Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[TheCount]

Ouch! If you disagree your a moron? Really?

:laugh2:

Read his coup de grace at the end of his post. I don't care if anyone disagrees, we've been going back and forth about this for pages without it turning into what it's turning into now.

As far as the thread.

If the guy murdered that boy ...... I hope he is executed.

If the kid attacked him ..... I hope the truth comes out.

There is no way to know at this point ......

It's already been confirmed there was a physical altercation. As to who attacked who first, I have no idea. I've seen aggressive touching turn into violent fist fights, so at what point does an argument turn from a confrontation to a full on fight? Who knows.

Again, to be clear, my position isn't that it's impossible the shooting was unjustified or that race was the primary issue (other than the fact that an unfamiliar teenage black teenager out after dark is certainly more suspicious to some people) but the fact that the shooter is white means nothing to me, he could have been Chinese or Samoan for all I care.

What matters to me is that some seem to think it's justified to shoot someone that's unarmed because you're scared of getting your *** kicked. Being afraid someone is going to beat you up, isn't a reason to shoot someone. It is, however, a perfectly good reason to wait for the cops to arrive.

 

[Dallas]

Read his coup de grace at the end of his post. I don't care if anyone disagrees, we've been going back and forth about this for pages without it turning into what it's turning into now.

And? All you were doing was tippy-toeing around what you really meant. So someone called you out on it, now your upset.

Same as it ever was.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Innocent of what? He hasn't been charged.

:laugh2: You got me

 

[JonJon]

You don't know any of this information, either way. We don't know yet if the kid was "minding his own business". Maybe he was, and if so Zimmerman should fry. All I'm saying is it's too early and not NEARLY enough information has come out for ANYONE to speak in absolutions, either way.

If Zimmerman randomly killed the kid for no reason, he will go to jail. If there was more to it, that info will come out. What's the freakin' hurry in placing blame on either one of them w/o knowing all the facts?

I know that the killer followed the kid because he looked suspicious based on the way he he was walking or the way he appeared, according to the police.

“For some reason he felt that Trayvon, the way that he was walking or appeared seemed suspicious to him,” Lee said.

I know the man continued to follow the kid after the police told him not to.

“He called this in and at one part of this initial call [the dispatcher] recommends him not to follow Trayvon. A police officer is on the way at that point.”

Lee said that Zimmerman instead followed Martin.

I know that the killer is now claiming self defense after following behind the kid, again after the police told him not to.

“He felt the need to defend himself,” Lee said. “ I don’t think it was his intent to go and shoot somebody” that night.

I know that the kid is now dead because the killer didn't let the police do their job.

That's when a physical confrontation ensued, Lee said. And moments later, Martin was shot.

I know that the police failed to arrest the man because he has a "clean record".

"When I asked the police why there’s been no arrest, they told me they respected the guy’s background, that he had a four-year degree; that he was clean," Tracy Martin said. “But did they check my unarmed son’s record? No.”

My disgust with this incident is that it doesn't seem like proper protocol is being taken place. I am sure the full truth will eventually come out, so we agree there, but I am not at all comfortable with this man still walking around with the ability to kill again.

 

[TheCount]

And? All you were doing was tippy-toeing around what you really meant. So someone called you out on it, now your upset.

Same as it ever was.

Now I remember why I rejoiced when the political forum died, some people get downright belligerent.

I don't even know what you're blabbering about and I don't know how calling someone a bozo is calling them out.

 

[The30YardSlant]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man-who-shot-killed-teen-sanford-neighborhood-has-/nLPgL/



Sounds like a real upstanding citizen.

When I was 19 I saw one of my friends be charged with attempted battery against a police officer (or some charge similar to that, I forget exactly) because an off duty officer who wasnt in uniform was cussing out his girlfriend and he shoved him.

Stuff happens. Maybe he's evil at heart, but come on dude. We've all known someone who pissed off the wrong cop and got arrested or ticketed fro something stupid.

 

[The30YardSlant]

It's illegal to carry in NY for civilians, so in the reverse scenario, yes, he would have been arrested on the spot. Maybe you want to try another state?

No, because I wasnt saying they wouldnt be arrested. I was saying nobody would bring race into the discussion, because I've been told only white people can be racist.

