NBA Draft

darthseinfeld

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tough call imho.
thats a boatload.
porzi is a star to build around.
the kind of top of the roster player everyone in the league truly wants.
most lottery picks turn into roster filler.
boston is loaded with assets and at some point they'll have more assets than seats.
but if you make that trade you gotta know porz is your guy going forward.
he's the new face of the franchise and the team starts being built around him.

im not a celts fan but would trust ainge running my team anyway.
Im curious to see what they do in FA. There has been alot of talk about Hayward, but I think Griffin may be a better fit with what they have on hand. I think over the next couple of years is going the phase Crowder off the roster. I can see them moving Crowder for another glue type role player down the line at some point. Maybe a rim protector. I think you will see an uptick in Browns minutes this year. Anywhere from 20 to 25. Depending on how well he does with them could have them moving Crowder. I could see Tatums minutes fluctuating. I think he will get some burn as a second team scorer, and he is more developed then Brown was so he will probably get more minutes. But probably less then 20 minutes a game on average. You can find them minutes with Hayward, but I think your team flows better with Griffin. The pick amount is excessive. I think next offseason you could see a move. Depending on the fate of the Lakers pick, you could see a package for Porzingis when his price may have dropped. Or depending in there draft position you may see them trade up to get that last peice lf a young nucleus and slowly interegrate him into the lineup
 

DFWJC

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Trying desperately to sell those season tickets to a fanbase that is about to bail as soon as Dirk retires. GMs and coaches are such politicians at times.
It was a great pick though. They had looked into maybe trading up to get him but the cost was high, plus rumblings were there that the Knicks might not take him.

I dont think Carlisle is lying.
 

JoeyBoy718

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It was a great pick though. They had looked into maybe trading up to get him but the cost was high, plus rumblings were there that the Knicks might not take him.

I dont think Carlisle is lying.

Rumor was the Celtics wanted him. They tried to trade for the 7th pick to get him.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Well, I will tell you what I hate to see. I hate to see 16 Freshman taken and only two Seniors in the first round. That just lends itself to the practice of taking guys way to early IMO. I know that some guys are ready and that they should be allowed to play in the NBA but most are not and they end up washing out. To me, something needs to be done there. Another year or two and a lot of those guys come into the league much better prepared to make the NBA.

JMO
 

jterrell

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Well, I will tell you what I hate to see. I hate to see 16 Freshman taken and only two Seniors in the first round. That just lends itself to the practice of taking guys way to early IMO. I know that some guys are ready and that they should be allowed to play in the NBA but most are not and they end up washing out. To me, something needs to be done there. Another year or two and a lot of those guys come into the league much better prepared to make the NBA.

JMO
unfortunately you can't teach teams to not outsmart themselves.
most folks saw what draymond green was as an upper classman at msu.
he was not very quick, couldn't jump but had every possible skill, knew how to compete and had an nba body... went round 2.

if they do anything it looks like they'll remove the mandatory 1 year in college.
so it might well get worse before teams smarten up.

i'm not sure how important it is to grab 4 or 5 of these kids. they are too young to win much and they end up free agents pretty quickly.
i've been a fan of teams grabbing these guys after year 4 or 5.
dallas has done well with harrison barnes and nerlens noel.
they arent gonna scare gsw or anything but that beats losing 60 games to pick another 19 year old.

my pet peeve is essentially everyone believing it's better to win 20 games than 50 and lose in round 2.
as if those 30 extra wins and even winning a playoff series mean nothing.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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unfortunately you can't teach teams to not outsmart themselves.
most folks saw what draymond green was as an upper classman at msu.
he was not very quick, couldn't jump but had every possible skill, knew how to compete and had an nba body... went round 2.

if they do anything it looks like they'll remove the mandatory 1 year in college.
so it might well get worse before teams smarten up.

i'm not sure how important it is to grab 4 or 5 of these kids. they are too young to win much and they end up free agents pretty quickly.
i've been a fan of teams grabbing these guys after year 4 or 5.
dallas has done well with harrison barnes and nerlens noel.
they arent gonna scare gsw or anything but that beats losing 60 games to pick another 19 year old.

my pet peeve is essentially everyone believing it's better to win 20 games than 50 and lose in round 2.
as if those 30 extra wins and even winning a playoff series mean nothing.

