My Take on Bosa & #4 Pick

[btcutter]

He is a solid player but not a impact player and not a pro bowl type DE. The only way he could sniff a pro bowl is thru injury and super bowl taking away better candidates. He will never get enough QB sacks. Taking him at 4 is overdrafting.

Unless you got a crystal ball that we all wish we have it's hard to say that. Just curious if you ever saw Watt becoming the All Pro that he is now and pounded the table to draft him.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I do think he'll sniff more than one pro bowl.

The #1 criteria is QB sacks. He won't get enough to warrant a pro bowl selection.

 

[CyberB0b]

IM not saying he wasnt, but he was single blocked alot of the time this yr and still couldnt do much. The majority of his double teams came when they pushed him inside. Seems like i watched enough but you didnt pay attention. What i saw alot is Bosa allowed himself to get washed alot of times. Thats not a double team, thats just a player who didnt recognized what teams were doing to him.

Your ignorance is showing. He was moved inside to 3 tech specifically to avoid double teams, due to scheme design.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I just have to get this off my chest.

I think the best of long-time Cowboy Greg Ellis. In 11 years with the Cowboys, he only missed 12 games - amassing 77 sacks, 4 interceptions (one returned 87 yards for a TD), and made the Pro Bowl in 2007. This nice, professional man had a solid career and represented the Cowboys honorably (IMO).

There is a problem though. Not only was he the 8th overall pick in 1998, but he will also have the stigma forever that he was the guy Dallas drafted instead of Randy Moss.

If the Cowboys are to use the #4 pick, it cannot be used on a solid player who in ten years might eek out a Pro Bowl. Either you get somebody that tips the scales every game, or trade that pick down to acquire extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I get irritated when I see so many mock drafts having Dallas taking Joey Bosa. That is because when I see Bosa, I see an over-glorified Greg Ellis. Dallas cannot blow this pick.

I believe a couple of weeks ago, I commented that he is another Greg Ellis. (the player)

Power to the People. Fat People.

 

[AzorAhai]

Valid points.

But that's the issue with Bosa. You would hope that as the #4 overall selection you're getting a "pristine" pass-rusher. And he isn't.

One person (forgot who on this board) made the point that maybe Bosa has "maxed" out. And that's possible. He may not have any more upside to him. He played in an-almost NFL type environment and had top of the line coaching and training– how much more will NFL coaches and trainers get out of him?

He certainly isn't a "quick-twitch" guy.

The thing about other "slow" guys like Strahan and Lawrence is that they were 2nd rounders and not 1st rounders. As a 2nd rounder you can accept a blemish. But for the 4th selection overall, who isn't a QB... He ought to some "special" to him.

(Raises hand) I think that might have been me in that questionairre thread.

Thats probably my biggest fear with him. He's a weight room champ and is very sound with his technique, especially his hand usage. He doesn't have a lot of things left to improve that you could really see push his game to another level in the pros. Besides his get off, most of it's just minor things that meed to be cleaned up. So does his current skill set with marginal improvements equal a pro bowl DE?

At the same time, I think he's one of the least risky players in the draft. He's got a high floor, we just don't know how high his ceiling is. Is he a government bond? Or does he offer more? If he doesn't, well he's probably never going to justify spending the 4th pick on him.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

(Raises hand) I think that might have been me in that questionairre thread.

Thats probably my biggest fear with him. He's a weight room champ and is very sound with his technique, especially his hand usage. He doesn't have a lot of things left to improve that you could really see push his game to another level in the pros. Besides his get off, most of it's just minor things that meed to be cleaned up. So does his current skill set with marginal improvements equal a pro bowl DE?

At the same time, I think he's one of the least risky players in the draft. He's got a high floor, we just don't know how high his ceiling is. Is he a government bond? Or does he offer more? If he doesn't, well he's probably never going to justify spending the 4th pick on him.

My biggest concern with him is his speed off the snap... Or lack thereof for a top-level 4-3 DE. And that speed off the snap isn't likely to improve (much) at the next level.

 

[phildadon86]

Problem is theres nobody that tips the scales available.

EE

 

[Oh_Canada]

This anti-Bosa stuff is laughable, can't wait to look back and compare careers with some of these players people are saying are better.
The only thing stopping me from drafting him are off field issues we don't know about and/or a qb the team feels is a potential franchise type.

 

[Oh_Canada]

My biggest concern with him is his speed off the snap... Or lack thereof for a top-level 4-3 DE. And that speed off the snap isn't likely to improve (much) at the next level.

Bosa tops Jared Allen, Mario Williams on every measurable. Is he JJ Watt, no, is anyone Watt absolutely not.

