Nate Newton: "When you fall back 50 times you let the defense punch you 50 times"

[Haimerej]

I like that take.

I don't like running from shotgun. We do it a lot because we don't pass enough from under center. When Dak is under center it's a run or playaction. If he could start taking 5-7 step drops from under center it would really help the running game. They're too predictable from that look.

That's my first post RonnieT24. "5-7 step drops from under center." Dude responded to me and we've been saying the same thing. This is known that we don't use that stuff anymore.

 

[SpaceCowboy99]

Nate Newton is a moron. I listen to him often on local dfw stations and whenever he is on just because. He is not the case of ex player = lots of knowledge. He is just not a smart guy.

Take anything he spouts with a grain salt.

 

[khiladi]

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...lling-snap-analysis-2019-season-dak-prescott/


Even though teams have traditionally moved away from it, because of how college offenses have taken over the NFL, Dak is low on that bar even for these QBs. Dak isn’t even on the same level as Goff in this respect.

One of the things that stands out the most is that Prescott only threw the ball 30 times after dropping back from under center (he also attempted 90 play-action passes from that formation). A fair number of those 30 passes did not even require an actual drop back from center: some of them were quick screens thrown immediately after the snap.

A mere 17.7% of the passing plays called by Moore came when Prescott started under center (120 of 677), with 90 of those pass attempts coming off play-action.

Prescott attempted to execute a three-step, five-step, or seven-step drop on average of less than twice a game in 2019. That basic ratio has been true for every year that Prescott has been in the NFL.

I took a lot of criticism earlier in the year when I suggested Prescott’s inability to take a snap from under center and then drop back and deliver a well-timed and properly-placed pass was a limitation, but it is hard to avoid the fact he only attempted 30 passes all year when dropping back from under center.

 

[Haimerej]

My mistake.. he stated that "we are in shotgun all the time" which I extrapolated to mean that the formation he was claiming Dak to "not shown any sustained ability to throw from was under center."

Fine .. I will bow to your knowledge if you can help me understand this.. Where is the QB if he is not in shotgun in your universe?

So going back to my first post-

Not having a traditional passing game from under center is limiting. You can run different routes than the limited routes in playaction, i.e. quicker routes. It also brings in a helpful timing element. The amount of steps is like a timer for the QB to read the field and decide. They're also tied in with the routes, so that breaks are being made as that last step is hit. Montana was a master. Brady is great. Brees was awesome.

It's not a universal thing, either. Not all teams do it and mostly that's because of their QBs. But it would add something defenses have to think about when Dak is under center other than run or playaction.

 

[johneric8]

Nice positive post.

Here is the thing, it's easy to suggest the sky is falling after losing again in the first round, but the bottom line is this is year three for Mike and you almost can't count his first year... There is definitely a chance for us to improve and do better. I really think many of our problems is in player personal, and I don't buy into the narrative that were the most talented team in the league.. Maybe on paper but not in reality because so many are living off past reputations...

We're all going to watch this team again, and we're all going to get excited again during the draft, so why not allow a little positivity in? I mean, sure we can fail and then regress and that would be the end of Big Mike, but we can also get better, and there is one thing I know about Big Mike is he understands how to delegate and improve on weaknesses.. I personally believe there is a reason to have some hope for improvements. I don't think anyone before this season started had us going to the super bowl and most didn't even have us making the playoffs.. The Cows got us excited at the start of the season but weaknesses were too hard to overcome. Lets see how this all shakes out..

Remember, the stench of Garrett is real...

 

[ESisback]

.... you let the defense punch the line in the mouth 50 times"

Listening to Nate on HWTB podcast and he echoed a lot of what I have been saying about our offense specifically with regard to the pass/run ratio and the blocking schemes. He reiterated that our guys are too good a players to keep looking this bad. Basically stating that the blocking schemes are too passive and gives the defensive front all the advantage even in the run game because we stand up and absorb the hit even on running plays for the most part. I get the theory behind it.. You try to make all the plays look the same so as not to tip things to the defense.. but guess what.. the goal of the defensive line is to stalemate the offensive line and find the ball. If you stand up and don't drive them they can go find the ball without exerting a lot of energy.. and when they see it's a pass they can go hunt your QB. When they see it's run, unless they are complete chumps they are already in position to make the tackle... or the backside guy who just threw your tight end out of the way will.

Even the toughest guy on the block will eventually get knocked out if you let the other guy punch him over and over without letting him punch back. This team needs to get back to punching the defense in the mouth.. Period..

EXACTLY! We need a new OL Coach!

 

[Haimerej]

EXACTLY! We need a new OL Coach!

I'm not against that. I'm just hoping adjusting our philosophy is possible. Rodgers eventually started handing off to Jones under McCarthy, IIRC.

 

[4lifecowboy]

The guy was arrested for transporting drugs....I have ZERO respect for him..

