influence-randy-gregory/





That would take swatting of flies and swallowing the camel, not to be concerned as to satisfying the large need outside.

 

[CCBoy]

I swear i read the same "he is slow off the snap" comments against JJ Watt on this board,is there any way to dig those up?.DEs in college dont go 100% like they do in the NFL especially in the Marinelli Defense.

And Bosa has yet to turn 21...10 years in the NFL would put him at 31.

 

[Manster68]

For me the one thing that jumps at me that irritates me about Bosa is his get off. Religiously slow off the snap, he's usually one of the last ones to get out of his stance and his first movement usually is to get straight up i swear it looks like he there and says RT im here come block me. I know some times thats by design as DEs have a few different philisophies when playing the posistion. attack, read and flow to the ball. But 85% of the time its that same approach and that same tendency that got him bullied this past yr. If this team was playing 3-4 still he would be a very good 5tech. But theyre not and IMO he isnt an upgrade over what they already have on the left side. If youre looking for a SDE to allow lawrence to move to the weakside why wouldnt you go get the same type of player with a better passrush presence in Buckner? OP makes a great comparision with Greg Ellis.

DEs that are equal to Bosa in my opinion can be found in the 2nd round.

 

[ChooChoo73]

DEs that are equal to Bosa in my opinion can be found in the 2nd round.

Why do you think virtually all mocks have Bosa in the top 6 and the best DE?

 

[ChooChoo73]

I just have to get this off my chest.

I think the best of long-time Cowboy Greg Ellis. In 11 years with the Cowboys, he only missed 12 games - amassing 77 sacks, 4 interceptions (one returned 87 yards for a TD), and made the Pro Bowl in 2007. This nice, professional man had a solid career and represented the Cowboys honorably (IMO).

There is a problem though. Not only was he the 8th overall pick in 1998, but he will also have the stigma forever that he was the guy Dallas drafted instead of Randy Moss.

If the Cowboys are to use the #4 pick, it cannot be used on a solid player who in ten years might eek out a Pro Bowl. Either you get somebody that tips the scales every game, or trade that pick down to acquire extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I get irritated when I see so many mock drafts having Dallas taking Joey Bosa. That is because when I see Bosa, I see an over-glorified Greg Ellis. Dallas cannot blow this pick.

I don't see Greg Ellis at all. The below link from DJ offers up other comparisons. Since watching Bosa on draft breakdown I saw more Strahan. I like Bosa and don't just view sacks as most important. I want a guy who is a handful in the rushing and passing game and Bosa is I find Bosa disruptive all three downs. My favorite selections at 4 include a QB, Jack and Bosa.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ats-best-nfl-comp-for-ohio-state-de-joey-bosa

 

[morasp]

I've also seen Bosa compared to Strahan. As far as how quickly he gets off the snap, Lawrece was slow his first year too but much better last year so it is teachable. One thing I saw on ESPN is that in the NFL these college pass rushers need some power to go with that quickness. Guys like Bruce Irvin, Dion Jordan, and Mingo haven't really worked out as well as hoped. I think Bosa has some power.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I've also seen Bosa compared to Strahan. As far as how quickly he gets off the snap, Lawrece was slow his first year too but much better last year so it is teachable. One thing I saw on ESPN is that in the NFL these college pass rushers need some power to go with that quickness. Guys like Bruce Irvin, Dion Jordan, and Mingo haven't really worked out as well as hoped. I think Bosa has some power.

Valid points.

But that's the issue with Bosa. You would hope that as the #4 overall selection you're getting a "pristine" pass-rusher. And he isn't.

One person (forgot who on this board) made the point that maybe Bosa has "maxed" out. And that's possible. He may not have any more upside to him. He played in an-almost NFL type environment and had top of the line coaching and training– how much more will NFL coaches and trainers get out of him?

He certainly isn't a "quick-twitch" guy.

The thing about other "slow" guys like Strahan and Lawrence is that they were 2nd rounders and not 1st rounders. As a 2nd rounder you can accept a blemish. But for the 4th selection overall, who isn't a QB... He ought to some "special" to him.

 

[reddyuta]

Valid points.

But that's the issue with Bosa. You would hope that as the #4 overall selection you're getting a "pristine" pass-rusher. And he isn't.

One person (forgot who on this board) made the point that maybe Bosa has "maxed" out. And that's possible. He may not have any more upside to him. He played in an-almost NFL type environment and had top of the line coaching and training– how much more will NFL coaches and trainers get out of him?

He certainly isn't a "quick-twitch" guy.

The thing about other "slow" guys like Strahan and Lawrence is that they were 2nd rounders and not 1st rounders. As a 2nd rounder you can accept a blemish. But for the 4th selection overall, who isn't a QB... He ought to some "special" to him.

I dont know how a 20 year is maxed out,i really dont.Now they have worked him out personally twice and had a VR visit,I think the interest in genuine,let see if they actually pick him at 4 but i may be moot anyway if he is gone before us.

 

[thunderpimp91]

When did Bosa demand double teams? He was man on man the majority of the yr. And still didnt produce

Uhhh I don't think you watched very many Ohio state games the past couple years....

 

[DFWJC]

Never thought I'd say this, but I think Bosa in underrated and very under appreciated in this forum.

I'm also fine with Dallas not taking him at 4, even though I think he'll be multi year Pro Bowler fairly soon. So, obviously, I'm ok with Dallas taking him too

 

[ChooChoo73]

Valid points.

But that's the issue with Bosa. You would hope that as the #4 overall selection you're getting a "pristine" pass-rusher. And he isn't.

One person (forgot who on this board) made the point that maybe Bosa has "maxed" out. And that's possible. He may not have any more upside to him. He played in an-almost NFL type environment and had top of the line coaching and training– how much more will NFL coaches and trainers get out of him?

He certainly isn't a "quick-twitch" guy.

The thing about other "slow" guys like Strahan and Lawrence is that they were 2nd rounders and not 1st rounders. As a 2nd rounder you can accept a blemish. But for the 4th selection overall, who isn't a QB... He ought to some "special" to him.

I think this is a great debate and only time tells. I think you make good points. I don't think it matters where Strahan was selected though. If drafted over again he would be taken at the top. I sense people are measuring Bosa strictly as a pass rusher and that's understandable particularly seeing Von Miller most recently dominate. I want balance against run and pass and find Bosa sharing traits with Strahan, Tuck, J. Allen, Pierre-Paul, Kerrigan and others. I feel good about him being a cornerstone player and a 3 down player. I think at his worst he will still be cornerstone and better than all other current players on our line.

 

[CATCH17]

I like Bosa... I like a trade down wayyyy better.

Bosa just isn't a impact player. If I'm just going to get a solid player I'd rather get multiple solid guys.

 

[Idgit]

Uhhh I don't think you watched very many Ohio state games the past couple years....

Yeah, not sure where he's getting the idea that Joey Bosa was singled up and still unproductive in college, of all things.

Bosa's a hell of a player and would be a decent pick at 4. He's young and has upside like any college player. People are talking themselves out of him because they want an explosive edge rusher who draft prognosticators unanimously agree has no chance to drop to the 4th pick overall.