I agree with almost all of what you say here JT. I mean, building is never easy and if you want to do it right, then you gotta do it from the foundation. Makes little sense to me to bet on players who haven't even finished establishing what the foundation of their own game is. That's just me.
 

JoeyBoy718

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unfortunately you can't teach teams to not outsmart themselves.
most folks saw what draymond green was as an upper classman at msu.
he was not very quick, couldn't jump but had every possible skill, knew how to compete and had an nba body... went round 2.

if they do anything it looks like they'll remove the mandatory 1 year in college.
so it might well get worse before teams smarten up.

i'm not sure how important it is to grab 4 or 5 of these kids. they are too young to win much and they end up free agents pretty quickly.
i've been a fan of teams grabbing these guys after year 4 or 5.
dallas has done well with harrison barnes and nerlens noel.
they arent gonna scare gsw or anything but that beats losing 60 games to pick another 19 year old.

my pet peeve is essentially everyone believing it's better to win 20 games than 50 and lose in round 2.
as if those 30 extra wins and even winning a playoff series mean nothing.

The NBA is weird. It's a superstar league. A 50-win team is potentially one superstar away. Now, if they're attractive enough to a superstar is another question. A 20-win team is a long ways away. Even if they get lucky enough to land a generational talent, they'd still be a fringe playoff team. But they're more likely to be a 20-win team the following year and end up like these teams we see (Philly, Minny, LA) that have multiple consecutive top picks and still don't improve. Their best hope is to package some of those top picks to get a proven star.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I really like the Kings Draft.

Fox is probably the best Athlete at PG in a very deep PG Draft. He's coming into the league as one of the quickest PGs right off the bat. If you want to push the ball, he can do it. Needs to get bigger, needs to develop his 3 a bit better but that guy can make your offense go.

Jackson can run the floor, play defense, he can slash and score, he can shoot the 3 or mid range, he can shoot from different platforms, he can slash, smart kid. He needs to get bigger but he has skills.

Giles, if he can stay healthy is talented beyond belief. He could have been the best player in this draft had he stayed healthy.

Mason in the second is a steal to me. I really like there draft.
 
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I am happy with my Magic's draft picks but trading #25 and #35 for Net's 2019 2nd rounder and Thunder 2020 first rounder was idiotic
 

Risen Star

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The NBA is weird. It's a superstar league. A 50-win team is potentially one superstar away. Now, if they're attractive enough to a superstar is another question. A 20-win team is a long ways away. Even if they get lucky enough to land a generational talent, they'd still be a fringe playoff team. But they're more likely to be a 20-win team the following year and end up like these teams we see (Philly, Minny, LA) that have multiple consecutive top picks and still don't improve. Their best hope is to package some of those top picks to get a proven star.

I'm guessing the Sixers actually need their top picks to play before they can improve.

Btw, they went from 10 to 28 wins with just Embiid for 30 games.

I couldn't disagree more with your post.
 

Biggems

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Philadelphia, year after year, has like 2-3 firsts and 2-3 2nds, and they still continue to suck. Most of those firsts have been in the top 5-10. Meanwhile the really good teams have to consistently find diamonds in a pile of feces at the end of the first and in the 2nd.

I do think the Sixers finally got an all around quality draft. Not only did they get their future PG, but they got their future big to play next to Embiid. I wanted the Spurs to get the big Latvian, but to no avail.
 

jterrell

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I really like the Kings Draft.

Fox is probably the best Athlete at PG in a very deep PG Draft. He's coming into the league as one of the quickest PGs right off the bat. If you want to push the ball, he can do it. Needs to get bigger, needs to develop his 3 a bit better but that guy can make your offense go.

Jackson can run the floor, play defense, he can slash and score, he can shoot the 3 or mid range, he can shoot from different platforms, he can slash, smart kid. He needs to get bigger but he has skills.

Giles, if he can stay healthy is talented beyond belief. He could have been the best player in this draft had he stayed healthy.

Mason in the second is a steal to me. I really like there draft.
Kings grabbed a lot of talent and I love Fox but again, how does anyone maximize having 4 young rookies like this.
Tough to see them do anything but trade Boogie and try to tank while playing kids.
 

jterrell

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I am happy with my Magic's draft picks but trading #25 and #35 for Net's 2019 2nd rounder and Thunder 2020 first rounder was idiotic
they are basically gambling that russ leaves. if they were a top 5/6 team in the East this would make more sense.
 

