NBA Free Agency

bounce

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bounce: i owe you an apology on the +/- numbers. you are correct. mea culpa.
--basketball reference lists the game +/- for some reason on the players per game stat line.


as to minutes: leonard is 23 years old. he doesn't need to play sub 30 mpg. that isn't about minute mgmt.
parker, duncan, ginobli is about minute mgmt.
again no legit stat excuses for leonard at all.
he is what he is and he was never a primary weapon in the offense until the miami series.
but he is still a heck of a player.
i expect his mpg to rise this year by 5 or so.

No worries. I had to go back and see if I was missing something. I know he had some bad games (5 TO, 4 TO) but I didn't think he was that low in +/-. For the minutes thing, that's just the Spurs system. They watch the minutes, and players stay fresh, regardless of age. I know Kawhi could play more at 23 - but because he didn't, he hasn't hit that rookie/2nd/3rd year wall. There was one stat during the season where, in minutes alone, the Spurs starters had played like 16 less GAMES than the Pacers starters. That's ridiculous. The funny thing is, you and I both like both players. I like Parsons a lot. I think he was just overpaid - but I also think that was by design. Cuban designed a contract that would trash the Rockets space if they matched, and also included a 15% trade kicker which would handicap them. So, they overpaid by a bit, because its a win-win. They either get a hell of a player or ruin an in-state rival.
 

Rockport

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Congrats to the Spurs!

Now, since this a Free Agency thread, could we please discuss that topic?

I really like the Spurs FA signings. Getting Patty Mills and Boris Diaw is HUGE. They also signed Bonner, but he needs to get out of his funk. He had a bad year.
 

JoeyBoy718

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Cleveland is going to be fine with James, but you need SOMEbody as a big. Thompson/Varejao aren't going to be enough to do anything, I don't care how good James plays. Bigs will eat them alive in the playoffs. All bets are off if Love goes to Cleveland, though. That will be a fun team to watch.

Yeah, I'm really curious to see what the Cavs do. They're situation is a little tricky. Bron and Wiggens are 10 years apart (19 and 29). Usually guys don't enter their prime until they're about 25. Even the rare superstars like Durant and Anthony Davis ("The Brow") don't start putting up elite numbers until about 23. But then players usually start to lose their athleticism by about 32. The highly skilled players like Kobe and Dirk can remain to put up big numbers until about 35 because they can rely on their skills. Then we have to look at the big IF factor. Wiggens is purely potential right now. His potential is the next LeBron (in which the likelihood is more on the low side). So, let's say Wiggens does become the next LeBron. By the time he reaches his prime, the real LeBron will probably be less of a factor (think Shaq in his twilight years). And for the next few years while LeBron is still in his prime, Wiggens probably won't be much of a factor.

I think Kyrie Irving makes the situation a little more interesting though. He's 22 and reaching his prime. This upcoming year might be the year he's one of the best PGs in the game. I never thought Irving would be a superstar or a guy to build around, but he'd make a heck of a #2 man. So he could be a great #2 man to pair alongside LeBron the next 4 years while Wiggens is still developing. And then by that time, when LeBron is regressing and Wiggens has reached his prime, Irving will only be about 26-27 and will still have another 4-5 years left in the tank to play at a high level. So Irving can sort of be the bridge between LeBron and Wiggens.

I think this could be an ideal situation. Sort of reminds me of the Indianapolis Colts, going from Peyton to Luck without losing a beat.

However, in this situation, a lot will still be on LeBron's shoulders. I don't think a team of a 22 year old Kyrie Irving and a 19 year old Andrew Wiggins is better than anything LeBron had in Miami. And as Kyrie becomes 23-24-25 and Andrew becomes 20-21-22 the team will start to be as good as, and eventually better than those Heat teams. And that's IF Wiggens becomes the next big superstar. If he's a bust or just another guy, then all bets are off.

Also, even though the Cavs (in the above scenario) can be good for a looooong time to come (counting the rest of LeBron's career and the rest of Wiggen's career), I think the city and team of Cleveland has a special kind of relationship with LeBron. I think they think they sort of owe LeBron (and I think LeBron thinks he owes Cleveland). So I think Cleveland finds the short term success (under LeBron's helm) to be more important than the long term success (under Wiggen's helm). In this case, I think you have to take the "easy way out" and trade Wiggens for Love. That'll give you a 25 year old Love already in his prime, and a 22 year old Irving reaching his prime, to pair with a 29 year old LeBron who maybe only has another 4-5 years in his prime. If you have to sacrifice the future of the franchise (Wiggens) to win in the next 4-5 years with hometown boy LeBron, I think you do it.
 

Rockport

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I don't get the Wade signing. 15 mill a season? He was a great player, but the emphasis is on was. Maybe he can remake his body and come back strong, but that will take a summer of extremely hard work.
 

jterrell

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joey---
Heat: Can't see them as being very good but I know others like them.
Don't see PG, SG, or C as anything but below average, SF and PF both slightly above avg. Granger hasn't played in two years and two teams have basically given up on him.

