Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[DOUBLE WING]

Yes, I have been considering that throughout this thread. I've said many times I don't know what happened and the kid may have been completely innocent. The only people speaking in absolutes are you and Count. All I've said was there had to be SOMETING more for the guy to not get arrested, and it turns out I was right. Whether his story is true or not there WAS more to the story.

You were right? About what? All we know is that there was a physical altercation after this grown adult followed a kid because he was black (Let's get real here, "“For some reason he felt that Trayvon, the way that he was walking or appeared seemed suspicious to him,” = BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK).

Considering that he was apparently following this kid for no good reason and considering that we know he disobeyed police orders to leave it alone with an officer on the way, you don't have to go very far out on a limb to assume Zimmerman escalated this incident.

I'm a bit surprised no witnesses have come forward. You'd think if there was a big knockdown dragout fight, or this kid jumping on top of the guys car or something, that someone would have seen it.

This is all beside the point. You're basing all this on the assumption that a small 17 year old has no ability whatsoever to harm an adult. All that matters is that someone believe they COULD be carrying a gun or they COULD be presenting some sort of danger. How many cops, hell how many people have been shot or stabbed by teenagers in America? It numbers in the hundreds of thousands over the years. I'm not saying this kid was, but all that is relevant to my point here is that someone believe they could. How did the guy know he didnt have a gun? How did he know he didnt have anything at all?

And I agree he should have let it go, but once he didnt I have my doubts that he was there to shoot somebody.

Once again, all I can say is that you're just being naive. If he believed the kid was carrying a gun, why wouldn't he tell that to the dispatcher in the 911 call? Why wouldn't he tell police that he believed the kid was a threat to himself? Once again, THIS MAN HAD A GUN. If this kid pulled a gun out of his pocket, the man has every right to shoot. An assumption that he may have a gun in his pocket does not warrant him pulling the trigger. If he believed the kid was that big of a threat, he could have just as easily held him there at gunpoint until the cops arrived.

Of course they will, but this is assuming that all murderers are sociopaths and all family members are objective. It's also assuming that the vast, vast majority of convicted murderers have no criminal history, which is simply incorrect. I can call someone loving and caring all I want, but if they have three felonies on their record that would speak against my claim.

Just like you're assuming Zimmerman is this great, upstanding citizen?

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Are we really going to pretend that the fact that he was a young, black male out in a gated community after dark couldn't have played any part what led to the confrontation?

It's almost shocking how some people apparently live with their heads buried in the sand.

 

[YosemiteSam]

/close

 

[TheCount]

/close

Why? Because the subject is uncomfortable? None of the rules have been violated, as far as I'm aware.

 

[The30YardSlant]

You were right? About what? All we know is that there was a physical altercation after this grown adult followed a kid because he was black (Let's get real here, "“For some reason he felt that Trayvon, the way that he was walking or appeared seemed suspicious to him,” = BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK).

Considering that he was apparently following this kid for no good reason and considering that we know he disobeyed police orders to leave it alone with an officer on the way, you don't have to go very far out on a limb to assume Zimmerman escalated this incident.

I'm a bit surprised no witnesses have come forward. You'd think if there was a big knockdown dragout fight, or this kid jumping on top of the guys car or something, that someone would have seen it.

The guy might jsut be a full blown racist, I don't know, but again what I do know is that the police saw or heard something substantial that orevented them from arresting him. They didnt let him walk because he's white.

Just like you're assuming Zimmerman is this great, upstanding citizen?

I'm not assuming anything, he has not one blemish on his criminal record according to reports. That is a fact. Now, behind closed doors he might be a jerk but socially he IS an upstanding citizen. I was googling this after I read the original story here and according to another report the guy doesnt have so much as a speeding ticket on his record.

 

[TheCount]

The guy might jsut be a full blown racist, I don't know, but again what I do know is that the police saw or heard something substantial that orevented them from arresting him. They didnt let him walk because he's white.

I'm not assuming anything, he has not one blemish on his criminal record according to reports. That is a fact. Now, behind closed doors he might be a jerk but socially he IS an upstanding citizen. I was googling this after I read the original story here and according to another report the guy doesnt have so much as a speeding ticket on his record.

You seem awfully concerned with justifying why they haven't arrested him rather than discussing whether he should be arrested.

Whether he has a speeding ticket or not is irrelevant. Fear of getting your *** kicked is not the same as fear for your life. Fear for a broken nose does not justify killing someone. This isn't a war zone.

 

[The30YardSlant]

lol, if he's afraid why is he disobeying 911 telling him to not get involved and following a 17 year old kid around with a gun in his pocket?

If I'm scared of snakes and I see one, I don't chase after it to find out if it's poisonous or not. And that's the reason his "self defense" claim won't fly. He'll be arrested soon enough.

Perhaps he will. My only claim from the start was that he wasnt just allowed to walk for no reason as the original report posted would lead one to believe.

Are we really going to pretend that the fact that he was a young, black male out in a gated community after dark couldn't have played any part what led to the confrontation?

