CFZ My Theory on Jalen Tolbert

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,399
Reaction score
22,790
Wide receiver is actually one of the easier positions to learn.
Not in the NFL it aint. Receiver has traditionally been one of the positions that has been most difficult to make the jump from college to pro. Typically because the speed of the game and of the competitors makes such a huge jump as does the complexity of what is asked of the kids. In college it's typically, "line up and out athlete the guy covering you." And almost all of the guys who get drafted can do that pretty much every Saturday. You get to the pros and you MIGHT be able to out-athlete 10-20% of the corners in the league. Rarely is a receiver so great of an athlete that he can just line up and beat NFL corners from day one. So it becomes a matter of mastering technique and the mental side of the game. They have to read coverages and adjust their routes accordingly. And they have to be on the same page as their QB.. which isn't guaranteed.. They have to see blitzes coming and change their route on the fly to the correct blitz beater for that particular coverage and situation. Then on top of all that you've got this other world class athlete in your face all game long trying to stop you from doing what you wanna do.

What has helped young receivers in recent years is the same thing that has helped young QBs and that is that the college game and the pro game are getting more similar every day. A lot of these college coaches are getting jobs in the NFL and bringing the same reads and route concepts to the pros. So guys are having shorter learning curves than before. But it still aint a zero learning curve. Especially not for small school dudes.

I'm not going to lie and say I ever saw Tolbert play in college. My knowledge of him is limited to highlight film .. which we all know makes every guy look like a future all pro. What I saw from him last season was a kid who looked overwhelmed and lost. Like he didn't know what he was doing, didn't know how to get open and the QBs did not trust him when he did. Hopefully some of that subsides this year and he can let his athletic ability shine through.
 

birdwells1

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,835
Reaction score
4,073
After the 2022 draft, Dallas Cowboys fans fast-forwarded to the future, and Jalen Tolbert was the day 1 starter.

Now, in 2023, they rewind, and it just never came to be.

Most had high hopes for Tolbert going into preseason, so the question is: why?

Why didn't Jalen Tolbert win the starting spot in 2023.

In my opinion, it comes down to experience.

If you know about Tolbert's sports history, he mostly played baseball in his youth. It wasn't until the 11th grade that Tolbert started dabbling in football. During his freshman year, he tallied just 5 receptions for 60 years; his sophomore year he was 27 for 521; during his junior year he caught 64 passes for 1,085 yards, and ended his college career with 84 catches totaling 1,474 yards, according to sports-reference.com.

After the draft, we all heard about how Tolbert was a standout in camp. He probably was. Unless you don't believe the testimony of people attending camp. Then there was preseason. And we saw maybe a little glimpse of what Tolbert could do on a single pass play for 17 yards, I believe it was.

Then, he played a handful of plays versus the Bears, and it never really amounted to much. But if you consider he made a considerable leap every year in college, then it's reasonable to expect he might turn things around after an off-season in 2023.

It's not like he never got open. There were times when he was wide open, sometimes for a touchdown even. But Dak was often looking at something else on the field.. I look for Tolbert to be a bigger part of the offense next season if he can digest the playbook and the speed of the NFL.

McCarthy also told the media he had a hamstring issue, so maybe there was something to that. Or maybe there wasn't. Either way, while it's still too early to judge; it's likely also to risky to sit on your hands and avoid drafting a receiver in the 2023 NFL draft.
I never had high expectations for Tolbert, he was a good wr from a small school so I felt that patience would be required. The man reason he was a disappointment was that the Joneses hyped him up to cover for the Amari Cooper trade blunder. After he was drafted all these reports came out that he was hand picked by Dak, he went off to a throwing camp with Dak and that their chemistry was off the charts. That may have been true but it was all propaganda as they had him stepping in and the offense wouldn't miss a beat without Cooper. I just never bought into what the Joneses was selling.

The real reason that Tolbert and other young wrs didn't get on the field imo is OPTION ROUTES, they require the wr and the qb to read the same coverage and if they don't then interception will occur. Interceptions are the worst thing that can happen with miscommunication but if the qb doesn't trust the wr then he'll hesitate or double clutch the ball (see Dak's int against SF throwing to Gallup) until the wr is open instead of trusting him and throwing with anticipation. Imagine a team showing man coverage and right after the snap change to 2 deep safety zone, Dak might read it but what about the wr? Or the wr may read it but what about Dak?