 

[TheCount]

When I was 19 I saw one of my friends be charged with attempted battery against a police officer (or some charge similar to that, I forget exactly) because an off duty officer who wasnt in uniform was cussing out his girlfriend and he shoved him.

Stuff happens. Maybe he's evil at heart, but come on dude. We've all known someone who pissed off the wrong cop and got arrested or ticketed fro something stupid.

Somewhat unrelated, but as a teenager, one of my friends along with a number of his friends had stood shoulder to shoulder (for some stupid reason) and prevented a lady from getting past them on the sidewalk without going all the way around them.

She went to the cops and told them they had pushed her on the ground and thrown snowballs at her.

Being that he was young, he got probation. But it's a good lesson than sometimes the story that makes it to the police may not be as cut and dry as what happened.

What he did wasn't right, but by the time the story gets out, it's about 5 young men beating up and abusing a woman walking down the street alone.

After that, he wouldn't do anything even remotely risky with us because he was scared the judge would hear the previous situation and assume he was guilty of whatever else he was accused of.

No, because I wasnt saying they wouldnt be arrested. I was saying nobody would bring race into the discussion, because I've been told only white people can be racist.

I know what you were saying, I was just giving you a hard time. Like I've said, the race doesn't concern me so much as the fact that a teenager was killed and the shooter was still free with no charges, but I think they're coming soon enough.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I used to work security at mervyns back in the day. I confronted a shop lifter once (in the parking lot) and he lifted his shirt as if to pull a gun on me. There was no time to wait and "Confirm" that he had a weapon or not, I grabbed him (all 130 lbs of him) and slammed him onto the ground and proceeded to beat the **** out of him.

Turned out he didn't have a gun on him, but I was not in the wrong for FEARING he had a gun (especially being that he tried to make me think he had one) and doing what I needed to do to defend myself.

I find it funny the ones doing the most complaining about people having their heads buried in the sand are the ones themselves completely buried in the sand.

Not saying either are innocent or guilty, it's too early and not all the info is out. There's a couple of people here (you know who you are) though that have made their decision, and accuse people of being short sighted at the same time. How f'in ironic is that?

I hope if I ever have to defend myself (again, not saying Zimmerman is guilty or innocent) and end up shooting a "Minority" that you two bozos aren't on the jury. You will have made up your mind just from reading the title of the f'in article.

Probably says it better than I ever could have. Zimmerman may be a card-carrying racist out to pick on a young black kid for all I know. Yes, he shouldnt have followed him after he called the police, that was dumb but NOT illegal. Once he did follow him, if the kid got upset and they had a confrontation then it changes the game completely.

Maybe he shot him just to shoot him because he pissed him off. Maybe he shot him in what he perceived to be self-defense. Hell, maybe he accidently discharged the gun in his haste to draw it.

He may be guilty of everything or only guilty of being stupid enough to pursue the kid, but nobody knows yet.

 

[TheCount]

Probably says it better than I ever could have. Zimmerman may be a card-carrying racist out to pick on a young black kid for all I know. Yes, he shouldnt have followed him after he called the police, that was dumb but NOT illegal. Once he did follow him, if the kid got upset and they had a confrontation then it changes the game completely.

Maybe he shot him just to shoot him because he pissed him off. Maybe he shot him in what he perceived to be self-defense. Hell, maybe he accidently discharged the gun in his haste to draw it.

He may be guilty of everything or only guilty of being stupid enough to pursue the kid, but nobody knows yet.

That's a good summation but I'll ask you this, do you believe he should have been arrested at the time and do you believe he should still be free today?

 

[The30YardSlant]

Somewhat unrelated, but as a teenager, one of my friends along with a number of his friends had stood shoulder to shoulder (for some stupid reason) and prevented a lady from getting past them on the sidewalk without going all the way around them.

She went to the cops and told them they had pushed her on the ground and thrown snowballs at her.

Being that he was young, he got probation. But it's a good lesson than sometimes the story that makes it to the police may not be as cut and dry as what happened.

What he did wasn't right, but by the time the story gets out, it's about 5 young men beating up and abusing a woman walking down the street alone.

After that, he wouldn't do anything even remotely risky with us because he was scared the judge would hear the previous situation and assume he was guilty of whatever else he was accused of.