It could have, but if the roles were reversed and a white man was shot while walking through Harlem nobody would bat an eye.

The fact that the shooter is white or black may not mean anything, but the victim being black certainly could have played a part.

What if the victim were east Asian? Or Indian? Or Canadian?

Nevermind, go ahead and shoot the Canadian.

 

[The30YardSlant]

You seem awfully concerned with justifying why they haven't arrested him rather than discussing whether he should be arrested.

Only because you guys are doing the latter for me. I'm simply leaving the door open for the possibility that the guy isnt a racist murderer. Innoccent until proven guilty, no?

Fear of getting your *** kicked is not the same as fear for your life. Fear for a broken nose does not justify killing someone. This isn't a war zone.

I agree.

 

[DFWJC]

Are we really going to pretend that the fact that he was a young, black male out in a gated community after dark couldn't have played any part what led to the confrontation?

The fact that the shooter is white or black may not mean anything, but the victim being black certainly could have played a part.

Not pretending anything. It's just the premis that this was racially motivated without really knowing that is what irks me. It could have been, but we really don't know that.

What happended sux regardless of race.

Face it, this thread was a pot-stirring thread. I actually wonder if the script were flipped if it would have been posted. You knew that right away it was not about just smeone maybe getting off of a crime when the neighborhood that this young man's family lived in was labled a "white neighborhood" yet the kid himself was not white.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

The guy might jsut be a full blown racist, I don't know, but again what I do know is that the police saw or heard something substantial that orevented them from arresting him. They didnt let him walk because he's white.

I don't know why you continue to discount the fact that this man isn't in someway connected with people in the police force and that's why he wasn't arrested.

Regardless of what is to come out later, it's unfathomable to me that at the time of the murder, the cops wouldn't at least take him back to the station for questioning. I don't believe regular Joe Schmoe off the street would be awarded the luxury of going back home to finish dinner after shooting a kid on a sidewalk.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man-who-shot-killed-teen-sanford-neighborhood-has-/nLPgL/

Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 on suspicion of battery on a law-enforcement officer. He was not prosecuted, and it looks like the case was dismissed for some reason.

Sounds like a real upstanding citizen.

 

[TheCount]

Only because you guys are doing the latter for me. I'm simply leaving the door open for the possibility that the guy isnt a racist murderer. Innoccent until proven guilty, no?

Innocent of what? He hasn't been charged.

 

[Dallas]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man-who-shot-killed-teen-sanford-neighborhood-has-/nLPgL/



Sounds like a real upstanding citizen.

Its because he's white and you feel his color gets him off. :laugh2: You say its police connections, but thats a bunch of BS, because there is nothing to support that.

You and Count trying to be PC is just making me LOL in my meeting right now.



yes my meeting is boring atm - capitol project expenditures ZzzzzZZZZ

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Its because he's white and you feel his color gets him off. :laugh2: You say its police connections, but thats a bunch of BS, because there is nothing to support that.

You and Count trying to be PC is just making me LOL in my meeting right now.

And you're also being naive if you don't think there are places in this country in 2012 where being white and/or having important friends is enough to keep you out of trouble.

 

[Dallas]

And you're also being naive if you don't think there are places in this country in 2012 where being white and/or having important friends is enough to keep you out of trouble.

I guess I don't lose sleep over it like you do. Its also never been an issue for me or my family.


Prolly cuz we is white, huh? Even though we are native american, but dang we pasty.

 

[Doomsday101]

And you're also being naive if you don't think there are places in this country in 2012 where being white and/or having important friends is enough to keep you out of trouble.

If you have important friends you can get out of trouble regardless of race.

I think this idiot should be thrown in jail based on the reports you posted. He killed an unarmed kid who was not doing anything.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

maybe due to the fact that it is possible that he was shot because he was black?

What leads you to believe that was the case? Nothing in the story indicates that.

 

[TheCount]

It could have, but if the roles were reversed and a white man was shot while walking through Harlem nobody would bat an eye.

It's illegal to carry in NY for civilians, so in the reverse scenario, yes, he would have been arrested on the spot. Maybe you want to try another state?

You and Count trying to be PC is just making me LOL in my meeting right now.

Dont' be a fool. My argument is that his shooting the kid was unjustified and he should be arrested, don't read two posts in a long running conversation and presume you understand what we've been talking about.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

I guess I don't lose sleep over it like you do. Its also never been an issue for me or my family.


Prolly cuz we is white, huh? Even though we are native american, but dang we pasty.

Who's losing sleep over it? I'm not on some crusade. I don't see why you're so up in arms about someone suggesting this murder may have been race-related. Get your head out of the sand.

 

[Dallas]

If you have important friends you can get out of trouble regardless of race.

I think this idiot should be thrown in jail based on the reports you posted. He killed an unarmed kid who was not doing anything.

Most all of America white/blue/green/black/yellow/red suppor this same opinion.


BUT

Don't let that steer us away from ones agenda....