NBC: Wade Phillips says Jerry Jones was “good to me”

[CCBoy]

This is a fact that Garrett apologists conveniently ignore

Left out the part about no Super Bowl trophies...

 

[CCBoy]

As I said, I measure based on points/ offensive series. That #2/#9 ranking is based on what? Yards? Points?

And an offseason is a lifetime in the NFL. Teams turnover 25-30% of their rosters. Veterans get older. And that 2009 team was the one that completely collapsed in MIN. Which is what triggered the dismantling of the OL in that 2011 offseason.

The 1-7 is a much better measure of where that team was at. Playoff rosters don't earn 1-7 when everybody is healthy.

With or without a Tony Romo?

 

[Idgit]

With or without a Tony Romo?

Romo played in the first 6 games in 2009.

 

[reddyuta]

Wade probably hates Garrett more than any person and i dont blame him at all,you know Wade is using all 10 days to come up with a great plan to beat us.I would expect a similar game plan with a loaded box to keep us in 3rd and long situations.

 

[visionary]

Left out the part about no Super Bowl trophies...

Thx for the reminder
You're right, 6 years and Garrett has none as a HC

 

[Pants]

Nice guy, you can see him at the family barbeque, let him set up the tables and put the beer in tubs of ice before people get there, but you DO NOT rely on him to cook the burgers and greet people and never, I mean NEVER let him choose the music

 

[Big D]

In my eyes wade was sabotaged by JGs playcalling and pretty much was made the scapegoat after a rough start. But in the end he was head coach and it happened on his watch. He was too nice to pull Jasons card. Give him the 6 yrs JG has burned and we might have more to show for it.

 

[Zman5]

As I said, I measure based on points/ offensive series. That #2/#9 ranking is based on what? Yards? Points?

And an offseason is a lifetime in the NFL. Teams turnover 25-30% of their rosters. Veterans get older. And that 2009 team was the one that completely collapsed in MIN. Which is what triggered the dismantling of the OL in that 2011 offseason.

The 1-7 is a much better measure of where that team was at. Playoff rosters don't earn 1-7 when everybody is healthy.

The points ranking for the 2009 team was #14 offense and #2 in defense. Teams with similar type of rankings have won SBs . That was a good team JG inherited.

And you basing the overall team talent level based on win/loss is a mistake. Wins and losses aren't always the best indicator of the overall talent level of the team. Especially for a team sport like football. There is a reason our dream team Olympic basketball teams haven't always won the gold medal despite being the most talented team.

Your whole argument that Wade inherited a team like the Patriots and drove it into the ground and JG inherited a team like the Browns and made it into a SB contender is ridiculous.

 

[Montanalo]

Uh, yeah. He hired you as head coach when you had no business being one.

Going from Parcells to Wade was such a turn in the wrong direction. It showed the owner still didn't learn anything.

My memory my be faulty but, at the time of Parcell' s departure, the Cowboys had the foundation of a descent 3-4 defense. It made sense to identify a HC or DC that would build on that. While Wade may not have been the ideal HC hire, it was not a bad hire at the time.

 

[Idgit]

The points ranking for the 2009 team was #14 offense and #2 in defense. Teams with similar type of rankings have won SBs . That was a good team JG inherited.

And you basing the overall team talent level based on win/loss is a mistake. Wins and losses aren't always the best indicator of the overall talent level of the team. Especially for a team sport like football. There is a reason our dream team Olympic basketball teams haven't always won the gold medal despite being the most talented team.

Your whole argument that Wade inherited a team like the Patriots and drove it into the ground and JG inherited a team like the Browns and made it into a SB contender is ridiculous.

I've already explained your mistake in pretending the 2009 team and the 2010 team were equivalent. There are way too many examples of good teams becoming bad ones in a single season.

As far as "basing my argument on wins" being a mistake, I'm sorry but, lol. I'm basing my argument on wins because that's the measure of the quality of a team. And the won-loss records are clearly in my favor.

There's nothing whatsoever ridiculous about my argument. It's built entirely on performance as measured by wins and losses. You don't like it because it runs counter to the narrative you choose to believe. But it's not my fault you want to believe in a narrative that doesn't hold up to what actually happened on the field.

 

[Risen Star]

My memory my be faulty but, at the time of Parcell' s departure, the Cowboys had the foundation of a descent 3-4 defense. It made sense to identify a HC or DC that would build on that. While Wade may not have been the ideal HC hire, it was not a bad hire at the time.

Well then you don't know what you're talking about. To go back to a weak willed powerless figure head of a head coach was exactly what not to do and why a young emerging core of players ready to win ended up getting the guy fired in 3 years.

Terrible hire.

 

[Zman5]

I've already explained your mistake in pretending the 2009 team and the 2010 team were equivalent. There are way too many examples of good teams becoming bad ones in a single season.

As far as "basing my argument on wins" being a mistake, I'm sorry but, lol. I'm basing my argument on wins because that's the measure of the quality of a team. And the won-loss records are clearly in my favor.

There's nothing whatsoever ridiculous about my argument. It's built entirely on performance as measured by wins and losses. You don't like it because it runs counter to the narrative you choose to believe. But it's not my fault you want to believe in a narrative that doesn't hold up to what actually happened on the field.

So you want to say 2009 and 2010 teams are different yet 2006 and 2007 are the same? LOL.

