Next Time we Discuss Dak's Stats

[Ken]

Wentz and Goff are more talented than Dak. That's obvious in watching them play. It's obvious to scouts who spent hundreds of hours watching them. It's obvious in where they were respectively taken. It's obvious in the individual successes they are having.

To argue otherwise is a joke. Dak lacks their accuracy and arm talent. He also processes information incredibly slow in comparison.

I disagree on Wentz, I have stated this case a hundred times on this site.

Goff is playing very well but is also benefiting from a great system and personnel around him.

I have no idea why everyone keeps going to draft profiles and dismissing Dak because of it. It is bizarre. Does anyone go back to Brees' draft profile where he is a 2nd round pick? How about Romo, undrafted. How about Brady etc?

It is silly.

 

[Future]

Lol...quite selective numbers there.

Somehow you managed to ding Dak because he is durable and hasn't been benched or injured like the guys you say are so much better.

YPG is useless as they are in throwing offenses vs the Cowboys run first offense. I believe if you also factor in rushing tds...because those count the same as a pass AND they also take away the possibility of the qb throwing a td in those instances. Add 17 of those to Dak's numbers and 1 and 2 for Goff and Wentz respectively and let me know what you come up with.

Also...while you are at it...let me know how many wins those talent elevating players have and how many games they have won in the clutch.


May also want to include completion percentage and ypp to just get a feel for the innacurate Prescott.

Thanks!

All numbers are selective.

This has nothing to do with his durability.

Completion percentage isn't a measure of accuracy.

Wins are a team stat.

YPG is way more relevant than total yards, when games played isn't equal.

I'm only talking about him as a passer.

 

[Future]

I’m not saying he’s a better anything. What I’m trying to point out is u insert him in them quick pass system he’d wipe them out. Wince and Goff aren’t any better or worse they’re a product of their system. What happened to Goff playing in fishers ancient system? Wentz rookie yr? The difference is their owners saw that and hired coaches to implement systems to their strengths. Jerry? Still stuck on JG. That’s the only difference

It's silly to think that the only diffference between Goff and Dak is the system. Goff can anticipate throws, Dak can't. It is what it is.

Rookie years are the anomaly.

 

[Future]

It has more to do with the type of routes you run on offense and the player catching the ball .

We were ranked 21st in YAC in 2014 .
I guess Romo couldn't throw his receivers open in 2014 .

Of course it does. But it doesn't matter if the ball is constantly thrown late. \

YAC per catch is the stat that matters, not total YAC.

 

[blueblood70]

... Remember Mariota and Monday nights game against the Texans.

Mariota went 22-23 with a perfect passer rating. And yet the Titans were not competitive. This tweet does a good job of explaining why his stats did not match the eye test.



This reminds me of Dak against the Commanders. He was awful essentially the entire game. And yet due to two passes his passer rating was stellar. Eye test > Stats in this case.

As a reminder Dak is 23rd in the NFL in QBR. Top 5? Brees, Mahomes, Rivers, Goff and Wilson in that order.

For added Dak context Joe Flacco and Ryan Fitzpatrick have been better. Fitzpatrick has been benched twice and there is talk Joe has been Wally Pipped. Meanwhile we wouldn't trade Dak for 2 first rounders and are backing up the Brinks truck. Future is bright!

umm wally pipped to a QB with HORRIBLE passing numbers and eye test says he is worse passer then Dak, Jackson throws bad balls , very in accurate.. hes winning with his TEAM and his Feet.. Hes Rg3 mold(throws like Tebow) at this point maybe has chance to be Vick at BEST.. however all this talk on the direction of the NFL pass happy creative offense, Jackson doesnt fit that mold at all..Flacco might be replaced but no way Lamar is better then Dak and I cant see that changing..

Daks issues are pocket awareness, takes too many sacks that are avoidable, doesnt always set his feet when rushed or scrambling..When he does set his feet he has good arm and ive seen very accurate throws..if he ever can improve at all in this department , he will be fine..2 of those 4 first half sacks last week were on him, I was so irritated him spinning with his back turned to the rush to get sacked but then as I was screaming here we go again , hes does the same thing for a scramble TD..

Ive seen Dak over the last 4 weeke, even in the titans loss throw some lasers, that bucket drop to Zeke for that big play early in the season was money, hes hit some downfield throws..hes getting better here, its the pocket awareness and foottechnique that needs the most work..

 

[Future]

Great post

I actually did the math wrong on Dak, fwiw. His number is 219.

Which, same point, but still.

 

[Ken]

All numbers are selective.

Especially yours. I am just using the normal numbers used to measure a qb, not cherry picked that fit my agenda.

This has nothing to do with his durability.