 

[morasp]

Strengths

has a good combination of size and speed. Takes direct routes to the quarterback, uses his hands well to get unblocked and shows a closing burst. Knocks down a lot of passes. Great hand usage against the run as well, keeps blockers off away from his frame and locates the ball-carrier. Outstanding football IQ. Non-stop motor.
Weaknesses

Won't consistently get the edge on tackles with his get off or quickness. Plays high at times, can be blown off the ball by the double team, but does fight hard to hold ground. Lacks some lateral mobility both rushing the passer and playing in space. Will occasionally give up outside contain.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/j.j.-watt?id=2495488#tab=1

 

[CCBoy]

(Raises hand) I think that might have been me in that questionairre thread.

Thats probably my biggest fear with him. He's a weight room champ and is very sound with his technique, especially his hand usage. He doesn't have a lot of things left to improve that you could really see push his game to another level in the pros. Besides his get off, most of it's just minor things that meed to be cleaned up. So does his current skill set with marginal improvements equal a pro bowl DE?

At the same time, I think he's one of the least risky players in the draft. He's got a high floor, we just don't know how high his ceiling is. Is he a government bond? Or does he offer more? If he doesn't, well he's probably never going to justify spending the 4th pick on him.

Unless the guy is a dearheart in his heart of hearts...hitting about 22 will see great technique applications, anticipation - which converts to speed, and pure power and pop in his hands.

 

[Plankton]

Just a sec, googling "Greg Ellis triple teamed" to see what I get.

Just kidding. I'm not bothering to google that.

The link that appears from that may not pass through the filters of this site.

 

[Idgit]

The link that appears from that may not pass through the filters of this site.

Lol. I hadn't thought of that. Now, where's my eye-bleach.

 

[Plankton]

What sort of weird point are you trying to make? Do you think people count to three differently in Hawaii and Illinois?

Living here in Illinois, the answer might be different than you think.

 

[Idgit]

The link that appears from that may not pass through the filters of this site.

For the record, I passed up a perfectly good 'defensive end' joke here. Who says I don't have a filter?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Strengths

has a good combination of size and speed. Takes direct routes to the quarterback, uses his hands well to get unblocked and shows a closing burst. Knocks down a lot of passes. Great hand usage against the run as well, keeps blockers off away from his frame and locates the ball-carrier. Outstanding football IQ. Non-stop motor.
Weaknesses

Won't consistently get the edge on tackles with his get off or quickness. Plays high at times, can be blown off the ball by the double team, but does fight hard to hold ground. Lacks some lateral mobility both rushing the passer and playing in space. Will occasionally give up outside contain.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/j.j.-watt?id=2495488#tab=1

And then he does a 4.2 shuttle belying that whole narrative of a lack of quickness. I think there has been a whole lot of misinformation put out about this prospect. It seems firms are making a concerted effort to see him fall. A team like Baltimore makes sense.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

(Raises hand) I think that might have been me in that questionairre thread.

Thats probably my biggest fear with him. He's a weight room champ and is very sound with his technique, especially his hand usage. He doesn't have a lot of things left to improve that you could really see push his game to another level in the pros. Besides his get off, most of it's just minor things that meed to be cleaned up. So does his current skill set with marginal improvements equal a pro bowl DE?

At the same time, I think he's one of the least risky players in the draft. He's got a high floor, we just don't know how high his ceiling is. Is he a government bond? Or does he offer more? If he doesn't, well he's probably never going to justify spending the 4th pick on him.

Sorry but looking at his bubble and legs he looks slender. He is only 20 years old and most people develop into their 20s.

He certainly does have a high floor but his ceiling is high too. He is so so strong and quick with his hands that with his quick first step he was able to just handfight his way to the QB. His pass rush moves are not polished. Frankly, I find the notion that Marinelli would have nothing to teach him laughable.

BTW the last guy with 'limited upside' we drafted was Zach Martin.

 

[morasp]

And then he does a 4.2 shuttle belying that whole narrative of a lack of quickness. I think there has been a whole lot of misinformation put out about this prospect. It seems firms are making a concerted effort to see him fall. A team like Baltimore makes sense.

Click the link, that wasn't a profile of Bosa but it sounded awfully similar to him.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The attention he got in college is mostly irrelevant in terms of projecting his success in the NFL, but yet you still see people acting like it matters.

Again, he is a very good player, will probably have a nice solid career. But I see people projecting hope on him like he will be the difference maker that this line sorely needs.

Why because you say so? He is unlikely to face all those double teams in the NFL true but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter. I know you like the lazy blanket dismissal but that doesn't hold water. Teams call players that force the opposing coordinator to adjust tactics and strategy catalytic.

You don't even do the argument right. The argument is that while he was double and triple teamed constantly he still managed 70 pressures. Frankly that he was so productive given adverse circumstances is remarkable.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He is a solid player but not a impact player and not a pro bowl type DE. The only way he could sniff a pro bowl is thru injury and super bowl taking away better candidates. He will never get enough QB sacks. Taking him at 4 is overdrafting.

This just sounds like the good not great argument where you are assuming good versus great outcomes. Speaking in declarations doesn't make it true.