NFL Network Top Ten Meltdowns - Romo number 9

[Sammy Baugh]

Let me rephrase that.

Romo has a career rating of 94.7, which ties Manning for the highest active career passer rating.

I agree that Manning and Brady are better quarterbacks than Tony Romo, but it's a fallacious notion that only Cowboy "homers" could possibly rank Romo among the top 5 NFL quarterbacks. Romo's career passer rating provides ample evidence for this assertion, and reasonable arguments can be made on both sides of the debate.

I appreciate your stats and I'm not really arguing against you. But in my experience there are very few folks outside of Cowboys-land who rate Romo in the top 5, regardless of what stats say. I've seen several such top 5 lists, such as those from the NFL Network, and haven't seen one which includes Romo in the top 5. Now maybe all those lists are wrong - I'm not saying that they are right - I'm simply saying that Romo does not seem to make such lists.

Perhaps I should have just held my tongue, since my claim was a very soft claim. But I have enjoyed the conversation.

 

[Sammy Baugh]

You're not pointing out any fallacies. You're missing the point of the argument you got yourself into. The debate isn't about merit (though we could have that debate, too), it's about how the player is perceived.

Nobody's changing the argument on you by bringing up probowls. The fact is, whether you like it or not probowl appearances measure how a player is perceived outside of Cowboyland. You may disregard that estimation, and that's fine. But that's not the point you were debating, Sammy.

My original point was about top 5 quarterbacks, which quite definitely is about merit.

 

[PBJTime]

I don't know anyone outside of Cowboys-land who makes that claim.

I thought this was a point that you brought up? If you have separate discussions going on, that's one thing, but this is what he is referring to.

 

[DallasEast]

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/PROBOWLVOTING.png

"The AFC and NFC All-Star squads are made up of the consensus votes of fans, players and coaches. Each group's vote counts one-third towards determining the 43-man rosters that represent the American Football Conference and National Football Conference in the Pro Bowl." - NFL.com

 

[Boyzmamacita]

Isn't 0-16 a meltdown of epic proportions? How could they forget that? It is recent history.

 

[AsthmaField]

No, I am not arguing that, to this point, Campbell has been a better QB than Romo.

That's a good thing for your mental health.

Campbell has changed systems often. With a second year in the WCO, he may go downfield much more this year. It took Favre and Hasselbeck a few years each to master the WCO; Campbell so far has had only one.

Only 1 in the pro's. He's also had it one year in college. So he has already had twice the time in a WCO as Matt Ryan has had in the Falcon's system. And twice as much as Romo had in Garrett's system in 2007. Both QB's seemed to do ok in their first year in a new system. In fact, in 07 Romo had an MVP type season in his first year in a new system.

Further, Campbell is young and has upside for improvement. The future Campbell therefore may be much better than the past Campbell.

Campbell is one year younger than Romo. One. Look it up. So it goes to reason that the best for Romo probably lies ahead.

Not good for non-Cowboy fans.

But the argument began over a "top-five qb" distinction. When making that distinction, future hopes do not count, only past performance. In this light I would be hard-pressed to argue that Campbell is better than Romo, so I am not arguing that.

I brought it up only because you were mentioning how important it is for QB's to remain mistake free... and that is exactly what Campbell focuses on, apparently. So, it would stand to reason that if you find that so important and that Campbell does it and Romo doesn't... that you would think Campbell the better QB.

I suppose not.

I'll take the QB that takes some chances and moves his team up and down the field.

 

[Wood]

I do think calling Romo "Mr. December" (in a contra way) is appropriate at this stage. Again...this is not a flattering term as it was with Reggie Jackson who was called Mr. October for his clutch hitting in playoffs.

 

[Sammy Baugh]

I thought this was a point that you brought up? If you have separate discussions going on, that's one thing, but this is what he is referring to.

Ok, although I disagree with ldgit's line of thought, I'll go with it.

Romo was not selected to the Pro Bowl last year. Therefore, if the Pro Bowl is a perception of one's capabilities, the greater USA does not consider Romo in the top 3 in the NFC, much less the top 5 in the NFL.

So, back to my point: Romo is not considered a top 5 qb in the NFL in the broad perspective.