Unfortunately, for you, it does. The great qb prodigy Wentz....was not available when his team needed him most last year. Goff was benched his rookie year because he was terrible and crying like a girl.

Completion percentage isn't a measure of accuracy.

In your world. Show another way to measure it then? Tight window throws? Because Dak has led the NFL in that stat 2 years in a row...

Wins are a team stat.

Except when 12 of them are directly attributed to the qb winning the game in the 4th quarter. I wonder why they track that stat for the qb if it isn't relevant????

YPG is way more relevant than total yards, when games played isn't equal.

Congrats, Wentz threw for more garbage yards.

I'm only talking about him as a passer.

Because it suits your argument. It is intellectually dishonest to discount through this statistic that 17 rushing tds are an important omission that skews the number your are using to pump up your point.

 

[Little Jr]

It's obvious to scouts who spent hundreds of hours watching them. It's obvious in where they were respectively taken.

All your other points were valid and debatable but this one is just silly, that's the most polite way I can put it.

Brees, Wilson, Romo, Warner, Montana, Brady and others say hello. Oh, RG 3, George, Leaf, Russel, Weedon and many others say hello. The other players at other positions who were drafted high because the hours scouts spent on evaluating them and they were busts say hello also. The late round picks who were suppose to be bottom 53 guys and special team guys because of the hours the scouts spent on them but became good /great players also say hello.

I agree that higher round players tend to be the better players but there are WAY TO MANY examples of scouts getting it wrong to use that as a reason why a player is better than the other. Again, just silly.

 

[Little Jr]

It's silly to think that the only diffference between Goff and Dak is the system. Goff can anticipate throws, Dak can't. It is what it is.

Rookie years are the anomaly.

You think it's a coincidence that Goff looked absolutely horrible his rookie year under Fisher and the offensive system they ran, then made one of the biggest, if not the biggest, turn around in nfl history under Mcvay? Do you think he would be doing what he's doing now under Fisher?

 

[Future]

You think it's a coincidence that Goff looked absolutely horrible his rookie year under Fisher and the offensive system they ran, then made one of the biggest, if not the biggest, turn around in nfl history under Mcvay? Do you think he would be doing what he's doing now under Fisher?

I think it has as much to do with the fact that he was a rookie under Fisher as it does with McVay's system. Every QB needs the right OC.

Would Dak do the same thing as Drew Brees in New Orleans? That's basically the argument you're making here.

 

[OmerV]

We will just have to agree to disagree. Deep into a close game Dak had missed several open receivers, taken awful sacks had horrible footwork and had under 150 yards passing and was being out played by a backup QB on a reeling team.

If that's your definition of "Well".....then is anyone bad?

I'm pretty sure all his sacks were in the 1st half, and your 150 yards, again, is based on Dak not even getting credit for the 2 completions at all, much less the after the catch yardage, and also based on those drives ending despite the fact that even without the extra yardage after the catch, those throws would have resulted in 1st downs and the drives would have continued. Even if you are going to discount the yardage after the catch, you can't ignore that there was yardage gained and the drives were not over. As it is, you aren't only ignoring the catch, you are cancelling most of an entire possession. In any case, it still makes no sense to ignore yardage after the catch. If you did that with every QB their yardage totals would decrease dramatically as well.

I find it humorous that you think a QB that threw 3 interceptions, and narrowly missed a couple of others outplayed Dak. That may be the most ridiculous thing you have written.

It's also ridiculous to say it was a close game and Dak was missing passes late in the game. The Cowboys were ahead 31 to 20 and early 4th Quarter and almost exclusively ran the ball each possession in the 4th quarter. They ran the ball 11 out of 13 plays in the 4th quarter.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I'm pretty sure all his sacks were in the 1st half, and your 150 yards, again, is based on Dak not even getting credit for the 2 completions at all, much less the after the catch yardage, and also based on those drives ending despite the fact that even without the extra yardage after the catch, those throws would have resulted in 1st downs and the drives would have continued. Even if you are going to discount the yardage after the catch, you can't ignore that there was yardage gained and the drives were not over. As it is, you aren't only ignoring the catch, you are cancelling most of an entire possession. In any case, it still makes no sense to ignore yardage after the catch. If you did that with every QB their yardage totals would decrease dramatically as well.

I find it humorous that you think a QB that threw 3 interceptions, and narrowly missed a couple of others outplayed Dak. That may be the most ridiculous thing you have written.

It's also ridiculous to say it was a close game and Dak was missing passes late in the game. The Cowboys were ahead 31 to 20 and early 4th Quarter and almost exclusively ran the ball each possession in the 4th quarter. They ran the ball 11 out of 13 plays in the 4th quarter.