Silver Surfer

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Well, I will tell you what I hate to see. I hate to see 16 Freshman taken and only two Seniors in the first round. That just lends itself to the practice of taking guys way to early IMO. I know that some guys are ready and that they should be allowed to play in the NBA but most are not and they end up washing out. To me, something needs to be done there. Another year or two and a lot of those guys come into the league much better prepared to make the NBA.

JMO

Have to disagree. You're basically saying that an 18 yr old person, who is considered in an adult in every state in which the NBA plays (47 states), can not attempt to make a living playing basketball in the NBA. I think that would make a very interesting class-action lawsuit against the NBA for restraint of trade.

From the players' perspective, there's incredible pressure on them to come out for any number of reasons. Many times its the potential to make life-changing money; and they're encouraged (pushed) by agents or prospective agents, family members, or friends who are looking to gain from the prospects' potential earnings.

If an NBA team thinks a player isn't ready but wants to have them on their roster, they should draft him (if he's available) and put him on their developmental league team. I think they should start drafting these guys late or as free agents and sign them to play in the NBDL at low salaries. Maybe they could implement a salary structure for high school players. That might slow the flow. The problem is, the teams don't have the discipline to stop themselves. With the success of guys like LeBron, Kobe, KG, Dwight Howard, Moses Malone and others, most teams are willing to take the chance on some high school phenom. If the kid doesn't work out, its on to the next one.
 

PJTHEDOORS

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I would've done it. You need stars in this league. Crowder is a role player, and there's no guarantee those picks and Brown would've turned out to be anything more. Porzingis is a freak and a guy you can build around. He would also make it tempting for Hawyward to sign. Boston would have the best starting 5 in the East and be the closest team with a chance to knock of Golden State.

Not that close. lol.
 

Vintage

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Some thoughts:

Winners to me are Dallas and Minnesota. Dallas got incredible value in Smith. He has his issues, but he is a guy you generally arent getting outside the top 5. Minnesota got a guy that is 1) Probably going want to stay there as long as Thib is coaching 2) Probably gets that team into the playoffs and provides a breakthrough for the Wiggins/KAT. 3) Improved Minnesota's chances of retaining Wiggins and KAT when they are eligible for FA.

Loser to me is Chicago IMO. To me that is not a good haul. I think Markkanen has the most bust potential in the top 10. Levine is an interesting young player, but that knee injury could really slow his development. Kris Dunn was the most disappointing top 5 pick from 2016, and as a 22 year old rookie he may just not be a quality NBA talent

They weren't going to get equal value for Butler. In fact, if reports are true, the rest of the offers were worse.

Levine has made great strides and is now a capable outside shooter, which the Bulls sorely lacked. Dunn was horrible last year. Bit rookie PGs rarely cone in and light things up. I'm not as high on him as a prospect as I was a year ago, but I'm not completely writing him off. At worst, he's still be NBA caliber as a defender.

Ironically, the Bulls have 3 PGs on their roster that they were extremely high on entering their respective drafts. Payne, Dunn, and Grant. Payne looks nothing like an NBA talent. Dunn was bad, but in a different situation where he can perhaps be more of a scorer, there is some hope. Grant looks like a rotational piece, despite his horrific playoff performance. A bunch of question marks.

As for Markkanen, I don't see nearly as much bust potential as you. He's got such a quick release and is already an excellent shooter. Can drive. Has good understanding of offensive spacing. The giant question mark is on defense.

If I were the Bulls, I would develop his post game. Force teams to decide to put a smaller to defender on him to handle him on the perimeter, and he takes them inside.... Or have a big try to follow him around on the perimeter.

At worse, he's going to be a useful offensive piece. I don't see a bust. But I wonder if he can develop enough defensively to make him a cornerstone piece.

That being said, I didn't think GarPax had the balls to blow this up and start over. They did. I'll give them credit for that. But they need to overhaul the front office and coaching staff after this season.
 

darthseinfeld

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They weren't going to get equal value for Butler. In fact, if reports are true, the rest of the offers were worse.

Levine has made great strides and is now a capable outside shooter, which the Bulls sorely lacked. Dunn was horrible last year. Bit rookie PGs rarely cone in and light things up. I'm not as high on him as a prospect as I was a year ago, but I'm not completely writing him off. At worst, he's still be NBA caliber as a defender.