 

[Wood]

I dont think any QB should be in top 5 who hasn't won a playoff games. QB ratings are nice to look at but really are not indicative to a QB ability to lead in team late in the year when defenses tighten down and home crowd really becomes a factor.

 

[Sammy Baugh]

I do think calling Romo "Mr. December" (in a contra way) is appropriate at this stage. Again...this is not a flattering term as it was with Reggie Jackson who was called Mr. October for his clutch hitting in playoffs.

Mr. Non-December?

 

[AsthmaField]

I appreciate your stats and I'm not really arguing against you. But in my experience there are very few folks outside of Cowboys-land who rate Romo in the top 5, regardless of what stats say.

And the opinions of the people in your circles couldn't possibly be negatively biased towards Tony Romo, could they? You mean to tell me that Commanders fans actually don't rank Romo highly? Gettouttahere!

Stats don't mean everything, as we all know. However, they do tell a good portion of the story. When a QB is putting up the yards and TD's that Romo has been doing since he came into the league... it means you have a damn good QB on your hands.

I've seen several such top 5 lists, such as those from the NFL Network, and haven't seen one which includes Romo in the top 5. Now maybe all those lists are wrong - I'm not saying that they are right - I'm simply saying that Romo does not seem to make such lists.

ESPN, NFL Network, etc. all pay primary attention to the most recent season. That does make sense, but is isn't going to always tell you what type of overall career a QB is going to have. Nearly every QB has seasons that aren't up to their typical standards. Last year Romo was hurt for a good part, had an O line that was constantly in flux and was in a season that was doomed from the very start by controversy, bad chemistry and chaos. Yet he still did well. Even with a broken finger on his throwing hand he had a good season.

That should tell you what kind of player he is.

It is understandable why networks are putting him further down the list, but to think that he won't return to what he did in 06/07 is naive.

 

[Wood]

Mr Non-December

sure or maybe even Mr. Down December

 

[Dodger12]

You continue to argue that a Pro Bowl berth determines whether you are in the top-5 at you position league-wide. That is logically fallacious, for reasons already indicated.

The Pro Bowl is a determining factor and the measuring stick of who the best players are at their respective positions. As Idgit mentioned earlier, coaches and peers also vote for the Pro Bowl It's not simply fan dominated. When someone wants to debate who the best is (or one of the best), then Pro Bowls count. Quite simply, you can't claim to be a top 5 QB and not have the respect of your coaches, peers and NFL fans (ie: Pro Bowl). That is logical and, even more, it's common sense.

Further, no one argued about "who you would take," the argument was about "top-5." There is a difference.

That's part of the argument. You said you didn't know anyone outside of Cowboy-land who makes the claim that Romo's a top 5 QB. I pointed to the facts of who the best QB's were during Romo's carreer as a starter and I asked who would you take. It's pretty simple and there's no semantics involved. I used the Pro Bowl as a measuring stick because it's the standard by which players are judged against their peers. Do you think non-Cowboys fans would take Garcia, Andersen, Hasselback, Vince Young or Kerry Collins over Romo?

But, to slice through all the ADHD which has appeared in recent posts, let me stick to the issue and post a top five:
Brady
Manning
Rivers
Brees
Rodgers

Please note that Rodgers in 2008 had more yards, more TD's, fewer interceptions, and a better QB rating than Romo, despite the fact that Rodgers was in his first year as a starter.

You can't be serious. Using your own argument (since you're putting Rodgers in the top 5), is there anyone outside of Green Bay land that would take Rodgers straight up over Romo? Yes, the same Rodgers that led his team to a 6 and 10 record and had all of Green Bay cursing the franchise for letting Brett Farve go. Yes, the same Green Bay that booed their starting QB? Having said that and giving it a second thought as I type, I'm not even sure Green Bay fans would take Rodgers over Romo.

And by the way, Chad Pendington was the #2 rated passer in the NFL last year. Is he a top 5 QB?

 

[SLATEmosphere]

Someone find Rodgers 4th quater stats. They are terrible.

 

[Wood]

"Last year Romo was hurt for a good part, had an O line that was constantly in flux and was in a season that was doomed from the very start by controversy, bad chemistry and chaos."

