NBA Free Agency

[bounce]

ROFL, simpleton, there are a ton of Parson Chandler videos for fanboys like you.

per 36 numbers are absolutely meaningless, almost as meaningless as youtube videos.
ESPECIALLY in the playoffs.
playing LESS minutes is certainly easier than playing more.

you have yet to present a salient fact of any sort that relates in any way to what I have stated.
bottom line was clear, parsons had better playoff stats than the NBA Finals MVP while being 25.
Is that as impressive as being a Finals MVP at 23? Nope.
Never said it was.
I said it was impressive and worth paying 15m a year, and it is.

If you want a deep dive into Kawhi we can do that.
But I am going to point to the Dallas series that we both watched every game of.

He played over 32 MPG versus Dallas and was pretty bad.
The opposing SG scored over 20PPG, and Kawhi shot poorly at 6 of 19 from 3 and only hitting 59% of his free throws for 11.9 PPG.
He wasnt a factor on defense at all, allowing 109 points per 100 possessions.
He had a lot of turnovers and a turnover percentage of 14%.
His overall game rating score was only 5th highest on the Spurs for that series.

Playing less minutes is certainly easier than playing more? As far as exhaustion? Ok, fine - but we're discussing stats. That stats were very similar when Kawhi played a quarter less a game. So, comparing their numbers and saying "Parsons had a higher PPG" is futile. Most players will have more PPG in more minutes.

The Dallas "SG that scored over 20PPG" shot 52-127 for 41% and a +/- of (-52). The points don't make a dang bit of difference, because if a guy takes 30 shots to get 30 points, that's not a good game. That's a terrible game.

Kawhi shot 32-65 (49%) and had a +/- of (+49).

Was the Spurs team bad against Dallas? For sure. Far worse than they were against the rest of the playoffs. But Dallas lit a fire under them in game 7, and the Spurs team you saw the rest of the playoffs was closer to the actual Spurs team. They had been coasting since February and Dallas was in playoff mode for weeks leading up to the season.

And to clarify, I don't think Parsons is bad at all. I'm not sure how it devolved to that. I don't like him going to Dallas, because I think Carlisle is a perfect coach for him, and CP historically has given the Spurs fits. I like the player, and I think it's a good signing. I just think he's a little overpaid (but will probably be underpaid in three years) and isn't all-star level. Is he a notch below it? In my opinion, yes - but all-stars are the top 8-10 G/F in a conference, and I'd probably put CP at the 12-15 range which isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination. I'd love him on the Spurs, I just like our SF better.

 

[bounce]

As an aside - Houston could have exercised an option and kept Parsons for $965,000. That's just stupid.

 

[WoodysGirl]

 

[burmafrd]

with as little as he had left in the tank by the finals, it amazes me how much money someone will pay him.

 

[WoodysGirl]

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I'm loving the hate shown toward the Spurs here by one or two posters. It's pretty clear they hate the great amount of success the Spurs manage to have without having to go out and bring in a circus by signing a big 3. They keep their own stars and add pieces around them and just win and win and win and win.

 

[WoodysGirl]

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm loving the hate shown toward the Spurs here by one or two posters. It's pretty clear they hate the great amount of success the Spurs manage to have without having to go out and bring in a circus by signing a big 3. They keep their own stars and add pieces around them and just win and win and win and win.

I don't really understand this post at all. In the hay day of the 'Spurs, they were the big 3 of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker. I think the thing that bothers everybody is this idea that the Spurs are different then other teams. All teams are different but they are not that different. Whatever, congrats to the Spurs on winning. Enjoy it because I've a feeling it's going to be a lot tougher next time.

 

[Rockport]

I don't really understand this post at all. In the hay day of the 'Spurs, they were the big 3 of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker. I think the thing that bothers everybody is this idea that the Spurs are different then other teams. All teams are different but they are not that different. Whatever, congrats to the Spurs on winning. Enjoy it because I've a feeling it's going to be a lot tougher next time.

