NFC East top 10

[Zaxor]

[jdub2k4;1535542]
QB
1. McNabb
2. Romo
3. Manning
4. Johnson

no change

RB
1. Westbrook
2. Portis
3. Jones
4. Barber III

I think Jacobs is gonna be a fine runner and I would put a Jones/Barber combo at the 3 spot with Jacobs at 4 and a ? by Portis

WR
1. Owens
2. Burress
3. Glenn
4. Moss

I would rate each of the teams top 3 wrs i.e. (TO/Glenn/Crayton) as Dallas, NYG, WR, PE

TE
1. Shockey
2. Witten
3. Cooley
4. Smith

Shockey is W A Y overrated and goes to the bottom and move each of the others up a notch.

Oline
1. Washington
2. New York
3. Philadelphia
4. Dallas

Disagree I think PE has the best O-line in the east followed by Dallas, Wash, NYG... the tackle play for Wash has not been what it once was and now they lost Dockery who I thought was their best lineman last year.

Dline
1. New York
2. Philadelphia
3. Dallas
4. Washington

Disagree I think PE has the best Dline followed by NYG, Dallas, Wash

LB
1. Ware
2. Fletcher
3. Kiwanuka
4. Trotter

as a group I would go Dallas, Wash, PE, NYG

CB
1. Newman
2. Sheppard
3. Madison
4. Henry

FS
1. Dawkins
2. Taylor
3. Hamlin
4. Demps

SS
1. Williams
2. Wilson
3. Considine
4. Landry (default)

as a group I say Dallas, PE, Wash, NYG

P
1. McBriar
2. Johnson
3. Feagles
4. Frost

K
1. Akers
2. Gramatica
3. Tynes
4. Suisham

ST PE, Dallas, Wash, NYG

 

[tomson75]

as a group I would go Dallas, Wash, PE, NYG

After Fletcher, the Commanders have exactly bubkus at LB. McIntosh? Nope.

...but maybe that badarse Dallas Sartz will resurect their LB corps.

Anyway, the Commanders belong at the bottom of that list IMO.

 

[Green28]

After Fletcher, the Commanders have exactly bubkus at LB. McIntosh? Nope.

Marcus Washington.

Bueller? Bueller?

 

[tomson75]

Marcus Washington.

Bueller? Bueller?

Meh. If you say so...I'd say average.

 

[cobra]

Campbell was more of a on-field manager asked to minimize risk and mistakes, hence the low INT number and number of throw-aways.

Ahh, so he was supposed to be a low risk bus driver why Romo was a gunslinger. That might explain why Romo's average ypc and overall yards are so much better. Ok, but how does that explain the fact that "gunslinger" Romo had a 65.3% completion percentage while "low risk" Campbell had a whopping 53.1% completion percentage. One would think that the low risk guy would have a much higher completion percentage. But by your own argument, the team wasn't asking him to do much, but he still could only complete barely 50% of his passes.

Campbell has terrible accuracy problems. Again, at this point he is basically Quincy Carter. Commanders are desperately believing that the problem will fix itself, but it's not a guarantee. Regardless, it's pretty piss poor that Campbell wasn't asked to do much but he still couldn't complete more than 53% of his passes (which puts about 65th in the league in accuracy behind even god awful Andrew Walter). Regardless of what the system is like, completion percentage is a pretty accurate indicator of individual ability.

Both are very talented players in different situations.

Campbell is talented? How so? He was 2-5, a horrible accuracy/completion percentage, and averaged less than 200 yards per game.

See, this is further proof of how homerific Commanders are. They actually believe that you could look at what Romo did last year and what Campbell did last year and not see Romo as clearly better and more promising than Campbell.

All Campbell is right now is potential. But potential is not always realized. Quincy Carter never improved. Nor did Ryan Leaf. At least Romo can say he showed it at one point in time. Campbell has never shown the goods across an entire game. Yet Skins fans are certain there is no difference between the two.

Get real.