This whole debate started with your ridiculous argument of Wade taking a good 2006 team and making it bad yet JG took a bad 2009 team and made it good. That's furthest from the truth.

 

[Idgit]

So you want to say 2009 and 2010 teams are different yet 2006 and 2007 are the same? LOL.

This whole debate started with your ridiculous argument of Wade taking a good 2006 team and making it bad yet JG took a bad 2009 team and made it good.

Where did I say the 2006 and 2007 teams were the same? They were both pretty good teams, but they weren't the same. Wade actually did a good job with those early teams. I think I said the same earlier in the thread. It was the accumulation of poor drafting that caught up to them.

 

[Idgit]

My memory my be faulty but, at the time of Parcell' s departure, the Cowboys had the foundation of a descent 3-4 defense. It made sense to identify a HC or DC that would build on that. While Wade may not have been the ideal HC hire, it was not a bad hire at the time.

Parcells left really late in the process when a lot of good candidates had already been taken off the field. There's a reason Wade and Norv were our two most serious options for that hire. Neither would have been the answer.

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

I think that was his deal, too. Even in Buffalo and Denver, he had a decent record as a head coach. But the drafting really did suffer during those years between Parcells and Garrett.

I really don't think you guys are right about this. 2009 was obviously a disaster. But the other years were fine. Not great, but fine. Certainly not so bad as to account for a team falling apart the way Wade's Cowboys did.

2007 yielded Spencer, Free (two eventual plus starters) and a pretty good kicker in Nick Folk.

2008 produced Felix (1/2 of the running back by committee we used to run), Jenkins and Oscan (two of our three starting CBs for several years) and Martellus Bennett (who got a lot of snaps because of our fixation with 12 personnel packages at the time and became a key part of the running game)

2010 of course produced Dez and Lee, two pro bowl calibre players.

The conventional wisdom is that if you get 2 starters out of a draft you've done alright. The Cowboys generally surpassed that standard during Wade's years.

Besides, the real impact of Wade's draft years would mostly have been felt by Garrett. There are a few exceptions (mostly RBs) but most players don't really begin to make their presence felt for a few years after their draft year, once they've had time to develop.

Wade's issues weren't about talent acquisition in my view. They were about culture. Lack of discipline. The defining feature of Wade's tenure is that his team ultimately gave up on him. Ask yourself how that happens - what are the precursors of that kind of mutiny - if you want to understand why Wade failed here, in my opinion.

 

[Zman5]

Where did I say the 2006 and 2007 teams were the same? They were both pretty good teams, but they weren't the same. Wade actually did a good job with those early teams. I think I said the same earlier in the thread. It was the accumulation of poor drafting that caught up to them.

What? Did you even fully read the posts?

You posted the following.

You mean that team Wade inherited from Parcells? That was a good squad. Not a stretch at all to say that was a good team.

And I'm not knocking Wade. I was among the very few that thought he needed to be given a chance when he got here. Everybody else was up in arms about Dallas hiring a 3 time re-tread. He did well in 2007, kept things stable for a while, and then gradually lost control of the team as talent left and he was unable to replace it. Just take a look at those draft classes and it's not hard to see what took them from 13-3 to 1-7.

What you posted above is ridiculous. Talent wise, squad he started with and the squad he left behind were about the same. And your opinion of the talent level of the two teams based only on win record displays your lack of knowledge on how team sports work.

 

[Trouty]

Well then you don't know what you're talking about. To go back to a weak willed powerless figure head of a head coach was exactly what not to do and why a young emerging core of players ready to win ended up getting the guy fired in 3 years.

Terrible hire.

You supported him at the time.

And good morning ol' friend. I trust breakfast was fantastic and filling?

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

What you posted above is ridiculous. Talent wise, squad he started with and the squad he left behind were about the same. And your opinion of the talent level of the two teams based only on win record displays your lack of knowledge on how team sports work.

I don't agree with this. The biggest difference was the O-line. He inherited one of the best O-lines in the league. That 2007 team had 3 pro bowl lineman (Flozell, Leonard Davis and Gurode) and a warrior at RT in Colombo. By the time he left the O-line had gotten old and injured. Garrett had to spend his first few years working with a rag-tag bunch of nobodies while the current stalwart line was being built.

If there's one thing Cowboys fans should know about, it's the impact of the quality of your O-line.

 

[Zman5]

I don't agree with this. The biggest difference was the O-line. He inherited one of the best O-lines in the league. That 2007 team had 3 pro bowl lineman (Flozell, Leonard Davis and Gurode) and a warrior at RT in Colombo. By the time he left the O-line had gotten old and injured. Garrett had to spend his first few years working with a rag-tag bunch of nobodies while the current stalwart line was being built.

If there's one thing Cowboys fans should know about, it's the impact of the quality of your O-line.

2006 line didn't have Davis on it. He was brought in by Wade in 2007. 2006 OLine was overrated. That OLine was made better by Romo. Before Romo, our OLine wasn't considered anything special. It was getting Bledsoe killed. I agree it was better than 2010 squad but it wasn't like night and day better. Flip side of it is, we had better RB, and DL in 2010. So as I said, the overall talent level was about the same.

 

[LocimusPrime]

You supported him at the time.

And good morning ol' friend. I trust breakfast was fantastic and filling?

Hi bro! I had whataburger breakfast. Two bacon and egg taquitos and a breakfast on a bun.
Absolutely fantastic.