I know what you were saying, I was just giving you a hard time. Like I've said, the race doesn't concern me so much as the fact that a teenager was killed and the shooter was still free with no charges, but I think they're coming soon enough.

I think he'll be charged if enough people claim the kid wasnt doing anything to incite anybody. I have my doubts though becuse if there was enough doubt to let him walk on essentially his word then I have a feeling something or someone either backed up his story or they had reason to doubt the idea that he just shot him for no reason.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Another do-gooder, intervening entity gone wrong. Cripes.

 

[KLJ]

some more info.

The report said that Zimmerman’s back was wet and he was covered in grass as if he had been on the ground. He was bleeding from his nose and the back of the head, the report said.

A police officer said he overheard Zimmerman say, “I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me” while he was being treated by paramedics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...watch-leader/2012/03/08/gIQAPkJSzR_story.html

 

[zrinkill]

do you believe he should have been arrested at the time ?

I believe he should, at the very least, been taken into custody.

Unless there was overwhelming evidence this kid was attacking him and his life was in danger. (witness, video recording)

I was taken into custody for beating a guy up on my property with witneses to what happened ..... so I cannot see how someone could kill a kid and not be taken in and grilled.

 

[The30YardSlant]

That's a good summation but I'll ask you this, do you believe he should have been arrested at the time and do you believe he should still be free today?

If I had been the cop who arrived at the scene I would have detained him if for no other reason than to cover my own butt in the event that it turned out he was guilty of something. It doesnt sound like there was definitive evidence aside from likely biased witness testimony that possibly conflicted, and without a weapon on the kid I would have definitely brought him in for questioning at least.

That being said, I can see now why they let him walk pending investigation whereas originally I couldnt fathom why they'd let him walk if it was as cut and dry as the original report sounded. I wouldnt have done it the same way but then again I'm not one to take many risks when my job and reputation could be on the line.

 

[The30YardSlant]

some more info.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...watch-leader/2012/03/08/gIQAPkJSzR_story.html

Interesting. I wonder if there are any pictures of him on the internet yet? While a 17 year old can pose a real threat to anyone with a gun, if Zimmerman is a small guy it would grant some credence to this story of him getting physically taken to the ground. If he's 6'3" 230 then I don't believe he would have easily been overpowered by a teenager as small as this guy was.

 

[TheCount]

I think he'll be charged if enough people claim the kid wasnt doing anything to incite anybody. I have my doubts though becuse if there was enough doubt to let him walk on essentially his word then I have a feeling something or someone either backed up his story or they had reason to doubt the idea that he just shot him for no reason.

Yeah see, that's one of my qualms. You've kind of made the line in the sand and on one side is that he shot him for no reason and on the other is that he shot him for a reason.

I see a spectrum of possibilities where both are at fault, but in most of those possibilities, a shooting still isn't justified.

I believe he should, at the very least, been taken into custody.

Unless there was overwhelming evidence this kid was attacking him and his life was in danger. (witness, video recording)

I was taken into custody for beating a guy up on my property with witneses to what happened ..... so I cannot see how someone could kill a kid and not be taken in and grilled.

Thank you, that's all I'm saying. I wonder if he was taken in, I haven't seen an article say whether he was or wasn't. It's possible he was taken in and released the same night/day, I suppose.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I believe he should, at the very least, been taken into custody.

Unless there was overwhelming evidence this kid was attacking him and his life was in danger. (witness, video recording)

I was taken into custody for beating a guy up on my property with witneses to what happened ..... so I cannot see how someone could kill a kid and not be taken in and grilled.

Kinda my thoughts, even knowing the self-defense story I'm surprised they didnt take him in. It's part of what makes me wonder if there isnt some piece of evidence or testimony that isnt in any of the stories published yet. If the guy really looked like he'd been beaten on like the above link says then it would clear a lot up from the cop's perspective IMO.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Another do-gooder, intervening entity gone wrong. Cripes.

For every story like this there's one about a cop or civilian with a CHL stopping a robbery or saving a life. It's silly to say that is always the more likely outcome.

 

[zrinkill]

For every story like this there's one about a cop or civilian with a CHL stopping a robbery or saving a life. It's silly to say that is always the more likely outcome.

Ignore him ... or he will make sure this thread is shut down.