Love: Still think he ends up in CLE. Rox have nothing to trade for him. GSW in play but think CLE is top possiblity by far.

Chi: think they've improved a lot and should be fine overall. Rose a wildcard there but a solid playoff team without him.


For me after expected moves:
East:
1. CLE
2. INDY
3. CHI
4. WAS
5. MIA
6. TOR
7. BRK
8. CHA

West:
1. SAS
2. OKC
3. LAC
4. DAL
5. GSW
6. POR
7. HOU
8. MEM
 

jterrell

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Yeah, I'm really curious to see what the Cavs do. They're situation is a little tricky. Bron and Wiggens are 10 years apart (19 and 29). Usually guys don't enter their prime until they're about 25. Even the rare superstars like Durant and Anthony Davis ("The Brow") don't start putting up elite numbers until about 23. But then players usually start to lose their athleticism by about 32. The highly skilled players like Kobe and Dirk can remain to put up big numbers until about 35 because they can rely on their skills. Then we have to look at the big IF factor. Wiggens is purely potential right now. His potential is the next LeBron (in which the likelihood is more on the low side). So, let's say Wiggens does become the next LeBron. By the time he reaches his prime, the real LeBron will probably be less of a factor (think Shaq in his twilight years). And for the next few years while LeBron is still in his prime, Wiggens probably won't be much of a factor.

I think Kyrie Irving makes the situation a little more interesting though. He's 22 and reaching his prime. This upcoming year might be the year he's one of the best PGs in the game. I never thought Irving would be a superstar or a guy to build around, but he'd make a heck of a #2 man. So he could be a great #2 man to pair alongside LeBron the next 4 years while Wiggens is still developing. And then by that time, when LeBron is regressing and Wiggens has reached his prime, Irving will only be about 26-27 and will still have another 4-5 years left in the tank to play at a high level. So Irving can sort of be the bridge between LeBron and Wiggens.

I think this could be an ideal situation. Sort of reminds me of the Indianapolis Colts, going from Peyton to Luck without losing a beat.

However, in this situation, a lot will still be on LeBron's shoulders. I don't think a team of a 22 year old Kyrie Irving and a 19 year old Andrew Wiggins is better than anything LeBron had in Miami. And as Kyrie becomes 23-24-25 and Andrew becomes 20-21-22 the team will start to be as good as, and eventually better than those Heat teams. And that's IF Wiggens becomes the next big superstar. If he's a bust or just another guy, then all bets are off.

Also, even though the Cavs (in the above scenario) can be good for a looooong time to come (counting the rest of LeBron's career and the rest of Wiggen's career), I think the city and team of Cleveland has a special kind of relationship with LeBron. I think they think they sort of owe LeBron (and I think LeBron thinks he owes Cleveland). So I think Cleveland finds the short term success (under LeBron's helm) to be more important than the long term success (under Wiggen's helm). In this case, I think you have to take the "easy way out" and trade Wiggens for Love. That'll give you a 25 year old Love already in his prime, and a 22 year old Irving reaching his prime, to pair with a 29 year old LeBron who maybe only has another 4-5 years in his prime. If you have to sacrifice the future of the franchise (Wiggens) to win in the next 4-5 years with hometown boy LeBron, I think you do it.

The Cavs roster will absolutely look different in a month and probably wholly different by the trade deadline.
They have a ton of tradable young assets.
 

JoeyBoy718

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Cleveland signed Mike Miller for 2 years. He's strictly a SF. I really don't see them keeping Wiggens now. Especially since they also view last year's #1 overall Bennett as a SF.
 

Aggie87

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The Spurs are really, really good.

But they hardly win a title every year.
They do not have elite level talent across the board.
They obviously have enough to win and with the lack of big moves once the dust settled should return as the top overall seed.

The Spurs last year obviously were much like the 2011 Mavs.
They beat the Spurs in many of the same ways.
I applaud them for it.
But it will be tough to repeat with a core of again superstars and 1 of the 2 quality young players already out half the season.

I think you're shortchanging this team. Not only are they "really, really good", but they have THE BEST winning percentage in sports for the past 17 years. Which is when Tim Duncan started there. Not just the best in basketball, in ALL of the 4 major sports! I'd say that's more than "really, really good". They've also consistently made the playoffs in every single season that Duncan's been there. Have any other teams done that (I don't know the answer, so it's a sincere question)? They are the model of consistent excellence.

"Over the 17-year span [since Duncan arrived] San Antonio has posted a 950-396 regular season record, giving the team a winning percentage of .706, which is the best winning percentage in all of professional sports over that span and the best winning percentage over any 17-year span in NBA history."

That quote is from here: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/stor...tball/nba-duncan-opts-in-will-return-to-spurs
 

Silver Surfer

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Stein is reporting Nowitzki re-upped with the Mav's for 3yrs/$25M. That's not a typo.
 

