NBA Off-season Moves (starting with my Mavs)

[RonSpringsdaman20]

And the Blazers continue to add to their stable of young, unproven, bouncy athletes.....
trading a second round pick to Orlando for the rights to Moe Harkless.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Andrea Bargnani takes less money (vet's minimum) to sign with the Nets over the Kings...
Smart in my opinion. He just came off of a big money season..... He has a player option for next year (in case he gets injured), the Nets front court isn't as crowded as the King's, and He showed he still can play the last 1/3rd of the season with the Knicks..... He will earn a solid contract next year if he stays healthy...

Pretty much seals the deal for Teletovic to leave... headed to Phoenix is the rumor...

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

No real thread to place this... but nice...

 

[jterrell]

Its only been two years... I'm not saying what will be... I'm just saying... its only been two years... so thats not much of an example.

Wasnt so much taking a shot at them as referencing the recent injury news on Embiid.
They drafted a class guy and hard worker but even then you get nothing after a full year of 20 win bball.

The draft is a low efficiency means to improve.

While I think it should be part of the equation you can't expect to build through the draft as a primary means in the current NBA model.

 

[jterrell]

Yea, if I was an NBA owner, I would trade any and all assets not on rookie deals if I didn't have a team that could compete for a conference championship. So while I wouldn't "tank," I wouldn't try very hard to win until I at least had a young core of players.

Obviously there would be exceptions, like when you have an Anthony Davis, but in his earlier years, I would have gutted the rest of the team for first round picks, as opposed to dealing picks for average players like Jrue Holliday

No, you likely wouldn't.
You still have to get to the salary cap floor and those types of teams lose money in a big way.

Being that bereft of talent is a good way to lose a team.
Ask Seattle. Tank-Draft KD, Russ, Harden, Ibaka... but lose the team and ultimately Harden for pennies on the dollar in value anyways.

There isn't truly a single tanking team that's won anything the last decade.
SAS: Last tanked 20 years ago. got very lucky in that 3rd worst team grabbed first selection and generational elite.
Mavs: Last tanked about 16 or 17 years ago. Got Dirk at 9th pick.
Heat: Last tanked forever ago and are building around basically zero draftees other than DWade.
CLE: Did quite a bit of tanking to get LeBron, had nothing other than him so lost him in free agency, tanked hardcore again... but threw that plan out the window and added LeBron then won.
GSW: Tanked hard under Nelson. Fair to middling since until they hit in free agency/trade on Igoudala. Bogut and Lee. Drafted very well with Klay, Draymond, SC, Barnes and do have a young nucleus of highly drafted guys as perhaps best and only example of the draft working. All that said, their highest draft pick is 6th: Harrison Barnes. Curry was 7th and Klay was 11th. Green 35th. No need to tank to draft guys in those spots. You can trade up to draft there.

Tanking is a VERY inefficient means of ever winning. No NBA player wants to play for a loser. You gotta depend on ping pong luck and hope it is a strong draft class.
Even if you draft a stud you gotta spend a few years developing that player. And if you don't immediately get that player help you could easily lose then in free agency. And of course about 15-20% of guys can't stay healthy when enduring the NBA grind.

Not a single guy in the last 20 years has won an NBA title as the star for his team on a rookie deal.

Bad teams need assets for sure and high draft picks are assets but the price you pay to draft high via losing is really costly to team image and chemistry.

This new CBA has taught teams that winning and basketball fit are the key selling points. These guys lives are lived 70% all basketball. The frivolities of cities are nearly meaningless in that light.

 

[bounce]

Bad teams need assets for sure and high draft picks are assets but the price you pay to draft high via losing is really costly to team image and chemistry.

This new CBA has taught teams that winning and basketball fit are the key selling points. These guys lives are lived 70% all basketball. The frivolities of cities are nearly meaningless in that light.

Not to mention that the "endorsement opportunities" of cities like LA or NY are pretty negated by the internet. Kevin Durant is getting as many endorsement opportunities in OKC as he would in NYC.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Not to mention that the "endorsement opportunities" of cities like LA or NY are pretty negated by the internet. Kevin Durant is getting as many endorsement opportunities in OKC as he would in NYC.

there are still some unique opportunities in the two largest markets.... but yes global economy, and the internet has pretty much closed most gaps...especially the important ones..