 

[Zaxor]

After Fletcher, the Commanders have exactly bubkus at LB. McIntosh? Nope.

...but maybe that badarse Dallas Sartz will resurect their LB corps.

Anyway, the Commanders belong at the bottom of that list IMO.

Marcus Washington had a terrible year last year (mainly because the DT's)
but I'm willing to bet he has a better season this year...

also its hard to put either PE or NYG second...

in Philly its Trotter and who? and Trotter isn't what he was

than in NY its uhm...its..... ah... geez I would have to go and look at their roster its that bad

 

[stilltheguru]

Marcus Washington had a terrible year last year (mainly because the DT's)
but I'm willing to bet he has a better season this year...

also its hard to put either PE or NYG second...

in Philly its Trotter and who? and Trotter isn't what he was

than in NY its uhm...its..... ah... geez I would have to go and look at their roster its that bad

trotter and spikes?lol at people forgetting about takeo spikes.smh

 

[Green28]

Ahh, so he was supposed to be a low risk bus driver why Romo was a gunslinger. That might explain why Romo's average ypc and overall yards are so much better. Ok, but how does that explain the fact that "gunslinger" Romo had a 65.3% completion percentage while "low risk" Campbell had a whopping 53.1% completion percentage. One would think that the low risk guy would have a much higher completion percentage. But by your own argument, the team wasn't asking him to do much, but he still could only complete barely 50% of his passes.

Campbell has terrible accuracy problems. Again, at this point he is basically Quincy Carter. Commanders are desperately believing that the problem will fix itself, but it's not a guarantee. Regardless, it's pretty piss poor that Campbell wasn't asked to do much but he still couldn't complete more than 53% of his passes (which puts about 65th in the league in accuracy behind even god awful Andrew Walter). Regardless of what the system is like, completion percentage is a pretty accurate indicator of individual ability.

Campbell is talented? How so? He was 2-5, a horrible accuracy/completion percentage, and averaged less than 200 yards per game.

See, this is further proof of how homerific Commanders are. They actually believe that you could look at what Romo did last year and what Campbell did last year and not see Romo as clearly better and more promising than Campbell.

All Campbell is right now is potential. But potential is not always realized. Quincy Carter never improved. Nor did Ryan Leaf. At least Romo can say he showed it at one point in time. Campbell has never shown the goods across an entire game. Yet Skins fans are certain there is no difference between the two.

Get real.

If you watched the games, you would see how many balls Campbell threw away to avoid INTs.

 

[Green28]

Marcus Washington had a terrible year last year (mainly because the DT's)
but I'm willing to bet he has a better season this year...

also its hard to put either PE or NYG second...

in Philly its Trotter and who? and Trotter isn't what he was

than in NY its uhm...its..... ah... geez I would have to go and look at their roster its that bad

MW played injured since the Houston game early in the season. He finally missed the last 2 games and had hip surgery in the offseason. He just got back on the field 2 weeks ago.

 

[JonJon]

I think McNabb is overrated, but this stands until Romo proves himself for a full season. I'd also think about putting Cambell on this list...it's early, but he's got some talent.

I agree. McNabb kind of took this one by default. Romo isn't tested enough to take the #1 spot. McNabb would be one of the best in the league if he could stay healthy and not choke in clutch situations. Manning is overhyped because of his brother's success and will never get from under his shadow. Romo has plenty of potential and can take the #1 spot with a solid season and some post season victories.

I'd flip Burress and Moss.

I did have Moss at #2 at first, but I switched due to Moss not having much success last season as he did in previous years. Burress made some big catches for the Giants last season in clutch situations.

All very good TE's here, but I'd put Shockey behind Witten. Close group though.

The only reason Witten isn't #1 is because Shockey out produced Witten stat wise last season. Shockey had 7 TDs whole Witten only had 1 TD.

NY's oline is not very good IMO. I'd put them last. I'd put Dallas at #3, but we definitely have the potential to take the #2 spot this year.

I agree about Dallas having the potential to be better, but the unit still has to prove themselves on the field. This entire list should look different by the end of the season.