2001?? Twenty years ago, wasn't time served? Wasn't it Marijuana? Zero respect? Forget every thing else he has done with the rest of his life,

 

[RonnieT24]

That's my first post RonnieT24. "5-7 step drops from under center." Dude responded to me and we've been saying the same thing. This is known that we don't use that stuff anymore.

I guess my contention would be that this offense has never done much more than 20% of its passing out of under center unless it was play action. Just for grins I looked up Romo's last full season as a starter and he had 79 of 436 pass attempts from under center. That's actually a lower percentage (19.4%) from what we see with Dak.. Dak was 120 of 504 this season or 23.8%. So I must be missing something..

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The guy was arrested for transporting drugs....I have ZERO respect for him..

Marijuna....its legal now and he can have a shop....times change

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I didn't even read it.....I have no respect for drug dealers...

technically, Pharmacists are drug dealers... just sayin

 

[Haimerej]

I guess my contention would be that this offense has never done much more than 20% of its passing out of under center unless it was play action. Just for grins I looked up Romo's last full season as a starter and he had 79 of 436 pass attempts from under center. That's actually a lower percentage (19.4%) from what we see with Dak.. Dak was 120 of 504 this season or 23.8%. So I must be missing something..

I just like it. I think it's a good element to have in your offense. It helps get defenses out of single high looks when we're lining up under center. I thought we were talking about solutions.

 

[75boyz]

We all get to listen to whichever "expert" we choose.. But if rings are the criteria we use to elevate their opinions.. then 3 > 1.. right?

I'll go with Jimmy then.

 

[RonnieT24]

I just like it. I think it's a good element to have in your offense. It helps get defenses out of single high looks when we're lining up under center. I thought we were talking about solutions.

Well my solution aligns with Nate's which is get back to smash mouth football, stick with the run and s***can the zone blocking scheme and let the guys fire out and hit people instead of being hit 50 times a game. I just think the assertion that we "took the under center passing game out of the playbook because of Dak" is patently false. At this point he does it more than Romo did.. So unless Romo was ALSO bad at it, that's not the problem. At least not a big part, so to me it's not a big part of the solution.

edit: I ALSO hate running out of shotgun too.. and have railed against it from the day Garrett started featuring it.

 

[RonnieT24]

I'll go with Jimmy then.

Knock yerself out. I bet Jimmy would run the ball a helluva lot more than Moore did too..

 

[Ranching]

2001?? Twenty years ago, wasn't time served? Wasn't it Marijuana? Zero respect? Forget every thing else he has done with the rest of his life,

Yep

 

[Ranching]

technically, Pharmacists are drug dealers... just sayin

It wasn't legal when he did it....zero respect

 

[4lifecowboy]

It wasn't legal when he did it....zero respect

Ever drove a car after a couple of drinks? Ever? 20 years ago?

 

[Haimerej]

Well my solution aligns with Nate's which is get back to smash mouth football, stick with the run and s***can the zone blocking scheme and let the guys fire out and hit people instead of being hit 50 times a game. I just think the assertion that we "took the under center passing game out of the playbook because of Dak" is patently false. At this point he does it more than Romo did.. So unless Romo was ALSO bad at it, that's not the problem. At least not a big part, so to me it's not a big part of the solution.

edit: I ALSO hate running out of shotgun too.. and have railed against it from the day Garrett started featuring it.

Part of why the run game struggles is because they don't run traditional passing plays from under center. That's just a fact. Again, you're equating what we're talking about with what they currently do under center when you're bringing up Romo's numbers, which are irrelevant to the discussion.

It's more than just running from a traditional set as opposed to shotgun. Over 90% of the time they line up under center it's a run or playaction. You bring up predictability a lot. That's probably the most predictable thing about the offense.

 

[5Stars]

.... you let the defense punch the line in the mouth 50 times"

Listening to Nate on HWTB podcast and he echoed a lot of what I have been saying about our offense specifically with regard to the pass/run ratio and the blocking schemes. He reiterated that our guys are too good a players to keep looking this bad. Basically stating that the blocking schemes are too passive and gives the defensive front all the advantage even in the run game because we stand up and absorb the hit even on running plays for the most part. I get the theory behind it.. You try to make all the plays look the same so as not to tip things to the defense.. but guess what.. the goal of the defensive line is to stalemate the offensive line and find the ball. If you stand up and don't drive them they can go find the ball without exerting a lot of energy.. and when they see it's a pass they can go hunt your QB. When they see it's run, unless they are complete chumps they are already in position to make the tackle... or the backside guy who just threw your tight end out of the way will.

Even the toughest guy on the block will eventually get knocked out if you let the other guy punch him over and over without letting him punch back. This team needs to get back to punching the defense in the mouth.. Period..

Totally right if I read what you are saying. Technique from the offense...instead of backing up to anticipate the rush they should fire into the defense...low and hard, right? When the offense stands up, they know it's a pass. Like Stepnoski the center was not big but strong and bull rushed the defense all the time, run or pass, then the defense did not know just what to do. They need to start taking it do the defense and on every play, pass or run.