JoeyBoy718

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I think you're shortchanging this team. Not only are they "really, really good", but they have THE BEST winning percentage in sports for the past 17 years. Which is when Tim Duncan started there. Not just the best in basketball, in ALL of the 4 major sports! I'd say that's more than "really, really good". They've also consistently made the playoffs in every single season that Duncan's been there. Have any other teams done that (I don't know the answer, so it's a sincere question)? They are the model of consistent excellence.

"Over the 17-year span [since Duncan arrived] San Antonio has posted a 950-396 regular season record, giving the team a winning percentage of .706, which is the best winning percentage in all of professional sports over that span and the best winning percentage over any 17-year span in NBA history."

That quote is from here: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/stor...tball/nba-duncan-opts-in-will-return-to-spurs

I'm not a Spurs fan but you gotta respect that organization. You also have to give a lot of credit to Duncan. I know Duncan came into the league with great players like Robinson, and I know he is coached by an all-time great in Pop, and I know he has hall-of-fame teammates like Tony and Manu, but c'mon, look at those stats you just posted. The one consistency through all of it has been Duncan. Not to take anything away from Robsinon, Pop, Tony and Manu, but the greatness started the second Duncan's soles touched the hardwood. And I'm not even really a Duncan fan, but you gotta respect the man.
 

JoeyBoy718

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Stein is reporting Nowitzki re-upped with the Mav's for 3yrs/$25M. That's not a typo.

I heard the Lakers offered him a lot more money and he turned it down for chump change (by NBA standards). If that doesn't spell loyalty, I don't know what does. Duncan and Dirk are the most loyal players I think I've ever seen, at least in the modern NBA.
 

TellerMorrow34

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I don't really understand this post at all. In the hay day of the 'Spurs, they were the big 3 of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker. I think the thing that bothers everybody is this idea that the Spurs are different then other teams. All teams are different but they are not that different. Whatever, congrats to the Spurs on winning. Enjoy it because I've a feeling it's going to be a lot tougher next time.

i dont know about gino but im pretty certain duncan and parker have always been spurs. Not like where the heat went out and got their guys from free agency. With the exception of wade. Thats why its different to me.

Now ill admit im not 100 percent certain bosh wasnt always with the heat cause i really dont remember but i seem to remember him coming in with Lebron to form the big three.
 

burmafrd

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LOL at the money paid to old players. Jerruh gets worked all the time for that yet you see it every day in the NBA.
 

BoysFan4ever

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I heard the Lakers offered him a lot more money and he turned it down for chump change (by NBA standards). If that doesn't spell loyalty, I don't know what does. Duncan and Dirk are the most loyal players I think I've ever seen, at least in the modern NBA.

Dirk is such a loyal Mavs guy. The very best thing about the championship team was that Dirk got to experience that.
 

Rockport

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Dirk is such a loyal Mavs guy. The very best thing about the championship team was that Dirk got to experience that.

Looks like Dirk got screwed this summer. I'm a Spurs fan but Dirk has always been a class act in my eyes. Hate to see him get raked over the coals on his salary.
I think you're shortchanging this team. Not only are they "really, really good", but they have THE BEST winning percentage in sports for the past 17 years. Which is when Tim Duncan started there. Not just the best in basketball, in ALL of the 4 major sports! I'd say that's more than "really, really good". They've also consistently made the playoffs in every single season that Duncan's been there. Have any other teams done that (I don't know the answer, so it's a sincere question)? They are the model of consistent excellence.

"Over the 17-year span [since Duncan arrived] San Antonio has posted a 950-396 regular season record, giving the team a winning percentage of .706, which is the best winning percentage in all of professional sports over that span and the best winning percentage over any 17-year span in NBA history."

That quote is from here: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/stor...tball/nba-duncan-opts-in-will-return-to-spurs

Very, very good = NBA Champions. I'll take that any year. jterrel is just a hater when it comes to the Spurs.
 

BoysFan4ever

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Looks like Dirk got screwed this summer. I'm a Spurs fan but Dirk has always been a class act in my eyes. Hate to see him get raked over the coals on his salary.


Very, very good = NBA Champions. I'll take that any year. jterrel is just a hater when it comes to the Spurs.

I guess Dirk feels like he's made so much money over the years that that isn't the most important thing anymore. He is a classy guy.
 

MC KAos

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Looks like Dirk got screwed this summer. I'm a Spurs fan but Dirk has always been a class act in my eyes. Hate to see him get raked over the coals on his salary.


Very, very good = NBA Champions. I'll take that any year. jterrel is just a hater when it comes to the Spurs.

I guess Dirk feels like he's made so much money over the years that that isn't the most important thing anymore. He is a classy guy.

Nah, he's getting taken care of when his career is over, jalen rose talked about it in a podcast recently. Mark Cuban will help him out post career. Dirk truly is MFFL now
 

Rockport

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Nah, he's getting taken care of when his career is over, jalen rose talked about it in a podcast recently. Mark Cuban will help him out post career. Dirk truly is MFFL now

That's good to know. Thanks.
 
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