Mike McCarthy already said in a press conference that he hate option routes so now that Kellen's gone maybe we've seen the last of them and it will allow our young wrs to just play instead of having to think so much on the field.
 

CWR

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,249
Reaction score
36,818
Speed or separation? I get confused and concerned that so many more knowledgeable talking heads mentioned that Hilton was open on a number of occasions.

I'm talking specifically about speed at the position. The talking heads are cherry picking. On a whole our separation was terrible. Noah and Gallup were 120th in separation. CD wasn't even top 25. That looks like a scheme problem to me, although Cooper finished 11th.
 

LatinMind

iPhotoshop
Messages
17,457
Reaction score
11,571
he will have a nice training camp I think. I like the kid. He seems smart and has his head right. I think he can replace Gallup at some point. Lets face it, that won't be very hard. MG hasn't been great.
He can't even get on the field. He couldnt beat out a 1 legged wr. He'll he got passed up by UDFA. He's a scrub
 

Rayman70

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,104
Reaction score
34,029
He can't even get on the field. He couldnt beat out a 1 legged wr. He'll he got passed up by UDFA. He's a scrub
that's hasty and way premature. Lets give him at least this camp before we declare him a bust. We will know real fast if he hasn't done enough. I would still draft a wr and resign TY at very least.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,170
Reaction score
64,688
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
After the 2022 draft, Dallas Cowboys fans fast-forwarded to the future, and Jalen Tolbert was the day 1 starter.

Now, in 2023, they rewind, and it just never came to be.

Most had high hopes for Tolbert going into preseason, so the question is: why?

Why didn't Jalen Tolbert win the starting spot in 2023.

In my opinion, it comes down to experience.

If you know about Tolbert's sports history, he mostly played baseball in his youth. It wasn't until the 11th grade that Tolbert started dabbling in football. During his freshman year, he tallied just 5 receptions for 60 years; his sophomore year he was 27 for 521; during his junior year he caught 64 passes for 1,085 yards, and ended his college career with 84 catches totaling 1,474 yards, according to sports-reference.com.

After the draft, we all heard about how Tolbert was a standout in camp. He probably was. Unless you don't believe the testimony of people attending camp. Then there was preseason. And we saw maybe a little glimpse of what Tolbert could do on a single pass play for 17 yards, I believe it was.

Then, he played a handful of plays versus the Bears, and it never really amounted to much. But if you consider he made a considerable leap every year in college, then it's reasonable to expect he might turn things around after an off-season in 2023.

It's not like he never got open. There were times when he was wide open, sometimes for a touchdown even. But Dak was often looking at something else on the field.. I look for Tolbert to be a bigger part of the offense next season if he can digest the playbook and the speed of the NFL.

McCarthy also told the media he had a hamstring issue, so maybe there was something to that. Or maybe there wasn't. Either way, while it's still too early to judge; it's likely also to risky to sit on your hands and avoid drafting a receiver in the 2023 NFL draft.
I think the answer is less complicated.

Look at the success rate of rookie 3rd round WRs and the answer is likely obvious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JPM

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
61,602
Reaction score
38,974
I don't think anyone was saying that. Day 1 starter? Rookie 3rd round WR's just don't contribute that fast. Very unreasonable expectation.
Mickey Spagnola and some others who cover the Cowboys were saying he could be a day one starter during training camp. It did look like a possibility very early on. With Michael Gallup going to miss the first few games of the regular season and James Washington going down the first day of training camp some around the team were talking up Tolbert as a day one starter. That started to dissipate as camp went on and he disappeared in preseason games.
 

LatinMind

iPhotoshop
Messages
17,457
Reaction score
11,571
that's hasty and way premature. Lets give him at least this camp before we declare him a bust. We will know real fast if he hasn't done enough. I would still draft a wr and resign TY at very least.
It is, but just watching him. Just looks like the games to big for him. Small school kid doesn't have the confidence. And I'm sorry but his routes are lazy. I actually think they've already moved on from him.
 