The Spurs are different. The play basketball as a team like it hasn't been played since the Magic, Bird era. In this day and age, it's all about the Super Star. Pop and company don't play that game.

 

[burmafrd]

The Spurs are different. The play basketball as a team like it hasn't been played since the Magic, Bird era. In this day and age, it's all about the Super Star. Pop and company don't play that game.

wow you spurs homers are hilarious.

 

[bounce]

wow you spurs homers are hilarious.

You've contributed nothing. All you've spouted in numerous threads is "you spurs homers are hilarious," "...just to piss off spurs homers," "it's so much fun to watch spurs homers get pissed off..."

Feel free to join in with actual basketball thoughts, if they exist.

 

[jterrell]

Playing less minutes is certainly easier than playing more? As far as exhaustion? Ok, fine - but we're discussing stats. That stats were very similar when Kawhi played a quarter less a game. So, comparing their numbers and saying "Parsons had a higher PPG" is futile. Most players will have more PPG in more minutes.

The Dallas "SG that scored over 20PPG" shot 52-127 for 41% and a +/- of (-52). The points don't make a dang bit of difference, because if a guy takes 30 shots to get 30 points, that's not a good game. That's a terrible game.

Kawhi shot 32-65 (49%) and had a +/- of (+49).

Was the Spurs team bad against Dallas? For sure. Far worse than they were against the rest of the playoffs. But Dallas lit a fire under them in game 7, and the Spurs team you saw the rest of the playoffs was closer to the actual Spurs team. They had been coasting since February and Dallas was in playoff mode for weeks leading up to the season.

And to clarify, I don't think Parsons is bad at all. I'm not sure how it devolved to that. I don't like him going to Dallas, because I think Carlisle is a perfect coach for him, and CP historically has given the Spurs fits. I like the player, and I think it's a good signing. I just think he's a little overpaid (but will probably be underpaid in three years) and isn't all-star level. Is he a notch below it? In my opinion, yes - but all-stars are the top 8-10 G/F in a conference, and I'd probably put CP at the 12-15 range which isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination. I'd love him on the Spurs, I just like our SF better.

Kawhi didn't have a +49 anything versus Dallas.
He was +2 or 3 on the series and was well into double digit negatives before game 7.
Monta had a True shooting percentage over 50% and had various Spurs in foul trouble throughout the series.
Ellis averaged 18 FGA and scored over 20 PPG, that is not near terrible tho hardly efficient.


Kawhi wasn't good versus Dallas.
He was about the 5th best Spur (and was by wins above replacement) in a series they eeked out for an 8 seed.
He was much improved in some other series.

But again I never said CP was better than Leonard.
I compared them as young starting SF. The value of a young ascending starter.
That both made the playoffs and both started and both made Team USA.

They are both in an elite group of young players with upside and high value that also perform now for winning teams.
CP is a 3/4 and Kawhi is a 2/3. Very different guys with CP being a better outside shooter and floor spacer as a 6'9" player. Kawhi is 6'7" and a very good defender.
They'll both be long-time All-Star IMHO.

As to the minutes things lets not insult anyone's intelligence. It is painfully obvious why lower minutes is never an excuse for stats.
Demarcus Liggins averaged 72 points and 36 rebounds per minute last year....

Playing a lot of minutes is a plus not a minus.
Playing under 30 mpg is usually a negative or indication a player is aging.
In a small playoff sample it had a lot to do with blowouts.

 

[jterrell]

I don't really understand this post at all. In the hay day of the 'Spurs, they were the big 3 of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker. I think the thing that bothers everybody is this idea that the Spurs are different then other teams. All teams are different but they are not that different. Whatever, congrats to the Spurs on winning. Enjoy it because I've a feeling it's going to be a lot tougher next time.

I don't understand how failing to fall over worshiping them is "hate".
They are the best basketball franchise there is and they were far and away the best team last year.

