News: Cowboys still bottoming out since Jimmy Johnson's exit; here's why

[erod]

Jimmy Johnson.

Great CEO type of coach.

But no salary cap. Different era.

Preferred Steve Walsh to Troy Aikman for a while. Wised up.

Liked Blair Thomas over Emmitt Smith. Got lucky.

Desperately wanted to draft James Francis. Whew, that was close.

Would have struggled in this drug-tested and politically correct world of coaching today.

 

[coogrfan]

Bet...now provide a full picture of statistics to prove out what you state, and don't go by purely a lack of NFC Championships or Lombardis as the cherry picking.

Did you read the article?

"In the 20 drafts since hoisting their last Lombardi Trophy in January 1996, the Cowboys have chosen 103 players from rounds 4-7. Only three became Pro Bowlers: running back Marion Barber, nose tackle Jay Ratliff and kicker Nick Folk."..." The Cowboys haven't produced a Pro Bowler in rounds 4-7 since Folk in 2007. That was nine drafts ago.

There were Pro Bowlers to be found. Thirty-eight of them in fact, including the NFL's leading receiver Antonio Bryant, 1,000-yard rushers Latavius Murray and Devonta Freeman, pass rushers Geno Atkins and Everson Griffen and pass defenders Richard Sherman and Josh Norman. Twenty-five teams have found a Pro Bowl player since 2008 in rounds 4-7. But not the Cowboys."

 

[Hoofbite]

Did you read the article?

"In the 20 drafts since hoisting their last Lombardi Trophy in January 1996, the Cowboys have chosen 103 players from rounds 4-7. Only three became Pro Bowlers: running back Marion Barber, nose tackle Jay Ratliff and kicker Nick Folk."..." The Cowboys haven't produced a Pro Bowler in rounds 4-7 since Folk in 2007. That was nine drafts ago.

There were Pro Bowlers to be found. Thirty-eight of them in fact, including the NFL's leading receiver Antonio Bryant, 1,000-yard rushers Latavius Murray and Devonta Freeman, pass rushers Geno Atkins and Everson Griffen and pass defenders Richard Sherman and Josh Norman. Twenty-five teams have found a Pro Bowl player since 2008 in rounds 4-7. But not the Cowboys."

While the pro bowl isn't really a good standard to use, late round drafting has left a lot to be desired. Dwayne Harris was an alternate by the way.

Awesome players from late rounds shouldn't be expected, IMO. If you get them, you've exceeded what any rational person would expect, but I think solid players is a more realistic expectation.

Scandrick is one of the few this team has had since 2007. Perhaps a KO specialist and a number of projects weren't needed.

 

[jnday]

Did you read the article?

"In the 20 drafts since hoisting their last Lombardi Trophy in January 1996, the Cowboys have chosen 103 players from rounds 4-7. Only three became Pro Bowlers: running back Marion Barber, nose tackle Jay Ratliff and kicker Nick Folk."..." The Cowboys haven't produced a Pro Bowler in rounds 4-7 since Folk in 2007. That was nine drafts ago.

There were Pro Bowlers to be found. Thirty-eight of them in fact, including the NFL's leading receiver Antonio Bryant, 1,000-yard rushers Latavius Murray and Devonta Freeman, pass rushers Geno Atkins and Everson Griffen and pass defenders Richard Sherman and Josh Norman. Twenty-five teams have found a Pro Bowl player since 2008 in rounds 4-7. But not the Cowboys."

He asked for it and you delivered. These are great facts that will be dismissed.

 

[CCBoy]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GarrJa0.htm


2010 was replacement head coach at mid season - 5-3
2011 8-8
2012 8-8
2013 8-8
2014 12-5 playoffs 1-1
2015 4-12

5 3
8 8
8 8
8 8
12 4
1 1
4 12
__________________

46 44


Now 46 to 44 IS NOT 50%

AND 2011-2015 is five seasons as head coach
For what ever your types of la ti da's that matters.

Under Garrett was set the 2nd and 3rd best offensive total yardage in the history of the Cowboys.

That was done in two of five head coaching seasons.

Now acknowledge the accomplishments as well, to include a 12 win season that took a whole series of new rules to attempt to legalize taking the winning touchdown pass to Dez Bryant. That kept the Cowboys out of the NFC Championship game.

Either accept all the facts...

OR SET THAT ASIDE AND JUST SMILE....

 

[perrykemp]

Take this DUNCE HAT and just sit in the corner...

Now 46 to 44 IS NOT 50%

You are correct, JG has a 51.6 percentage.