Ironically, the Bulls have 3 PGs on their roster that they were extremely high on entering their respective drafts. Payne, Dunn, and Grant. Payne looks nothing like an NBA talent. Dunn was bad, but in a different situation where he can perhaps be more of a scorer, there is some hope. Grant looks like a rotational piece, despite his horrific playoff performance. A bunch of question marks.

As for Markkanen, I don't see nearly as much bust potential as you. He's got such a quick release and is already an excellent shooter. Can drive. Has good understanding of offensive spacing. The giant question mark is on defense.

If I were the Bulls, I would develop his post game. Force teams to decide to put a smaller to defender on him to handle him on the perimeter, and he takes them inside.... Or have a big try to follow him around on the perimeter.

At worse, he's going to be a useful offensive piece. I don't see a bust. But I wonder if he can develop enough defensively to make him a cornerstone piece.

That being said, I didn't think GarPax had the balls to blow this up and start over. They did. I'll give them credit for that. But they need to overhaul the front office and coaching staff after this season.
I think I heard on the telecast someone mention "stretch 5" in reference to Markkanen. Would be interesting. Shooting bigs to me are alot like drafting QB's in the NFL. Alot dont work out, but that doesnt mean you dont draft them because when you hit you hit big.

To me the big question that will awnser if you got value on this deal is how Levine bounces back. He has potential as a catalytic offensive player. Its not microfracture, so it shouldnt be a long term detriment.

With Dunn, I think they would been better off getting future assets even if you are talking about late first rounders. Give yourself some capital for maneuverability during a rebuild. Dunn could be a good defensive 3rd guard who wont be an offensive hinderance if he gets his offense going. But there is also a good chance he is a flat out bust, and not on team by then of the year
 

Vintage

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I think I heard on the telecast someone mention "stretch 5" in reference to Markkanen. Would be interesting. Shooting bigs to me are alot like drafting QB's in the NFL. Alot dont work out, but that doesnt mean you dont draft them because when you hit you hit big.

To me the big question that will awnser if you got value on this deal is how Levine bounces back. He has potential as a catalytic offensive player. Its not microfracture, so it shouldnt be a long term detriment.

With Dunn, I think they would been better off getting future assets even if you are talking about late first rounders. Give yourself some capital for maneuverability during a rebuild. Dunn could be a good defensive 3rd guard who wont be an offensive hinderance if he gets his offense going. But there is also a good chance he is a flat out bust, and not on team by then of the year

Yeah, I am in agreement with you about Markkenan long term as an offensive five. I think his ability to draw opposing big men away from the basketball poses some interesting matchup problems. He's highly skilled on the offensive end.

But then he has to play with a rugged four with size and rim protection capabilities, because he won't provide that.

But for next year, with Lopez on the team, he'll likely play as a 4. Next year's draft has size capable of playing alongside him. Also, Luka as well.... Who... I'm also high on.

Dunn can still be a quality starter. He just has to be in a lineup with shooters. He isn't going to mesh with Wade well due to spacing issues, unless the Bulls go inverse on offense for certain chunks of time with Mirotic and Markennan on the court to provide spacing, then Dunn can drive.

Dunn is a driver, slasher. He is probably already better than Rose in his passing off of drives, his ability to locate teammates off of drives, and interior passing off of drives. That isn't to say he will be as good as Rose one was... But he does do some things better. Certainly, a better defender. So, while I don't think Dunn will ever be an elite player, I think he can prove to be an elite defender, effective at driving and kicking out, and develop into a qulity starter. Obviously, he has a ways to go in that regard. But there are tools there.

Complete agreement with Levine. Bulls will have much better spacing with him next to Dunn. His defense needs major work, but then again, if he was a complete player... He likely isn't part of any deal.

Not a great haul. But they were never going to improve by trading Butler. The point was to tear it down and rebuild around youth and picks.

Not annoyed with what they did, it had to be done, and admittedly I did not think they would do it.... But I am annoyed they had to include the 16th pick.... And annoyed they sold the 38th pick.

The front office has been mistake laden the past several years. They have a history of hanging onto players too long and not being able to get any return on them. I figured Butler would be another along the lines of Taj, Gordon, Deng, etc.

The offers were only going to get worse as the trade deadline approached and Butler was only under contract for one more additional year.
 
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