The Mavs have emulated them in many ways including coaching emphasis and vet star taking less money.

The Spurs are really, really good.

But they hardly win a title every year.
They do not have elite level talent across the board.
They obviously have enough to win and with the lack of big moves once the dust settled should return as the top overall seed.

The Spurs last year obviously were much like the 2011 Mavs.
They beat the Spurs in many of the same ways.
I applaud them for it.
But it will be tough to repeat with a core of again superstars and 1 of the 2 quality young players already out half the season.

 

[speedkilz88]

Parsons is actually 6-10, I'm not sure why Houston listed his without shoes height.

 

[bounce]

Kawhi didn't have a +49 anything versus Dallas.
He was +2 or 3 on the series and was well into double digit negatives before game 7.
Monta had a True shooting percentage over 50% and had various Spurs in foul trouble throughout the series.
Ellis averaged 18 FGA and scored over 20 PPG, that is not near terrible tho hardly efficient..

Kawhi Leonard:

Game 1: +23
Game 2: -6
Game 3: -7
Game 4: +6
Game 5: +13
Game 6: +7
Game 7: +15

Total: +49

Playing a lot of minutes is a plus not a minus.
Playing under 30 mpg is usually a negative or indication a player is aging.
In a small playoff sample it had a lot to do with blowouts.

There wasn't a single player on the entire Spurs roster who averaged more than 30 MPG for the entire season. So, either all 82 games were blowouts, they're all aging, or they manage minutes well. The most anyone played on the Spurs was Parker at 29.4. In the playoffs, that number increased to a max of 32.7 - and only three guys (Parker, Duncan and Kawhi) were over 30 MPG.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Anyway, getting off this Spurs talk since they haven't made any moves and this is a free agency thread...

I think the Heat are building a nice little roster and they could still be one of the top 2-3 teams in the East. As always, it all comes down to the health of Dwyane Wade. People forget just how good he was before these past 3 seasons. The NBA was run by Kobe, LeBron and Wade. You also have Bosh, newly added Luol Deng, former All-Star Danny Granger, and underrated big man Josh McRoberts. Also, if Greg Oden can ever play like he was expected to when drafted, this could be a scary team.

I'm still not completely sold on the Cavs roster. The sky is the limit for Wiggens, but trading him for Love would make them immediate contenders. Do you bank on Wiggens' potential or trade him for an established star who will help LeBron win now?

And what the heck is going on in LA? Only guys on their roster are Kobe, Steve Nash, big man Sacre, newly re-signed Nick Young, and the two guys they just drafted. I love the Julius Randle pick. I think he was the best player in the draft (though I would've taken Wiggens based on upside). But who the heck is gonna be on the roster next year? I honestly have no idea if Steve Nash will ever play again. So who's the PG? Then you have Kobe coming back. I guess Nick Young will be the starting SF. I'm guessing Julius Randle will start at PF. They have no starting center. No bench. No more Pau.

I like what Chicago has done but I have no idea how Rose will look. Will he ever be the same? Noah and Pau is a nice front court. Doug McDermott could make an immediate impact as a rookie. He'll be like how Kyle Korver was when he played in Chicago. But they still need a few more pieces to contend.

Curious to see what Houston does. I think a lot rests on Kevin Love. If Cleveland doesn't trade Wiggens for Love, I see him going to Houston. They're also interested in Rondo. I think Rondo would be perfect in Houston but I'd take Love over Rondo. If they could somehow manage to get both (not sure if possible) they'd probably win the West.

As crazy as it sounds, I might still have the Heat as the best in the East. Like I said, Wiggens long-term will be great for the Cavs, but I don't see the Cavs as they best in the East if they don't trade him for Love. I also can't put the Bulls at the top spot because I don't know what Rose will be. And I think Indiana is imploding. They're shopping Hibbert, Stephenson might leave, and they really had major chemistry issues last year. I'm going out on a limb but I have the Heat winning the East at the moment. Just waiting to see what the Cavs do.