Seriously? If Hamlin doesn't play better than Taylor did last year, we're in for a long, dissapointing season. He's all-talent, but not all-pro. I'd flip Taylor and Hamlin.

The only knock that I have against Hamlin is that I am not sure he has recovered entirely from that head injury. If he had, then I don't think the Seahawks would have let him go. We will see. I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[tomson75]

Marcus Washington had a terrible year last year (mainly because the DT's)
but I'm willing to bet he has a better season this year...

also its hard to put either PE or NYG second...

in Philly its Trotter and who? and Trotter isn't what he was

than in NY its uhm...its..... ah... geez I would have to go and look at their roster its that bad

Takeo Spikes would probably disagree with you. He's no longer in his prime, but is still an damn good football player.

You can argue that the skins now have a better linebacking corps than the giants...Antonio Pierce has seen his best days go by, and Fletcher is a big addition, but they are no match for the eagles LB's.

 

[cobra]

If you watched the games, you would see how many balls Campbell threw away to avoid INTs.

HAHAHAHAHAH

You guys are amazing. So his completion percentage was 65th or so in the league (of 32 teams) because he threw so many balls away to avoid interceptions. Excellent. So was he avoiding INTs on 47% of his passes? Or was it more 42%.

I would have a mild heart attack if I ever met a Commanders fan who honestly could say "Yes, JC didn't look very good last year and never showed anything special. While he has good potential based on his athleticism and what appears to be good poise, he has a lot of things he needs to fix before he can reach that potential. So right now, he is just a giant question mark as he has never shown anything special. Hopefully he will get better, but if he doesn't, then he is a bust."

No, instead Commanders fans want to argue that JC's crappy performance last year is actually a good sign for his future.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Would you rather have him for the next 10 years or Dawkins for the next 2?

I'd rather have Dawkins, right this minute. He's perhaps the best Safety in the game. Landry, while very promising, has proven zero. Right this minute, I'd rather have Dawkins.

 

[tomson75]

I agree. McNabb kind of took this one by default. Romo isn't tested enough to take the #1 spot. McNabb would be one of the best in the league if he could stay healthy and not choke in clutch situations. Manning is overhyped because of his brother's success and will never get from under his shadow. Romo has plenty of potential and can take the #1 spot with a solid season and some post season victories.

We all have our fingers crossed.

I did have Moss at #2 at first, but I switched due to Moss not having much success last season as he did in previous years. Burress made some big catches for the Giants last season in clutch situations.

This is true. I think Moss was hemmed up for most of last year though...it wouldn't surprise me to see him return to his old form.

The only reason Witten isn't #1 is because Shockey out produced Witten stat wise last season. Shockey had 7 TDs whole Witten only had 1 TD.

I think this is a case where the stats don't tell the whole story...and I think Witten's stats are going to be quite impressive this year. This talk of increasing Witten's verticle presence stokes me.

I agree about Dallas having the potential to be better, but the unit still has to prove themselves on the field. This entire list should look different by the end of the season.

I agree. Our success this year on offense is going to weigh heavily on whether or not Jerry made the right move with Leonard Davis.

The only knock that I have against Hamlin is that I am not sure he has recovered entirely from that head injury. If he had, then I don't think the Seahawks would have let him go. We will see. I hope he proves me wrong.

Understandable, but I think he's still an improvement over what we've had back there since Woodson retired. I still have hopes for Watkins...he's got the talent, but I'm glad we got Hamlin.

...and by all reports, Hamlin has been practicing very well.

As far as Taylor goes, barring DeAngelo Hall, he might be the most overrated DB in the NFL. He was horrid last year. He gets big hits, and these ******** Skins fans up here go ape****...cheering and whatnot...the next play he'll give up a 40 yard pass because he missed his coverage assignment. Go figure. I wouldn't want him on my team, regardless of his athleticism.