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Wasnt so much taking a shot at them as referencing the recent injury news on Embiid.
They drafted a class guy and hard worker but even then you get nothing after a full year of 20 win bball.

The draft is a low efficiency means to improve.

While I think it should be part of the equation you can't expect to build through the draft as a primary means in the current NBA model.

while i agree with most of this... the draft still yields most star players whom teams gain success with....
gs still had to draft steph, la kobe, bos pierce, miami wade, dal dirk, clev lebron, sa timmy.....etc.... they were also the main reason most stars came to join them.

 

[jterrell]

while i agree with most of this... the draft still yields most star players whom teams gain success with....
gs still had to draft steph, la kobe, bos pierce, miami wade, dal dirk, clev lebron, sa timmy.....etc.... they were also the main reason most stars came to join them.

lal and dal traded for those players during the draft but didn't really draft them. dal drafted tractor traylor then moved the fatty for dirk.
pierce came later in that same draft. olowakandi went 1st... to the clippers. your 76ers took larry hughes over dirk OR pierce.

kobe was pick 13 for charlotte and was traded to la for vlade divac. --dallas drafted samaki wlaker well ahead of kobe

only wade lebron and tim were top 5 picks of that distinguished list.
think about that for a second.
all those bad teams DIDN'T draft those guys.

but also note how long ago those thoughts are. this is a different era of the nba.
stars DO change teams now. and somewhat quickly.

the hornets have busted butt to get into the playoffs and in doing so they were rewarded with a long term deal with anthony davis.
had they not gotten there word was he was prepared to hold off on the extension.
so even if you win the lottery both literally and figuratively which is insanely low odds you gotta convince the guy to stay.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

lal and dal traded for those players during the draft but didn't really draft them. dal drafted tractor traylor then moved the fatty for dirk.
pierce came later in that same draft. olowakandi went 1st... to the clippers. your 76ers took larry hughes over dirk OR pierce.

kobe was pick 13 for charlotte and was traded to la for vlade divac. --dallas drafted samaki wlaker well ahead of kobe

only wade lebron and tim were top 5 picks of that distinguished list.
think about that for a second.
all those bad teams DIDN'T draft those guys.

but also note how long ago those thoughts are. this is a different era of the nba.
stars DO change teams now. and somewhat quickly.

the hornets have busted butt to get into the playoffs and in doing so they were rewarded with a long term deal with anthony davis.
had they not gotten there word was he was prepared to hold off on the extension.
so even if you win the lottery both literally and figuratively which is insanely low odds you gotta convince the guy to stay.

But they're still their picks, even though they traded for them in that draft.. we all know how that goes....
my point being, you need a developed star to build around... any other way is an exception... a la Pistons(2000's) or Sonics (70's)....
name a recent team who didn't have a star on their team that they drafted.... a franchise player.... that has won a championship recently... save the Pistons...


Anything else you speak of, I'm not debating... Hornets, tbc......

Responsible organizations make responsible moves... star players create longevity, and gives organizations someone to build around... and in this new era... someone to recruit...

 

[jterrell]

But they're still their picks, even though they traded for them in that draft.. we all know how that goes....
my point being, you need a developed star to build around... any other way is an exception... a la Pistons(2000's) or Sonics (70's)....
name a recent team who didn't have a star on their team that they drafted.... a franchise player.... that has won a championship recently... save the Pistons...


Anything else you speak of, I'm not debating... Hornets, tbc......

Responsible organizations make responsible moves... star players create longevity, and gives organizations someone to build around... and in this new era... someone to recruit...

If you are asking if any team is built solely through free agency, the answer is no.
Everyone has a draftee or 5 on their team. Usually on a playoff club 2 or 3 of those guys play and the others just wear suits or play D-League.

But even the Spurs now recognize this is a new era. This isn't even 2000 much less 1980.
Now you gotta recruit. CLE had 27% of it's minutes come from guys they drafted.
GSW was the only team that won a round 1 series that had over 50% of it's playing time come from draftees.

This is a year to year league right now and it is more recruiting and cap mgmt than anything else.

The draft will always matter because it is another asset but being good is more important than anything else as you try to attract assets.