 

[bounce]

Anyway, getting off this Spurs talk since they haven't made any moves and this is a free agency thread...

I think the Heat are building a nice little roster and they could still be one of the top 2-3 teams in the East. As always, it all comes down to the health of Dwyane Wade. People forget just how good he was before these past 3 seasons. The NBA was run by Kobe, LeBron and Wade. You also have Bosh, newly added Luol Deng, former All-Star Danny Granger, and underrated big man Josh McRoberts. Also, if Greg Oden can ever play like he was expected to when drafted, this could be a scary team.

I'm still not completely sold on the Cavs roster. The sky is the limit for Wiggens, but trading him for Love would make them immediate contenders. Do you bank on Wiggens' potential or trade him for an established star who will help LeBron win now?

And what the heck is going on in LA? Only guys on their roster are Kobe, Steve Nash, big man Sacre, newly re-signed Nick Young, and the two guys they just drafted. I love the Julius Randle pick. I think he was the best player in the draft (though I would've taken Wiggens based on upside). But who the heck is gonna be on the roster next year? I honestly have no idea if Steve Nash will ever play again. So who's the PG? Then you have Kobe coming back. I guess Nick Young will be the starting SF. I'm guessing Julius Randle will start at PF. They have no starting center. No bench. No more Pau.

I like what Chicago has done but I have no idea how Rose will look. Will he ever be the same? Noah and Pau is a nice front court. Doug McDermott could make an immediate impact as a rookie. He'll be like how Kyle Korver was when he played in Chicago. But they still need a few more pieces to contend.

Curious to see what Houston does. I think a lot rests on Kevin Love. If Cleveland doesn't trade Wiggens for Love, I see him going to Houston. They're also interested in Rondo. I think Rondo would be perfect in Houston but I'd take Love over Rondo. If they could somehow manage to get both (not sure if possible) they'd probably win the West.

As crazy as it sounds, I might still have the Heat as the best in the East. Like I said, Wiggens long-term will be great for the Cavs, but I don't see the Cavs as they best in the East if they don't trade him for Love. I also can't put the Bulls at the top spot because I don't know what Rose will be. And I think Indiana is imploding. They're shopping Hibbert, Stephenson might leave, and they really had major chemistry issues last year. I'm going out on a limb but I have the Heat winning the East at the moment. Just waiting to see what the Cavs do.

The Heat are going to live and die by injuries. Wade broke down in the playoffs despite taking ~1/4 of the season off because James could carry the load. They don't have that luxury now. Deng isn't a bet to stay healthy, either. I think with Chicago (another health question), Indiana, Cleveland, Washington and Toronto - Miami is looking at a 6-8 seed AT BEST.

Agreed on Chicago, if Rose is healthy, that's a dangerous team. Thibs puts them in a good position each year, and if Rose is healthy, that has to be the East favorite. Indy is such a question mark.

Cleveland is going to be fine with James, but you need SOMEbody as a big. Thompson/Varejao aren't going to be enough to do anything, I don't care how good James plays. Bigs will eat them alive in the playoffs. All bets are off if Love goes to Cleveland, though. That will be a fun team to watch.

 

[jterrell]

bounce: i owe you an apology on the +/- numbers. you are correct. mea culpa.
--basketball reference lists the game +/- for some reason on the players per game stat line.


as to minutes: leonard is 23 years old. he doesn't need to play sub 30 mpg. that isn't about minute mgmt.
parker, duncan, ginobli is about minute mgmt.
again no legit stat excuses for leonard at all.
he is what he is and he was never a primary weapon in the offense until the miami series.
but he is still a heck of a player.
i expect his mpg to rise this year by 5 or so.

 

[Rockport]

wow you spurs homers are hilarious.

Why don't you just go away? All you do is cause trouble.

 

[DFWJC]

Congrats to the Spurs!

Now, since this a Free Agency thread, could we please discuss that topic?