Jimbo123

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,875
Reaction score
1,431
His offsides penalty against GB told me all I need to know about Tolbert.
 

MapleLeaf

Maple Leaf
Messages
5,167
Reaction score
1,555
BTW, for those who don't understand physical skillsets and how they transfer, it's almost impossible to get open w/o burst at the NFL level. Tolbert most likely won't be able to consistently create enough separation to contribute at a high level.
This is exceedingly obvious with the case of Noah Brown.

The proof is going to be in the pudding this year. If we see MM come up with overly simplistic routes with very little pre-snap motion, then it becomes obvious that either the staff can't coach the concepts or the players are too dumb to learn and the conditions wind down into a situation where pre-snap penalties become an issue.

At some point we want to see the dogs we bring into the kennel show they are competitive dogs, learning dogs and resilient dogs who don't quit.

If we have third year of the same thing, then it becomes a huge question on what kind of kennel we are building for the dog fight.
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
47,978
Reaction score
50,828
I'm talking specifically about speed at the position. The talking heads are cherry picking. On a whole our separation was terrible. Noah and Gallup were 120th in separation. CD wasn't even top 25. That looks like a scheme problem to me, although Cooper finished 11th.
Way too many curls.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CWR

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,399
Reaction score
22,790
Gallup was a stud before getting injured.

Yeah I don't get the lack of respect for that guy. He was on close to a thousand yard pace in 2020 before Dak went down and has a 3 TD reception game and several 120+ yards receiving games to his credit if I'm not mistaken. Judging him on these last two injury riddled seasons is simply not accurate. I look forward to Gallup returning to his pre-injury beastliness and folks will be reminded how good he is..
 

CowboyoWales

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,518
Reaction score
4,756
I'm talking specifically about speed at the position. The talking heads are cherry picking. On a whole our separation was terrible. Noah and Gallup were 120th in separation. CD wasn't even top 25. That looks like a scheme problem to me, although Cooper finished 11th.
But schematic issues aren't rectified by speed. If you want a long threat or YAC then speed's your king, however, an elite route runner creates separation by the sharp execution of his movements and appreciation of the route options.

Hilton wasnt particularly quick, but got open.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CWR

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,399
Reaction score
22,790
But schematic issues aren't rectified by speed. If you want a long threat or YAC then speed's your king, however, an elite route runner creates separation by the sharp execution of his movements and appreciation of the route options.

Hilton wasnt particularly quick, but got open.

I don't know how it is that people who watch the NFL on a regular basis don't get that just being fast accomplishes nothing in the NFL. Tyreke was pretty much just a punt returner until he learned to run routes, read coverages and function within the framework of the offense. Damn never every corner in the NFL is stupid fast so just being fast won't get you open against them.
 

Havic

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,376
Reaction score
8,706
The spotlight was too much for him to handle. He had zero confidence and looked lost. Not going to succeed in any situation that way. Know the playbook, know what routes to run, and trust in your ability
 

Rayman70

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,104
Reaction score
34,029
It is, but just watching him. Just looks like the games to big for him. Small school kid doesn't have the confidence. And I'm sorry but his routes are lazy. I actually think they've already moved on from him.
anything he gives us will be gravy. I'm sure we can draft a wr.sign a guy and still see what we have with him. This year will be his final chance. I'm just not real impressed with Michael Gallup. He's been up and down his entire career. Flashes here and there, but never real consistent. I am hoping a guy can beat him out.
 

Blast From The Past

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,890
Reaction score
2,456
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
He probably was a big fish in a small pond in college and became a small fish in a big pond in the nfl. Hopefully he can reverse that trend and go on and be successful. Pulling for the youngster for sure.
 

CWR

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,249
Reaction score
36,818
But schematic issues aren't rectified by speed. If you want a long threat or YAC then speed's your king, however, an elite route runner creates separation by the sharp execution of his movements and appreciation of the route options.

Hilton wasnt particularly quick, but got open.

The scheme is changing and yes with wco I want speed and yac.
 
Top