Dallas and LAL traded for their future stars. That's not drafting them. They built around them for sure but without tanking or using high picks on them.

The point being, at the end of the day, every team has to scrap all the time to get better.
The better you are, the more chance you have of landing additional stars.
A lot like how it takes money to make money, nothing wins like winning.

Wiggins was the most coveted draftee in a decade and LeBron basically said *** that kid, get him gone.
Stars want to play with other ready-made men.
Even good draft picks really make mostly trade fodder.

Collecting diaper dandies currently only works in college.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

If you are asking if any team is built solely through free agency, the answer is no.
Everyone has a draftee or 5 on their team. Usually on a playoff club 2 or 3 of those guys play and the others just wear suits or play D-League.

But even the Spurs now recognize this is a new era. This isn't even 2000 much less 1980.
Now you gotta recruit. CLE had 27% of it's minutes come from guys they drafted.
GSW was the only team that won a round 1 series that had over 50% of it's playing time come from draftees.

This is a year to year league right now and it is more recruiting and cap mgmt than anything else.

The draft will always matter because it is another asset but being good is more important than anything else as you try to attract assets.

Dallas and LAL traded for their future stars. That's not drafting them. They built around them for sure but without tanking or using high picks on them.

The point being, at the end of the day, every team has to scrap all the time to get better.
The better you are, the more chance you have of landing additional stars.
A lot like how it takes money to make money, nothing wins like winning.

Wiggins was the most coveted draftee in a decade and LeBron basically said *** that kid, get him gone.
Stars want to play with other ready-made men.
Even good draft picks really make mostly trade fodder.

Collecting diaper dandies currently only works in college.

im not asking anything. I said one simple comment. And I will leave it. Almost every team that has won a championship in the modern era had a star player developed from the draft. Im done... I'm sure we agree on some things, and disagree on others...

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

and the guy who got houston past the clippers, sign with the clippers...

Josh Smith is a Clip...

The West is gonna be funnnnnnn!

 

[Manwiththeplan]

and the guy who got houston past the clippers, sign with the clippers...

Josh Smith is a Clip...

The West is gonna be funnnnnnn!

Yea, gonna be a nice three team race for the #1 seed in the west. Even San Antonio, who has in the best been willing to sacrifice regular season wins for rest, in preparation for the playoffs, will feel the pressure to avoid having to play the Clippers and the Warriors just to get out the west.

 

[jterrell]

The Josh Smith decision is one of the weirdest ones of the off-season.

He had a very defined role in HOU that allowed him to succeed alongside a LONG-time friend D12.

In LAC he goes back to being a non-ball handler who is asked to do the dirty work and that makes little sense at all.
He's a point forward type who can flash athleticism but he's not going to get the ball over CP3 or Doc's own kid.

He had to really be mad at HOU to take the min in LA.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Yea, gonna be a nice three team race for the #1 seed in the west. Even San Antonio, who has in the best been willing to sacrifice regular season wins for rest, in preparation for the playoffs, will feel the pressure to avoid having to play the Clippers and the Warriors just to get out the west.

win your homecourt this year! Even that may not matter..

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

The Josh Smith decision is one of the weirdest ones of the off-season.

He had a very defined role in HOU that allowed him to succeed alongside a LONG-time friend D12.

In LAC he goes back to being a non-ball handler who is asked to do the dirty work and that makes little sense at all.
He's a point forward type who can flash athleticism but he's not going to get the ball over CP3 or Doc's own kid.

He had to really be mad at HOU to take the min in LA.

It definitely seems like something the fans can't see caused him to leave.
I do think Doc seen enough of him to gauge his strengths though... second unit, doesn't have a true point, and blake handles a bit as a starter... I would hope doc allows JSmoove to handle some of the same duties in reserve.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Ty Lawson to Houston
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--nuggets-trade-guard-ty-lawson-to-rockets-012827302.html

 

[jterrell]

Ty Lawson to Houston
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--nuggets-trade-guard-ty-lawson-to-rockets-012827302.html

man, that is interesting.
lawson can play but he has severe demons to battle.

 

[jterrell]

Dr. J let slip that the Sixers is a "7-year" plan.
YIKES!!

That tanking stuff is truly bad business.