I know we've only had a half of a decade to evaluate what kind of coach of JG and that's it not enough time for some here on CZ.

Might as well give it another half-of-a-decade eh CCBoy?

 

[CCBoy]

If you have to trash the Glory Days (or the architect of those Glory Days, Jimmy Johnson) in order to support the current status quo, you are hopelessly lost as a fan of this team.

Challenging a folk ballad full of Thee's and Thou's...or the paper it is written upon. The Cowboys were good because of both Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson. Jerry had to take all of the gambles and still make it succeed....he did succeed.

But more is to be given credit, and that were the Coordinators from 1992 on...Norv Turner and Dave Wannestedt; and a bunch of players that gave their all as well.

But if you or anyone else wishes to turn hero worship into mud in the face for anyone who can also see the negatives on issues as well, then step up to the plate and let's go....that is more insultive than just saying the team was responsible for the wins on the carpet...and then shoveling crap at Jerry or anyone who gives credit where it lands.

I don't have a problem with what Jimmy accompished, but he was a horses *** for turning on his own players, and the Dallas Cowboys, the team. That is what Jimmy did...as to grassy knolls and magic papers that have NEVER been presented on site, I'll just pass and go with respected and documented written accounts that have been objectively passed on. Read some of the real works from that period...or give enough time to the 50th Anniversary book that did a complete and running account of most things that really did happen, and not used as fodder to claim high grounds for a simple process of showing sportsmanship. Hey, Jerry owned up...did Jimmy, EVER?

 

[CCBoy]

You are correct, JG has a 51.6 percentage.

I know we've only had a half of a decade to evaluate what kind of coach of JG and that's it not enough time for some here on CZ.

Might as well give it another half-of-a-decade eh CCBoy?

(chuckling to self) Now, that was amusing...but I won't walk by the still implied indication that this team isn't worth it's salt, here and now. Noooo way.

This team is solid, and if a 2nd and 3rd all time production, prior to the loss of both Tony Romo and Dez Bryant...is lame, then someone is smoking witch hazel and not seeing much for the resulting haze.

Point blank, last season, the team would have won the NFC East, if both Dez and Tony would have been there for the season.

The year before, the team would have been in the NFC Championship game, if not for a group of referees thinking they determined football, and not the play on the field.

What Jason has built since the lockout...only is that dominant offense and a top shelf offensive line.

It won't take a ton in this draft, to push the defense into a prominent role now, and in the immediate future as well...if someone has to go all Soviet on a Cowboys board, then sure, use a five year plan instead. Those do work...if one is really desperate.

 

[CCBoy]

Did you read the article?

"In the 20 drafts since hoisting their last Lombardi Trophy in January 1996, the Cowboys have chosen 103 players from rounds 4-7. Only three became Pro Bowlers: running back Marion Barber, nose tackle Jay Ratliff and kicker Nick Folk."..." The Cowboys haven't produced a Pro Bowler in rounds 4-7 since Folk in 2007. That was nine drafts ago.

There were Pro Bowlers to be found. Thirty-eight of them in fact, including the NFL's leading receiver Antonio Bryant, 1,000-yard rushers Latavius Murray and Devonta Freeman, pass rushers Geno Atkins and Everson Griffen and pass defenders Richard Sherman and Josh Norman. Twenty-five teams have found a Pro Bowl player since 2008 in rounds 4-7. But not the Cowboys."

Why stick to sucking one's own thumb, when obviously one has four more choices to suck...?

 

[BAT]

Newsflash: I don't give a crap. I merely pointed out your problems with the comparisons. Conversation over.

Whoa. Okay staff member.

 

[jnday]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GarrJa0.htm


2010 was replacement head coach at mid season - 5-3
2011 8-8
2012 8-8
2013 8-8
2014 12-5 playoffs 1-1
2015 4-12

5 3
8 8
8 8
8 8
12 4
1 1
4 12
__________________

46 44


Now 46 to 44 IS NOT 50%

AND 2011-2015 is five seasons as head coach
For what ever your types of la ti da's that matters.

Under Garrett was set the 2nd and 3rd best offensive total yardage in the history of the Cowboys.

That was done in two of five head coaching seasons.

Now acknowledge the accomplishments as well, to include a 12 win season that took a whole series of new rules to attempt to legalize taking the winning touchdown pass to Dez Bryant. That kept the Cowboys out of the NFC Championship game.

Either accept all the facts...

OR SET THAT ASIDE AND JUST SMILE....

His 12 win season was meaningless since it didn't produce a trip to the Super Bowl. The 4 win season really evens it all out though. He is one of the most average coaches that I have ever seen. It is damn hard work to maintain average .