 

[JonJon]

HAHAHAHAHAH

You guys are amazing. So his completion percentage was 65th or so in the league (of 32 teams) because he threw so many balls away to avoid interceptions. Excellent. So was he avoiding INTs on 47% of his passes? Or was it more 42%.

I would have a mild heart attack if I ever met a Commanders fan who honestly could say "Yes, JC didn't look very good last year and never showed anything special. While he has good potential based on his athleticism and what appears to be good poise, he has a lot of things he needs to fix before he can reach that potential. So right now, he is just a giant question mark as he has never shown anything special. Hopefully he will get better, but if he doesn't, then he is a bust."

No, instead Commanders fans want to argue that JC's crappy performance last year is actually a good sign for his future.

I agree, which is why Campbell is behind Brad Johnson on my top QB list. If I had to have either Johnson or Campbell, it would be Johnson. Campbell is too much of an unproven commodity now.

 

[zeromaster]

<snip>
How's about waiting until the guy does anything before you start saying he is the top in the division. Potential means crap. <snip>

Well the OP on this thread doesn't want to hear that about Landry.

 

[Fletch]

(Only 2 more months)
Taking everything into account. Injuries(McNabb) age(Strahan) miscellaneous (T.O)

1. Westbrook
2. Romo
3. Portis
4. Newman
5. Ware
6. Osi Umenyiora
7. Shawn Andrews
8. Chris Snee
9. Laron Landry
10. Mcnabb

How on earth can LaRon Landry even be mentioned being that he hasn't even begun his rookie season. Heck, he hasn't even gone to his first training camp.

I'm not knocking you, just your mention of Landry in the top ten.

 

[WarC]

LOL @ people criticising ES for being homer-ific.

Pot. Meet Mr. Kettle.

You ever spent some quality time 'round those parts?

This board is downright skeptical compared to that lot. :laugh2:

 

[firehawk350]

You guys are amazing. So his completion percentage was 65th or so in the league (of 32 teams) because he threw so many balls away to avoid interceptions. Excellent. So was he avoiding INTs on 47% of his passes? Or was it more 42%.

Or maybe it's because throwing to Washington's receivers is pretty difficult. You've got all these lightning fast receivers that are tiny and you have no timing with them in a timing based offense that is your 6th in 6 years, your not going to complete as many passes as Romo did with TO (did you notice speedster Glenn's production dropped off BTW) and Crayton, both of whom are bigger.

For those playing along at home, picture trying to shoot a tiny pigeon in flight vs. trying to hit a deer. The deer may be just as fast, but is a considerably easier target because of size.

I would have a mild heart attack if I ever met a Commanders fan who honestly could say "Yes, JC didn't look very good last year and never showed anything special. While he has good potential based on his athleticism and what appears to be good poise, he has a lot of things he needs to fix before he can reach that potential. So right now, he is just a giant question mark as he has never shown anything special. Hopefully he will get better, but if he doesn't, then he is a bust."

No, instead Commanders fans want to argue that JC's crappy performance last year is actually a good sign for his future.

I don't think any Commanders fan can say he had a good year. He had a mediocre year but considering the circumstances (that I outlined above), there are reasons for hope. He showed a good deal of mobility and can gain yards in tough situations with his legs (reference a particular run against the NYG). He seems to be a smart guy and shows good poise. Much has been made about the 66 yard TD throw to Cooley that his earpiece went out in his helmet and called the play himself. He has been at Commanders Park for the entire offseason and will visit Moss in Miami with some other receivers to work on timing.

So like I said, we can't look statistically at the year JC had and think, wow, time for the big show, but we can look at the signs that are encouraging and saying, he could be REAL good.

Anyways, the Quincy Carter example is kind of bunk anyways, your comparing them statistically, but one was a crackhead and the other spends his time studying the playbook and working with the coaches.

 

[5Stars]

For those playing along at home, picture trying to shoot a tiny pigeon in flight vs. trying to hit a deer. The deer may be just as fast, but is a considerably easier target because of size..

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: OMG! What will be the next EXTREME thing out of your mouth?