Your making excuses for the guy. His ill timed poor play are not exclusive to last year...this goes back to Seattle playoff games and continues thru last year. Romo has a monkey on his back....and every football observer knows it. Its up to him to remove it. I think alot of you are in for a shock this year when Kitna leads this team (similar to what happend in Philadelphia with Garcia coming off bench to lead eagles into playoffs to deligh of eagle fans who observed a true leader and not primadonna that McNabb had become)...the similarities are in place.

 

[Dodger12]

Ok, although I disagree with ldgit's line of thought, I'll go with it.

Romo was not selected to the Pro Bowl last year. Therefore, if the Pro Bowl is a perception of one's capabilities, the greater USA does not consider Romo in the top 3 in the NFC, much less the top 5 in the NFL.

So, back to my point: Romo is not considered a top 5 qb in the NFL in the broad perspective.

Neither did Rodgers or Rivers yet you still had them in your top 5.

 

[Sammy Baugh]

Neither did Rodgers or Rivers yet you still had them in your top 5.

I said that I disagreed with that line of thought, didn't I?

 

[CF74]

He was a rookie. What the hell is wrong with you? You Romo defenders are going to all time lows now, seriously.

Gosh!!!

 

[Sammy Baugh]

The Pro Bowl is a determining factor and the measuring stick of who the best players are at their respective positions. As Idgit mentioned earlier, coaches and peers also vote for the Pro Bowl It's not simply fan dominated. When someone wants to debate who the best is (or one of the best), then Pro Bowls count. Quite simply, you can't claim to be a top 5 QB and not have the respect of your coaches, peers and NFL fans (ie: Pro Bowl). That is logical and, even more, it's common sense.



That's part of the argument. You said you didn't know anyone outside of Cowboy-land who makes the claim that Romo's a top 5 QB. I pointed to the facts of who the best QB's were during Romo's carreer as a starter and I asked who would you take. It's pretty simple and there's no semantics involved. I used the Pro Bowl as a measuring stick because it's the standard by which players are judged against their peers. Do you think non-Cowboys fans would take Garcia, Andersen, Hasselback, Vince Young or Kerry Collins over Romo?



You can't be serious. Using your own argument (since you're putting Rodgers in the top 5), is there anyone outside of Green Bay land that would take Rodgers straight up over Romo? Yes, the same Rodgers that led his team to a 6 and 10 record and had all of Green Bay cursing the franchise for letting Brett Farve go. Yes, the same Green Bay that booed their starting QB? Having said that and giving it a second thought as I type, I'm not even sure Green Bay fans would take Rodgers over Romo.

And by the way, Chad Pendington was the #2 rated passer in the NFL last year. Is he a top 5 QB?

The Pro Bowl is widely regarded as a popularity contest, not a true measuring stick.

As for Green Bay, there are actually tons of intelligent Packers fans who realize that 6-10 may have had more to do with a rotten defense, not Rodgers.

 

[Sammy Baugh]

And the opinions of the people in your circles couldn't possibly be negatively biased towards Tony Romo, could they? You mean to tell me that Commanders fans actually don't rank Romo highly? Gettouttahere!

Stats don't mean everything, as we all know. However, they do tell a good portion of the story. When a QB is putting up the yards and TD's that Romo has been doing since he came into the league... it means you have a damn good QB on your hands.

ESPN, NFL Network, etc. all pay primary attention to the most recent season. That does make sense, but is isn't going to always tell you what type of overall career a QB is going to have. Nearly every QB has seasons that aren't up to their typical standards. Last year Romo was hurt for a good part, had an O line that was constantly in flux and was in a season that was doomed from the very start by controversy, bad chemistry and chaos. Yet he still did well. Even with a broken finger on his throwing hand he had a good season.

That should tell you what kind of player he is.

It is understandable why networks are putting him further down the list, but to think that he won't return to what he did in 06/07 is naive.

I actually did not cite Commanders fans, although certainly they tend to not think much about Romo. I cited NFL Network as one source. Football Outsiders is another source. There are more. You can't say such sources are "objective" - everyone has an opinion - but I was citing sources more objective than just a pool of Commanders fans. And while ESPN, NFL Network, etc., could or could not be terribly mistaken, the fact is that they do not cite Romo as a top 5 qb. That is all I said.

As for your point that Romo is a good qb, I openly agreed in a post above. Not top 5, but good.