 

[RS12]

His 12 win season was meaningless since it didn't produce a trip to the Super Bowl. The 4 win season really evens it all out though. He is one of the most average coaches that I have ever seen. It is damn hard work to maintain average .

Never waste your time arguing with a zealot. 95% of posters here know whats what.

 

[jobberone]

jobberone said: ↑
Newsflash: I don't give a crap. I merely pointed out your problems with the comparisons. Conversation over.

Whoa. Okay staff member.

When I post in a thread it is as a member unless it is obvious I'm moderating which isn't the case here obviously.

So spare us the false indignation.

Now, as a mod, don't take shots at the staff please. Take it to PMs.

 

[Dodger12]

But more is to be given credit, and that were the Coordinators from 1992 on...Norv Turner and Dave Wannestedt; and a bunch of players that gave their all as well.

The year before, the team would have been in the NFC Championship game, if not for a group of referees thinking they determined football, and not the play on the field.

What Jason has built since the lockout...only is that dominant offense and a top shelf offensive line.

You just don't see it....you're incapable of seeing what's right in front of you. More credit to the coordinators rather than a SB winning HC and you fawn over what mediocrity Garrett has built.

Oh, by the way, the year we went 12 and 4 under Garrett we had a new OC. You failed to mention his name.......

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He asked for it and you delivered. These are great facts that will be dismissed.

In 1989, JJ had 5 top 100 picks and 15 overall.
In 1990, he had 3 top 100 picks and 6 overall.
In 1991, he had 8 top 100 picks including 3 first rounders and 18 overall.
In 1992, he had 6 top 100 picks with 2 picks in each of the first 3 rounds and 15 overall.
In 1993, they had 5 top 100 picks although they traded their first at the end of the draft and 9 picks overall.

In 5 years, you are looking at a whopping 27 top 100 picks and 63 picks overall.

His success rate when you consider the sheer volume of picks was not that great.

 

[Jarv]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GarrJa0.htm


2010 was replacement head coach at mid season - 5-3
2011 8-8
2012 8-8
2013 8-8
2014 12-5 playoffs 1-1
2015 4-12

5 3
8 8
8 8
8 8
12 4
1 1
4 12
__________________

46 44


Now 46 to 44 IS NOT 50%

AND 2011-2015 is five seasons as head coach
For what ever your types of la ti da's that matters.

Under Garrett was set the 2nd and 3rd best offensive total yardage in the history of the Cowboys.

That was done in two of five head coaching seasons.

Now acknowledge the accomplishments as well, to include a 12 win season that took a whole series of new rules to attempt to legalize taking the winning touchdown pass to Dez Bryant. That kept the Cowboys out of the NFC Championship game.

Either accept all the facts...

OR SET THAT ASIDE AND JUST SMILE....

It's really not something to smile about when we are the Cowboys, we expect greatness...Sorry.

 

[CCBoy]

It's really not something to smile about when we are the Cowboys, we expect greatness...Sorry.

I don't apologize when a Cowboy fan is so spoiled he can't root for the current team...and strictly lives in grandeur of the past. Spoiled and pessimism can apply just as easily, if one goes by stereotypes and high ground only.

I don't have any problems moving on from ring tappers and burn barrel buddies as well...

 

[CCBoy]

Never waste your time arguing with a zealot. 95% of posters here know whats what.

Look, smart guy, not everybody has to believe in the 'only' yellow brick road in Oz. There are attributes for taking a franchise level quarterback, but NONE of the trump the reality of actually having one on roster in the now. Only teams desperate for this level of play, invest as high as #4 in a draft, when having a franchise quarterback, AND other prominent positional needs as well. That isn't wise, no matter how one stares into the Wicked Witch's caldron and how many flying monkies are brought out.

If YOU don't want to listen to anything else, that is on you...but on the basis of how accept only that and all others are fools. If you are truly owning the view, then own all of what YOU are trying to do as well.

It doesn't take yet another in a series of garbage insults to see, that with a quality defensive end, a quality defensive tackle, and a quality wide receiver also, this present roster would expand quite a bit as to being able to play a team level FOOTBALL.

Treat that real aspect as you wish, but when one also attaches pure garbage trash tags to suggesting a rather large list of alternative....that is on YOU.

Just for the record, NO ONE knows the status of the draft board presently. And that includes YOU or any other person so inclined to declare irrefutable insights. You simply don't.