You can keep saying it but it won't make it true. I am not disregarding those two completions. I am saying those 2 of 99 passes have an outsized role in Dak's statistics in this 3 game win streak. That more than anything shows that until they become common they are the outliers that prove the rule. 2% of passes should not equate to almost 20% of your TOTAL yards.

Now to my quoted statement... Those td passes were "deep into a close game.". Anyone saying Dak was playing well up to that point is lying.

Anyone who says he played well because of those two passes shouldn't be evaluating qb play for public consumption.

 

[Little Jr]

I think it has as much to do with the fact that he was a rookie under Fisher as it does with McVay's system. Every QB needs the right OC.

Would Dak do the same thing as Drew Brees in New Orleans? That's basically the argument you're making here.

So you think he wouldnt be as good under Fisher but you think he would be in the ball park?

I'm not making any argument lol I was asking a question. I'll answer your question though. Lol

No I don't think Dak would put up numbers like brees in NO system. But not many would. He's one of the best to ever play but I think he would be a much better player in that system.

Every QB needs the right OC, like you said. Dak hasn't got his yet. Goff looked like **** and then got mcvay and had one of the biggest turn arounds ever. I don't think it's a coincidence and he wouldn't be close to what he is if Fisher was still there. Not taking anything away from him but just shows what a great OC can do for a QB. Look at brees, he wasnt this in SD and wasnt close.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

All your other points were valid and debatable but this one is just silly, that's the most polite way I can put it.

Brees, Wilson, Romo, Warner, Montana, Brady and others say hello. Oh, RG 3, George, Leaf, Russel, Weedon and many others say hello. The other players at other positions who were drafted high because the hours scouts spent on evaluating them and they were busts say hello also. The late round picks who were suppose to be bottom 53 guys and special team guys because of the hours the scouts spent on them but became good /great players also say hello.

I agree that higher round players tend to be the better players but there are WAY TO MANY examples of scouts getting it wrong to use that as a reason why a player is better than the other. Again, just silly.

Go look at the starting qbs in the league. Tell me where the preponderance of them were drafted.

I'll wait.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I disagree on Wentz, I have stated this case a hundred times on this site.

Goff is playing very well but is also benefiting from a great system and personnel around him.

I have no idea why everyone keeps going to draft profiles and dismissing Dak because of it. It is bizarre. Does anyone go back to Brees' draft profile where he is a 2nd round pick? How about Romo, undrafted. How about Brady etc?

It is silly.

Go look at all the starting qbs in the league. Tell me where the preponderance of them were drafted.

I'll wait.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Why doesn’t the NFL throw out a few of Daks incompletions and interceptions when figuring his stats?

Wouldn’t that give us a better idea of how he’s playing?

That's not at all what my post suggested. Please proceed to go, collect your $200 and try again.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

This is one more stupid *** post. None of them are having individual success. It’s systematic, team success. What success were Wentz and Goff having in their rookie seasons before their respective teams surrounded them with adequate talent? And as far as your proclaimed arm talent and accuracy? Dak’s is lookin better now that he’s got a legitimate receiver. Give us a TE and he’d do even more.

From a surrounding offensive talent I can't remember a qb who has lived more of a charmed life than Dak has. This Dak needs tools whereas everyone else has them but him is a joke. On aggregate he's had the best offensive line and running game of any young qb maybe ever over his first 3 years. A terrible game against Atlanta doesn't change that.

 

[DogFace]

That's not at all what my post suggested. Please proceed to go, collect your $200 and try again.

Yeeeeeeesss!!! 2 hundy I can use!!!


I thought you said to exclude his two best passes and use your eye balls to judge Dak’s performance.

You also site his QBR. How can I use my eyeballs on his QBR other than reading it?

 

[Direwolf63]

Uh huh.

Well...my side will be getting an extension and a big cobtract to lead this young, talented team far into the playoffs and compete for super bowls for years to come.

Your side will whine the whole time ...lol

Not with this head coach we're not.

 

[Ken]

Wentz and Goff are more talented than Dak. That's obvious in watching them play. It's obvious to scouts who spent hundreds of hours watching them. It's obvious in where they were respectively taken. It's obvious in the individual successes they are having.

To argue otherwise is a joke. Dak lacks their accuracy and arm talent. He also processes information incredibly slow in comparison.

Go look at all the starting qbs in the league. Tell me where the preponderance of them were drafted.

I'll wait.

And?

It means nothing when Brady is a late 6th round pick, Brees is a 2nd rounder, Wilson 3rd rounder, and Romo was undrafted. Best super bowl qb, best TD thrower all time, super bowl winning qb, and cowboys passing leader all not 1st rounders.