There also is a reason why Dallas is still attending workouts for a rather large number of quarterbacks that are not in the top 2 or 3 rounds of the draft. There are reasons why this is occuring, and they don't all go to taking Wentz or Goff or Lynch at the top of the draft.

With your labeling of observations, what would that then make YOU? A strereotyping biggot?

My point is on considerations of alternatives, and yours wasn't...You have a lot of good contributions and study hard, but here, you are sharing more than that. I won't put up with that part of your insult.

Take it for what it's worth, but if you include me in a generalized bias and with insulting terms, then I'm coming for YOU. I don't approach topics on the basis of divine insight, and actually consider alternatives presented. In a discussion, one can bring up additional factors concerning subject.

In the subject of Jerry, Jason, and Tony...there has been little middle discussive ground offered...but that is on You and those tossing insult instead of discussions around.

I really don't expect Dallas to sign a defensive end, defensive tackle, or wide receiver prior to the draft. That also can be an indicator if not done....as focus is addressed more as to positional targets.

There are alot of positives involved with Wentz and Goff, but that is only part of the truth. As all avenues, including developing later round quarterbacks are on the table. A clue here, that isn't all that is involved here.

But anyone bringing out this obvious fact, but putting those facts out for discussion, doesn't include being a substandard idiot...JUST FOR THE RECORD.

 

[CCBoy]

It's really not something to smile about when we are the Cowboys, we expect greatness...Sorry.

So, you own Keeper of Respect and Honorable, both...sorry Charlie, worry about one's own ethics and merit then. You striving for a medal or a chest to pin it own?

More than a flaming current fan can carry respect for an organization and is able to distinguish between class or even great play on the field. What, you are super sized in being able to see and feel about football?

I find continual returns to the label that another fan just doesn't have the values for a fan's stance, disgusting...if you even wish to know.

Prove your case, instead of just attempting to insult your way to an 'elevated' view.

Sorry, guy, I have supported the Cowboys since 1960. Your view of the total ups and downs falls a tad short in actual journeys traveled and respect given, even if they weren't always at the levels of a folk hero status, that is claimed here.

One respects achievement, not use it to detract from current efforts or people looking for change in the now, without overshadowing views with grandeur instead of the current team in one's sight.

I have stood by Jerry Jones, Jason Garrett, and now Jason Witten, as well as went through the years of Tony Romo insults...I guess many here missed those opportunities as well. That's called fan loyalty...not being dumb, ignorant, or without valid sense. If that is too far below YOUR own dignity, then simply, bite your biased tongue.

...and then talk football with response to facts presented, not nearly all of which are just cherry picked. Someone makes a mistake in a discussion, point it out, but when it involves integrity and a base dignity, watch out. You then become fair game as well...

 

[CCBoy]

Some of what has been accomplished under Jason Garrett:

2014 season
In the first 8 games to start the season, Murray broke Jim Brown's 1958 NFL rushing record for most consecutive 100 yard games to start the season. The previous record was the first 6 games. In week 15 Murray broke his hand and had surgery the following day. Heavily bandaged, he played in week 16. In week 17, Murray, with his hand still bandaged, rushed for 100 yards to pass Emmitt Smith's Cowboys franchise single season rushing record. Murray finished the season with 1,845 yards to Smith's 1,773 yards.

He also set a Dallas franchise single season rushing record with 12 games rushing 100+ yards. Murray also finished the season as the league's top rusher. He was named to his second Pro Bowl, while having his second straight 1,000 yard season.

For the season, the Dallas offense totaled 6,138 yards for the second-highest figure in franchise history. The club also had eight players selected to the Pro Bowl, including three first timers.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/coaches/roster/jason-garrett

In January 2007, Garrett was hired by the Dallas Cowboys as offensive coordinator. He guided the Cowboys to the 2nd best offense in the NFL, which made him an attractive head coaching prospect.

On January 13, 2015, Jerry Jones and Garrett came down to an agreement of a contract, keeping him in Dallas for 5 more years


This was a power ranking of Head Coaches prior to the start of the 2014 season:

23) Jason Garrett, Dallas Cowboys
Give Garrett credit -- at least he's consistent! Three straight years now, the Cowboys have finished 8-8. And in each of those three years, the 'Boys entered the final game of the season with an opportunity to win the NFC East. Of course, the downside is that Dallas has not been able to pull out any of those Week 17 tilts. (In fairness, Tony Romo was injured for last year's title bout with Philadelphia.) Truth be told, Garrett might have to do his best work ever to get the Cowboys to 8-8 in 2014.
http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap2000000365040

Sound familiar to what is being said today, by many fans?